For all those that feel that we HAVE to move JT/Hawes/Landry

[OGSactownballer]

Yesterday I went down to the second Saturday Kings event at the new store on L St.. While there I met and chatted with JT. Here's one thing that I came away with that I don't think that most here are really paying attention to. As I have posted before, I have played and been involved in BBall for my whole life. i turn 40 this summer and in my day when they measured you, there was no shoes/no shoes. I am 6'3" bare/flat footed. While I have no question in my mind that Jason is a true 6'11", he is NOT big up top the way Webber was. He has what we used to call a "basketball build" - i.e. tall and rangy but strong. The issue here is this. He is young, but I do not ever see him manning the Center position other than part-time or b/u minutes. He is and always will be a PF. That being the case, you have to accept that we really do need another true center on the roster to either start or b/u Hawes. This is something I have been trying to point out over and over this off-season with the additional caveat of looking at the teams in the finals - they have a four-big rotation and also have one or two guys on the bench that are 4/5 players to boot. We just need size right now.

Any thoughts?

[king125]

Agreed. The truth is unless some amazing opportunity comes about, I would like to keep Hawes, JT, and Landry and just add a guy. Whether it be Cousins in the first round or maybe Jerome Jordan in the 2nd round, we need a 4 man big rotation. I could see JT playing some 5 in situations. But he would be best suited as a 4, whether he starts or comes in behind Landry. That depends on them and how they progress.

Like I said, I really dont want to subtract anyone from this team (except Noc) and would like to fill in the gaps this draft. We need a legitimate Center and another SG. We have 2 picks to get it done.

[pillwenney]

I'm fine holding on to guys. I just think it would largely be unnecessary, and that if we could move one of them for a piece we need, like a third guard, it would be the prudent thing to do, and I think that between Pick/Thompson or Hawes/Landry/Brockman, we can be fine. Brockman can be the 4th big quite easily, not to mention the possbility of Donte developing into a stretch 4.

[longfellow44]

The way I've always seen the big man rotation in the NBA is that you need 3 guys who play major minutes at the PF/C spots and then you want for lack of a better term 2 practice guys that see minutes only when we have injuries or foul trouble.

2 of Hawes, Thompson, and Landry should comprise 2 slots in the 3 man rotation and one of them should be traded because they are more talented than bench fodder. But we need to add a major talent to that front court to get that 3 man rotation. Hopefully that guy is cousins and we can move on from there.

we currently have 1 Practice guy in Brockman, we need another hopefully a taller guy that can block a shot or two, like a steven hunter but maybe worse.

If we land cousins I see Hawes on his way out. That rotation would work with Landry and Cousins in the starting lineup with Thompson backing up both spots.

If instead we bring in a major PF, then we likely move Landry and have Hawes start at C and thompson backing up both positions.

The main theme here is that Thompson is an Ideal 3rd big man with his ability to back up either position

[RoyalCourtJestr]

I am completely 100% behind keeping JT, Landry and Brockman, ect. Keep them all. Add in Cousins/Whiteside and we've got four big men that are talented and care.

If there is ONE guy I am ok with trading - as in, no sense of regret - it is Hawes. I'm done with his medocrity. At least JT tries to better himself... Hawes has had three years and has added little to his game.

[DickVitale]

I honestly think that we're expecting to much from the majority of our players. I mean expecting their best is one thing, but expecting greatness from ppl like jt/hawes/caspi ... and then wanting them gone because they're not at some unrealistic level we've set for them... I think that's just crazy...

I think we need to hold on to all 3, I mean if a trade comes in that we just cant pass up.. well then fine - but I like where all 3 of those players are at for their age - They all 3 have shown flashes of greatness...

Big men like jt/hawes take years to mold into BEASTLY players, I think they both still have tons of potential jt more then hawes because he is younger.. but what I really would like to see us do is get a "Carlos Boozer" type player - someone who is veteran, tenacious and more defense/rebound/scrap orientated ... someone who can really teach hawes/jt how its done ... and hopefully it will rub off on them.. at the same time give us what we need now (instead of being unrealistic with our young talent) ... this would help take off some pressure from our young gunz...

