Time to move Marcum?

Relentless88 · Post #1 » by **Relentless88** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:07 pm

He's having a good year but he's also turning 29 in December. This team isn't going to be contending for at least 2-3 more years. Since we have a lot of pitching depth, maybe it's time to deal Marcum for some positional prospects? What do you think?

Randle McMurphy · Post #2 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:39 pm

I would be fine with it, provided they could get something of significant value. Don't really want to give Marcum a long-term contract into his mid-30s.

I wanted to deal Hill and Lind in the winter, but that ship seems to have sailed for now.

satyr9 · Post #3 » by **satyr9** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:56 pm

He's definitely the guy to move sometime before the deadline IMO. I'd want real value 'cause there's no rush, but my guess is that offer will be out there if AA wants to pull the trigger. I was all for moving Hill too, but I'm happy keeping Lind. He's struggling, but he's a reasonable deal and I think most seasons you'll see 25-30HR and a .800-.850 OPS out of him. Now, if someone had wanted to give value well beyond that last offseason, I would've moved him, but I doubt the deal was out there. JMO obviously.

Post #4 » by **OldNo7** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:15 pm

I would rather move Lind than Hill, DH is a much easier hole to plug. But I was actually thinking about the Marcum possibility yesterday due to age and the amount of pitchers in our system. It would be nice to get a 3B of the future out of him somehow.

Griff83 · Post #5 » by **Griff83** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:26 pm

Move him out to a team in the West. He would dominate in a division like the NL West.

Colorado has a solid team that could use some starting pitching.

Shaun Marcum for Ian Stewart. He would be a nice player to fill that void over at 3B and he's only 25. Not sure they would do it but they could badly use a frontline starter to pitch behind Jiminez.

Michael Bradley · Post #6 » by **Michael Bradley** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:28 pm

Marcum has two more years of service time after this season. I would be more inclined to extend him to a modest deal than trade him. He is a very good pitcher, and locking him up creates cost certainty for not only the Jays but also for any team that would trade for him if he were to be moved down the road. Lock him up now, let him have one or two more good seasons, and then move him should some of the younger pitchers start to prove themselves.

Just because Rzep, Drabek, Stewart, Alvarez, etc, are close, doesn't mean the Jays should be trading away their best pitchers to accomodate them. Make sure we know what we have with them before throwing them into the fire.

Marcum probably won't be around or be this good when the Jays are expected to compete, but that doesn't mean you trade him right now. Pitching is so unpredictable. The Rays were comfortable trading Kazmir when they had a rough idea of what to expect from Price, Niemann, and Davis. I wouldn't deal Marcum until I am comfortable with Drabek, et al.

Kurtz · Post #7 » by **Kurtz** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:39 pm

Griff83 wrote:Move him out to a team in the West. He would dominate in a division like the NL West.

Colorado has a solid team that could use some starting pitching.

Shaun Marcum for Ian Stewart. He would be a nice player to fill that void over at 3B and he's only 25. Not sure they would do it but they could badly use a frontline starter to pitch behind Jiminez.

Would love that trade. A cheap ace in his prime for a 3B who puts up a .780 OPS in Colorado. No brainer.

Griff83 · Post #8 » by **Griff83** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:49 pm

Kurtz wrote:
Griff83 wrote:Move him out to a team in the West. He would dominate in a division like the NL West.

Colorado has a solid team that could use some starting pitching.

Shaun Marcum for Ian Stewart. He would be a nice player to fill that void over at 3B and he's only 25. Not sure they would do it but they could badly use a frontline starter to pitch behind Jiminez.

Would love that trade. A cheap ace in his prime for a 3B who puts up a .780 OPS in Colorado. No brainer.

How old is he? kids 25 year's old.

Brett Wallace is one year younger and hasnt even made the big league's yet. Stewart is young and has 40+ home runs already. Stewart is a good young player. I dont care what his OPS numbers are.

satyr9 · Post #9 » by **satyr9** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:23 am

I'd be happier going much younger than Stewart though. Say, Wilmer Flores from the Mets (who I've read will end up at 3rd), especially since they could use the pitching. Now, I have no idea how feasible that is, but if I'm moving Marcum, I'm trying to find a guy below AA that has a shot at being very good, just not for a little while.

Hoopstarr · Post #10 » by **Hoopstarr** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:39 am

Ooh, Flores would be very nice. I can't even remember the last time we had a prime 3B prospect.

I'm for trading Marcum if the return is too good to pass up.

SargentBargs101 · Post #11 » by **SargentBargs101** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:58 am

marcum for cameron maybin... his an article about maybin

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... on-maybin/

Kurtz · Post #12 » by **Kurtz** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:40 am

SargentBargs101 wrote:marcum for cameron maybin... his an article about maybin

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... on-maybin/

The article that shows that Maybin has been sucking, that he can't handle major league pitching and that the team doesn't look like it knows what to do with him at this point.

Are pitchers who can maintain a sub-4 ERA in AL East that common? Is a 29 year old pitcher with few miles on him that old? Is a pitcher in the 4th year of his entry contract too expensive?

