All possible defensive stats for Al please.

[MattyP]

Additionally, I can't reference any stats but (as you may know) Haralabos Voulgaris named Al as an honorable mention to his 2010 All Non Defensive Team. If you read the article, Al was closely edged out by Andrea Bargnani.

http://aloneinthecorner.com/post/527082424/2010-all-non-defensive-team

[funkatron101]

i don't mean to be the guy with the porcupine at the baloon parade, but no matter what your stats say he's still isn't going to be an ideal defensive player. He's a short center and he's an unathletic PF in addition to him really just lacking effort at that end. I love Al and I hope we keep him, but regardless of any numbers you have that say he's decent, I still expect way more from him.

I will never label him as a defensive force. This is more of a comparison to other players. Other teams fans are saying "no way" to Al Jefferson trade because they only want a "defensive center."

So what really constitutes a defensive center? How does big Al compare and how many of these players are actually in the league? It seems like fans balk at anything less than Dwight Howard. Well, if Al was Dwight Howard, we wouldn't consider trading him.

[Narf]

Quick, now everyone look up Brook Lopez's stats!

[funkatron101]

If we go by this DRtg criteria, these guys stand out as being "worse" than Al Jefferson:
Carmelo Anthony
Amare Stoudemire
Rudy Gay
David West
Chris Bosh
Chris Kaman
Brook Lopez

Also, virtually every forward/center on the Kings ranks below Al.

[IAmTheTruth]

I'm not trading Al unless it's for Wes Johnson or someone already proven like Iggy. It'd be better to keep him and see what he's got next season after a full summer of healthy training. Don't sell low when just over a year ago this guy was nigh untouchable.

[LordBaldric]

Big Al isn't turning into this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDHDg5pPrOc

But I'd still rather ride him out (and Love) than get robbed by a penny on the dollar trade!

[jade_hippo]

I will never label him as a defensive force. This is more of a comparison to other players. Other teams fans are saying "no way" to Al Jefferson trade because they only want a "defensive center."

So what really constitutes a defensive center? How does big Al compare and how many of these players are actually in the league? It seems like fans balk at anything less than Dwight Howard. Well, if Al was Dwight Howard, we wouldn't consider trading him.

I'm not even saying Al is the problem. Its that his defensive shortcomings COMPOUND the teams defensive problems. You mention DHo, look at their defensive schemes at their heart, are pretty much designed to have the guys on the outside prevent 3pt attempts and let the slashers take their chances with Howard playing to his strengths.

What exactly does Jefferson bring to the table that helps on defense? He needs role players to cover for him, just like D-Ho needs them on offense. Jefferson is a mismatch waiting to happen. Shoot over him because he's short, go around him because he's slow, pick and roll him because he has bad footwork and isn't good at rotating, send cutters/slashers because he isn't good help defender... surround him with something like Hinrich Iggy Brewer and Darko and now you're looking at a team who can keep some of the penetration out of the land and be beefy enough to clog it with enough help to cover, that Jefferson being a bad defender doesn't matter as much.

[slinky]

http://www.raptorblog.com/100422b.php

I have thrown this around in other threads before...

I completely agree with the premise of what funk is trying to say, in fact I just said it yesterday in a post that I think Jefferson is closer to average defensively than he is closer to the 'horrible', which is what he is portrayed as on these boards.

But as what was mentioned earlier, none of these show his help defense. Now I for one, am much more of a stay in front of your man and limit his scoring kind of guy, rather than a high flying try to block everything guy...but for example, after a very long conversation with some GSW fans(one in particular who will remain NAMELESS) Andris Biedrins is considered a better defender than Jefferson because Biedrins alters more shots. Nothing to do with man defense or opponents production against...so while I think in reality, Jefferson is somewhere between below-average and average...you will have a hard time fighting the current 'perception' of him on these boards

[Dewey]

Well our team had 15 wins, so I think it's safe to say Al (amongst others) is not above average. Personally, the only way I want Jefferson staying is if we draft Favors who's more of a defensive style player and adds some degree of athleticism. Al and Milicic are just not worth keeping around and risking more of the same ... not to rehash, but a 2-30 something record with Milicic/Jefferson on the floor is not the answer. We need to move forward and TRY to make some fundamental changes.

The question still remains ... Will improving our perimeter defense improve our interior defense? If anyone knows the answer, they can solve half of all the other issues posted on these boards.

[TrentTuckerForever]

I think in reality, Jefferson is somewhere between below-average and average...you will have a hard time fighting the current 'perception' of him on these boards

Agree. I wish McHale, who played on great defensive Celtic teams, had understood this. The only defensive player (or player with the potential to become above-average defensively) he added post-KG was Brewer. Everyone else was stronger on offense, or specialists. Imagine if the post-KG Wolves had been built with defenders around Jefferson, like the Celtics did with Bird (who was a good but not great defender, especially later in his career.)

Anyway, on to the next rebuild - the other factor to consider is Jefferson's health. We all agree that the injury didn't effect his offense much because Jefferson's post game is about fakes and countermoves, not athleticism. But how much did it effect his defense? And more to the point, how much better will he look on that end a year + removed from the achilles surgery?

[slinky]

I havent seen anyone call Jefferson 'above average' defensively. The point though is in relation to other players who are deemed defensive players. Is Al Jefferson that much worse defensively than Chris Kaman or Andris Biedrins? Both guys who have better defensive 'reputations' than Al Jefferson. On the trade board, especially Jefferson's value gets canned because he is defensively horrible, and team's would rather have a 'defensive big.'

So the question is how many of those actually exist? Our board is living proof, if you look at the numbers Darko wasn't that great this year defensively, but all of a sudden he is our defensive anchor(and some want like 3 year deals for him). Now obviously, there may have been some other factors with Darko(new to system, out of shape, etc), but I think this lends to Baldric's point and Dewey's question, that if there arent that many defensive bigs available(because every team wants/needs one) than it seems best to keep Jefferson and improve the defense around him.

The question still remains ... Will improving our perimeter defense improve our interior defense? If anyone knows the answer, they can solve half of all the other issues posted on these boards.

I think the answer is yes. Cause it will at least minimize the deficiencies in the interior defense. My question though is...is it easier to improve perimeter defense or interior defense?

[mandurugo]

Advanced stats are a bit questionable on offense, but I don't think there is one worth mentioning on defense. I don't think you will find one that will let you meaningfully compare players in the league.

[moss_is_1]

I think in reality, Jefferson is somewhere between below-average and average...you will have a hard time fighting the current 'perception' of him on these boards

Agree. I wish McHale, who played on great defensive Celtic teams, had understood this. The only defensive player (or player with the potential to become above-average defensively) he added post-KG was Brewer. Everyone else was stronger on offense, or specialists. Imagine if the post-KG Wolves had been built with defenders around Jefferson, like the Celtics did with Bird (who was a good but not great defender, especially later in his career.)

Anyway, on to the next rebuild - the other factor to consider is Jefferson's health. We all agree that the injury didn't effect his offense much because Jefferson's post game is about fakes and countermoves, not athleticism. But how much did it effect his defense? And more to the point, how much better will he look on that end a year + removed from the achilles surgery?

I think it did affect his offense, because it affected his conditioning. He still didn't have that same explosiveness either. He would pump and go to blow by people but he couldn't do it as easily this year. I really hope Kahn doesn't sell short on Al, because he was arguably the best post player on offense in 08-09 before tearing his acl.