Top 5 things I think the kings need... (with out having to trade) ... which I honestly think with the talent we have, and will get through the draft will be enough to make us a play-off contender....

1. Hopefully Evans works on his jump shot - a nice mid-range jumper is all he needs.. he gets that he is virtually un-guard-able.

2. Hawes/Jt - I hope during the off-season they show a decent improvement in both rebounding and defense in the paint... (I don't think either of those are very unrealistic for them to achieve)

3. Caspi - Hopefully he shows improvement as well, although I think that his performance during the
first half of the year.. and actually a bit more towards the end of the year - was brilliant... If he could just show a bit of improvement and be a bit more consistent he would be perfect..

4. GET RID OF Andre (no sense) andres nocioni - GET HIM OUT OF HERE, I will be completely honest here I have never liked him and I probably never will - but I think he is a huge cry baby and has a poor attitude - which has rubbed off badly on hawes ... or atleast for hawes sake I want to think that is the problem - I think nocioni is a cancer on our team and is taking away playing time from our young talent which can be used to increase their market value and skills ... One of the best moments of last season was when Evans called out nocioni for his poor shot selection... I was very happy with evans for doing that...

5. Use our draft picks wisely - which with GP the genius - is kind of a no brainer... but yea I think with 2 well thought out selections - we can really solidify ourselves as a play-off contending team in the next few years..

[YC42Balla]

I honestly think that we're expecting to much from the majority of our players. I mean expecting their best is one thing, but expecting greatness from ppl like jt/hawes/caspi ... and then wanting them gone because they're not at some unrealistic level we've set for them... I think that's just crazy...

I think we need to hold on to all 3, I mean if a trade comes in that we just cant pass up.. well then fine - but I like where all 3 of those players are at for their age - They all 3 have shown flashes of greatness...

Big men like jt/hawes take years to mold into BEASTLY players, I think they both still have tons of potential jt more then hawes because he is younger.. but what I really would like to see us do is get a "Carlos Boozer" type player - someone who is veteran, tenacious and more defense/rebound/scrap orientated ... someone who can really teach hawes/jt how its done ... and hopefully it will rub off on them.. at the same time give us what we need now (instead of being unrealistic with our young talent) ... this would help take off some pressure from our young gunz...

Top 5 things I think the kings need... (with out having to trade) ... which I honestly think with the talent we have, and will get through the draft will be enough to make us a play-off contender....

1. Hopefully Evans works on his jump shot - a nice mid-range jumper is all he needs.. he gets that he is virtually un-guard-able.

2. Hawes/Jt - I hope during the off-season they show a decent improvement in both rebounding and defense in the paint... (I don't think either of those are very unrealistic for them to achieve)

3. Caspi - Hopefully he shows improvement as well, although I think that his performance during the
first half of the year.. and actually a bit more towards the end of the year - was brilliant... If he could just show a bit of improvement and be a bit more consistent he would be perfect..

4. GET RID OF Andre (no sense) andres nocioni - GET HIM OUT OF HERE, I will be completely honest here I have never liked him and I probably never will - but I think he is a huge cry baby and has a poor attitude - which has rubbed off badly on hawes ... or atleast for hawes sake I want to think that is the problem - I think nocioni is a cancer on our team and is taking away playing time from our young talent which can be used to increase their market value and skills ... One of the best moments of last season was when Evans called out nocioni for his poor shot selection... I was very happy with evans for doing that...

5. Use our draft picks wisely - which with GP the genius - is kind of a no brainer... but yea I think with 2 well thought out selections - we can really solidify ourselves as a play-off contending team in the next few years..

Hawes is actually two years younger then Thompson.. Spencer was Born in 1988 (22) and Jason was born 1986 (24). I agree with you that Jason has more raw talent at this point.. but many say that hawes has more Upside since he is younger.. what ever the case.. I do agree that both need to work on their down low skills this summer and Lift some weights. We desperately need them to get better!! that's one of are biggest needs right now.. Quality big men that can get the job done!! It would be great to get another Quality big man to help are team in the low post.. as for the Mentor talk--I think we have a good big-men coach in sheriff Abdur-Rahim.. he was a great player back in his prime. And he seems like a great Teacher for the younger biggs on are team.