I mean why in the name of blue hell do fans want to ship this guy out for a flyer prospect? I mean it's one thing if we're getting a can't miss star prospect out of the deal, but a 3b who struck out 138 times in his 2nd year and hit for .220, or a former top prospect who's been terrible for his 2 years in the league?

What the hell is going on on this board?

Post #13 » by **Schad** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:34 am

Kurtz wrote:Are pitchers who can maintain a sub-4 ERA in AL East that common? Is a 29 year old pitcher with few miles on him that old? Is a pitcher in the 4th year of his entry contract too expensive?

I mean why in the name of blue hell do fans want to ship this guy out for a flyer prospect? I mean it's one thing if we're getting a can't miss star prospect out of the deal, but a 3b who struck out 138 times in his 2nd year and hit for .220, or a former top prospect who's been terrible for his 2 years in the league?

What the hell is going on on this board?

It's not that he's too old or too expensive now. It's that he will be by the time that we're ready to compete...he has two arb years remaining, and will hit free agency at 31, at which point this team still won't be a fully formed squad capable of doing anything in the East. As such, it would behoove us to get value for him before we're faced with either having to extend him through age 33-35 at pretty high cost (which is extremely risky with a pitcher), or potentially lose him to free agency.

My preference would be to trade him next year, though...if he can string together a season and a half of very good pitching, he'll fetch a good bounty.

Post #14 » by **OldNo7** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:28 pm

I am with Schad, I think teams would be more interested in him if he shows he can pitch the entire season healthy and successful. Perhaps the offseason is the best time.

Post #15 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:53 pm

Kurtz: Marcum is good now, it's true. And if he can pitch this well the rest of this season, he'll fetch us a huge bounty.

Like Schad said, we're years away from being ready to compete and by the time we're ready, Marcum's 87 mph fastball will be an 85 mph fastball, he'll be that much less effective and we'll have a much harder time moving him for something worth our time that will help us compete.

If we move him now, when we are guaranteed to continue playing poorly because our roster is weak and unbalanced, then we get guys who should be ready to contribute by the time this team is actually ready to make a legit run. If we wait, he costs us a lot of money and his value diminishes, leaving us with an expensive pitcher who won't bring us as good a piece in return and who isn't as effective as he is currently.

satyr9 · Post #16 » by **satyr9** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:05 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:
Kurtz wrote:Are pitchers who can maintain a sub-4 ERA in AL East that common? Is a 29 year old pitcher with few miles on him that old? Is a pitcher in the 4th year of his entry contract too expensive?

I mean why in the name of blue hell do fans want to ship this guy out for a flyer prospect? I mean it's one thing if we're getting a can't miss star prospect out of the deal, but a 3b who struck out 138 times in his 2nd year and hit for .220, or a former top prospect who's been terrible for his 2 years in the league?

What the hell is going on on this board?

It's not that he's too old or too expensive now. It's that he will be by the time that we're ready to compete...he has two arb years remaining, and will hit free agency at 31, at which point this team still won't be a fully formed squad capable of doing anything in the East. As such, it would behoove us to get value for him before we're faced with either having to extend him through age 33-35 at pretty high cost (which is extremely risky with a pitcher), or potentially lose him to free agency.

My preference would be to trade him next year, though...if he can string together a season and a half of very good pitching, he'll fetch a good bounty.

I have high hopes for the potential return and if it's not there yet, then I absolutely wait 'til next year, but if a team buys that Marcum''s the real deal now, then IMO the return is even better because he has the extra arby years remaining. If you can't get the premium return because he's one year back from injury, then you absolutely wait and hope he keeps it up and the bounty presents itself next year, but the fact a team can have him for the stretch run and two years before FA should get his value higher now if that team is confident he's not a fluke and don't need more time to see if he can keep it going. I don't really know what's realistic, but I've seen GMs make far bigger commitments on smaller bodies of work than Marcum's so I'm, at the very least, open to seeing what the market offers now, 'cause I think there's the possibility this year's return exceeds next year's.

kwamebargnani · Post #17 » by **kwamebargnani** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:42 pm

I'm fine with that.

wtcantfw · Post #18 » by **wtcantfw** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:40 pm

Hoopstarr wrote:Ooh, Flores would be very nice. I can't even remember the last time we had a prime 3B prospect.

kelso · Post #19 » by **kelso** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:13 pm

lol @ Hinske...he did win ROY though so I'll give him that.

I love Shaun Marcum- he's the kind of guy you want on your team. That said, pitching like he is now well into July, we should be able to do a hell of a lot better than Flores.

Brew666 · Post #20 » by **Brew666** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:34 pm

I'd rather hold on to Marcum unless if someone is willing to overpay for him in a trade.

Marcum isn't an athletic pitcher and depends more on location than speed. As a result, I can see him pitching at this level for a few more years. The one thing I've seen this year is that we're not as far as behind as I once thought. Having a vet like Marcum on your pitching rotation is never a bad thing and until these prospects actually prove their worth, I'm keeping him as my ace/#2 starter.