[City of Trees]

I honestly think that we're expecting to much from the majority of our players. I mean expecting their best is one thing, but expecting greatness from ppl like jt/hawes/caspi ... and then wanting them gone because they're not at some unrealistic level we've set for them... I think that's just crazy...

I think we need to hold on to all 3, I mean if a trade comes in that we just cant pass up.. well then fine - but I like where all 3 of those players are at for their age - They all 3 have shown flashes of greatness...

Big men like jt/hawes take years to mold into BEASTLY players, I think they both still have tons of potential jt more then hawes because he is younger.. but what I really would like to see us do is get a "Carlos Boozer" type player - someone who is veteran, tenacious and more defense/rebound/scrap orientated ... someone who can really teach hawes/jt how its done ... and hopefully it will rub off on them.. at the same time give us what we need now (instead of being unrealistic with our young talent) ... this would help take off some pressure from our young gunz...

Top 5 things I think the kings need... (with out having to trade) ... which I honestly think with the talent we have, and will get through the draft will be enough to make us a play-off contender....

1. Hopefully Evans works on his jump shot - a nice mid-range jumper is all he needs.. he gets that he is virtually un-guard-able.

2. Hawes/Jt - I hope during the off-season they show a decent improvement in both rebounding and defense in the paint... (I don't think either of those are very unrealistic for them to achieve)

3. Caspi - Hopefully he shows improvement as well, although I think that his performance during the
first half of the year.. and actually a bit more towards the end of the year - was brilliant... If he could just show a bit of improvement and be a bit more consistent he would be perfect..

4. GET RID OF Andre (no sense) andres nocioni - GET HIM OUT OF HERE, I will be completely honest here I have never liked him and I probably never will - but I think he is a huge cry baby and has a poor attitude - which has rubbed off badly on hawes ... or atleast for hawes sake I want to think that is the problem - I think nocioni is a cancer on our team and is taking away playing time from our young talent which can be used to increase their market value and skills ... One of the best moments of last season was when Evans called out nocioni for his poor shot selection... I was very happy with evans for doing that...

5. Use our draft picks wisely - which with GP the genius - is kind of a no brainer... but yea I think with 2 well thought out selections - we can really solidify ourselves as a play-off contending team in the next few years..

Hawes is actually two years younger then Thompson.. Spencer was Born in 1988 (22) and Jason was born 1986 (24). I agree with you that Jason has more raw talent at this point.. but many say that hawes has more Upside since he is younger.. what ever the case.. I do agree that both need to work on their down low skills this summer and Lift some weights. We desperately need them to get better!! that's one of are biggest needs right now.. Quality big men that can get the job done!! It would be great to get another Quality big man to help are team in the low post.. as for the Mentor talk--I think we have a good big-men coach in sheriff Abdur-Rahim.. he was a great player back in his prime. And he seems like a great Teacher for the younger biggs on are team.

another way to evaluate spencer/jt is by age... hawes is now the age jt was wen jt was a rookie. ask yourself, who is farther along at this point? i think hands down you have to say hawes has the upper hand at 22 yrs of age.. bigs take time to develop. if hawes can have improve these next couple of years like jt did in yrs 22-24 then i think he is worth keeping. but i agree with you guys that attitude he carries on the court is completely different than jt and its very discouraging! so we are stuck with the option of 2 questionable motivated C's hawes or cousins who do you roll the dice with?

[SacKingZZZ]

The same thing I've been bringing up to all the people saying JT can play C. He just doesn't have the body or the strength to do it.


If the idea was to move one of them I'd have to say Thompson. He has the most value and Hawes, while some think he is worthless, still has a ton of potential and is way too young to write off just yet. I'm looking for a big year from him next year.

[_SRV_]

JT is an average starter good bench player, Hawes is really inconsistent, and I don't think he'll ever be a good and reliable starter, keep them or trade them, the Kings need a better player upfront.

[ICMTM]

I feel JT and Hawes have their best basketball ahead of them. I personally thin JT will be our best PF in future years. Spencer I just feels isn't going to reach his potential. He's very skilled when you look at individual parts of his game. When you try to put it all together it falls apart. It could change, but I just don't see it.

[pillwenney]

I think JT is fine as a basically a backup center (a 4/5 basically), at least for the most part. If need be we can sign a big body to just play situationally.

I would also argue that Spencer doesn't really have the body to play center either--in fact I'd say that's one of his main weaknesses. It's not like he's any stronger than Jason, and the eye test would seem to indicate he's not any longer either.

[_SRV_]

JT and Hawes being close doesn't make JT a center, it makes Hawes a PF.

[Cruel_Ruin]

We DO need a Center with a wide base. Those are the body types that don't get backed down in the post. If we're talking strictly about post defense then height is irrelevant. Some examples include Al Horford, Big Baby Davis, Chuck Hayes as players who lack height but are strong and thick in their base to be able to fend off taller post players.

Neither Hawes nor JT have that kind of base. However, if Hawes develops enough offensively then you can justify him being a somewhat liability on the defensive end to play him. I don't see that kind of offensive potential in JT. On the other hand, if we are picking who I'd rather have as a roleplaying starter at PF, I'd pick JT in a heartbeat. Better face up defender, better rebounder, more consistent set jumpshot, plays with more heart and hustle.

Landry I'd rather have off the bench. He doesn't have the size to be a consistent starting PF for a contender and his production suffers when he's put in that position. Better play him off the bench to scorch whoever the opponent's reserve bigs are.

My absolute fantasy is a starting frontcourt of a consistent Greene at SF, a smarter/experienced JT at PF, and a Cousins at C with his head screwed on straight. Three guys who are all impact players defensively with their height and length (all at 6'11) who are all fantastic compliments offensively to eachother with Cousins in the post and Thompson/Greene spreading the floor with their shooting.

Draft day cannot come soon enough.

[Sacramento_King]

Yesterday I went down to the second Saturday Kings event at the new store on L St.. While there I met and chatted with JT.

One thing about JT though is that he is a nice guy and will stop and chat with you, take pictures etc. Sometimes you need to keep those "good" guys around. I have had a cpl friends run into him and they always say how nice he is. I've run into him at Macy's and he waited while we grabbed our kids from another department to take pics with him. Chatted us up. May just be his youth but he's definitely a good guy in my book and would be a keeper.

As far as the court, he brings rebounding and hustle. Can't go wrong with that. May not be a starter but those attributes will get him time while he learns to play the position.

[pillwenney]

JT and Hawes being close doesn't make JT a center, it makes Hawes a PF.

Sure. But I still think Jason would be fine as a back up center. Most back up centers in the league are either smaller than him, or suck--or at the very least aren't going to make him pay for his lack of size.

[Sacramento_King]

JT and Hawes being close doesn't make JT a center, it makes Hawes a PF.

Sure. But I still think Jason would be fine as a back up center. Most back up centers in the league are either smaller than him, or suck--or at the very least aren't going to make him pay for his lack of size.

Agreed. JT can work as a part time center.

[_SRV_]

JT and Hawes being close doesn't make JT a center, it makes Hawes a PF.

Sure. But I still think Jason would be fine as a back up center. Most back up centers in the league are either smaller than him, or suck--or at the very least aren't going to make him pay for his lack of size.

My comment was that the perception that Hawes is center by default is wrong, he has a PF body and strength and he plays like a PF.
Practically, every 6'10" PF can play backup center.

[pillwenney]

Oh, well I agree with that.

[a-rod]

Spencer has a 7-1 wingspan and a 9-1 standing reach. His size isn't really an issue. He's definitely capable size wise of playing center. he needs to add more strength, but he cant, because of his knees,and it also might affect his speed. and we all know athleticism was his biggest problem coming out of collage.