2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

SteveNets15 · Post #961 » by **SteveNets15** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:47 pm

^He said CDR was better than a 2nd rounder and an NBA player.I think thats a fair assessment of him.

Preludepunk27 · Post #962 » by **Preludepunk27** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:53 pm

demens wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:While I don't know if Minny does that deal, I do think it was foolish to say that CDR is as good as a 2nd rounder. He'd probably become their best wing player if that trade were to happen (not counting potential draft picks).

Only net fans think CDR, actually, only Net CDR fans think he is worth anything more then a 2nd rounder. Its very questionable to say he'd become the Wolves best wing player, what exactly makes him better then Damien Wilkins, Sasha Pavlovic or Wayne Ellington. Not much if anything at all.

You could definitely make the argument about the Nets being terrible, but look at their situational stats of the guys you just mentioned? When they were starters, did they average 17ppg like CDR? Maybe we are a little to close to the situation. But CDR can be an RJ like player as a #3 option on a team. There certainly are teams in the late 1st that would gladly give up their pick for a guy they know can already perform in the NBA and still won't cost them much more than the guy they'd select with their pick.

I believe there are a number of teams that would give up a future 1st for him.

demens · Post #963 » by **demens** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:04 pm

stevieboy wrote:^He said CDR was better than a 2nd rounder and an NBA player.I think thats a fair assessment of him.

Who did?

Krapinsky wrote:
We would value CDR about as much as an early second round pick, which is to say not so much.

This is coming from someone that can be objective about this.

demens · Post #964 » by **demens** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:11 pm

Preludepunk27 wrote:You could definitely make the argument about the Nets being terrible, but look at their situational stats of the guys you just mentioned? When they were starters, did they average 17ppg like CDR?

This is where cherry picking stats comes into play. CDR actually averaged 13ppg as a starter not 17. Sasha Pavlovic did that a few years ago, he also had a pretty solid contribution on the Cavs finals run, which included playing superb defense. If i'm not mistaken, he bitched out Vince pretty bad that year too.

Damien Wilkens averaged 13 as a starter too, multiple times.

Lets be honest here, we're talking about scrubs here. And they are all very comparable...hence CDR...is...a...scrub. I wish people would stop fighting that.

jeff1624 · Post #965 » by **jeff1624** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:24 pm

demens wrote:
Preludepunk27 wrote:You could definitely make the argument about the Nets being terrible, but look at their situational stats of the guys you just mentioned? When they were starters, did they average 17ppg like CDR?

This is where cherry picking stats comes into play. CDR actually averaged 13ppg as a starter not 17. Sasha Pavlovic did that a few years ago, he also had a pretty solid contribution on the Cavs finals run, which included playing superb defense. If i'm not mistaken, he bitched out Vince pretty bad that year too.

Damien Wilkens averaged 13 as a starter too, multiple times.

Lets be honest here, we're talking about scrubs here. And they are all very comparable...hence CDR...is...a...scrub. I wish people would stop fighting that.

Come on man, no one is saying CDR is a star player.. but he WOULD be their best wing player, the Wolves are that weak at the sg and sf positions.

Yes, CDR would be better than a 30 year old Damien Wilkins who averaged 5.6 a game last year. Yes he would be better than Pavlovic who had a 5.4 per last year. People seem to forget that at the beginning of the season, the only guy worth mentioning on this team beside Brook was CDR. We know why he was benched and I'd understand if that was the argument used against trading for him, but to say he's right around Sasha Pavlovic and Damien Wilkins production wise, is well, dumb to say the least.

enetric · Post #966 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:09 am

jeff1624 wrote:While I don't know if Minny does that deal, I do think it was foolish to say that CDR is as good as a 2nd rounder. He'd probably become their best wing player if that trade were to happen (not counting potential draft picks).

I wrote the deal...and will go further to say...they probably wouldnt do it. But that doesnt mean it wasnt a good offer...or a fair offer. They want Rubio to be valued as a star and Love as star...and want to trade up in the draft. Reality? One guy doesnt want to play for them and still isnt going into year two. Another is coming off the bench because he flat out cant play with their best player.

Sure 4 up to three isnt a big deal in theory...but if you covet a specific player...and your trade value for Rubio with continiue to decline with each passing season...getting a young proven all star PG isnt exactly trying to rip you off.

The thing is...we dont need to make the trade...and adding more draft picks for this season to weaken our pick this year and take cap room with it? There is no motivation for us to do it. So, the trtade has to be enticing for us...acceptable for them. And that was my point. In the end...I dont se it happening...and I think the guy who posted the questiuon got his answer. Giving us a middle first round pick that isnt any better than our 27 pick in this draft isnt motivation enough...so the price was too rich for his blood. I respect that.

If in reverse he cant understand why our cap space and the #3 is more valuable to us than the 4 and middle pick in draft that after pick 6 is a big jumble? Then...we arent going to see eye to eye.

enetric · Post #967 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:19 am

demens wrote:
stevieboy wrote:^He said CDR was better than a 2nd rounder and an NBA player.I think thats a fair assessment of him.

Who did?

Krapinsky wrote:
We would value CDR about as much as an early second round pick, which is to say not so much.

This is coming from someone that can be objective about this.

That's not objective. That is a fan valuing his onw teams assets higher than the team he wants to trade with. Nothing wrong with that...but it doesnt make it reflective of anything.

CDR added to a trade would have value he is no stud....but a great contract per talent. If he were going in the draft right now with what he has shown so far...he would be a mid first round pick.

Ty Lawson...for #10. I like Ty Lawson more...but I think that is a fair comparison.

SpeedyG · Post #968 » by **SpeedyG** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:51 am

No comments on that highlight I posted?

mikhailjordan · Post #969 » by **mikhailjordan** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:07 am

SpeedyG wrote:No comments on that highlight I posted?

Haven't taken the time to watch it but even though I want Favors my one concern is how he will develop when he bulks up... So I guess what I'm saying is... Is long-term Favors better as a C than PF?

SpeedyG · Post #970 » by **SpeedyG** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:17 am

mikhailjordan wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:No comments on that highlight I posted?

Haven't taken the time to watch it but even though I want Favors my one concern is how he will develop when he bulks up... So I guess what I'm saying is... Is long-term Favors better as a C than PF?

Just fast forward to the times I noted. Rest are dunks and highlight reel type material (which he's got plenty of and really doesn't concern me).

Favors I think is going to be a PF through and through unless he just absolutely grows. At 6'10, 246, he's already close to prototype PF size. At max, I think I can see him growing to 6'11 ish, 260....which means he can slide to C. It really depends on what kind of game he can develop. He'll need some kind of consistent jumper and maintain his athleticism to stay at the 4...

mikhailjordan · Post #971 » by **mikhailjordan** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:36 am

Well, once again I haven't taken the time to compare number by number, but I've read numerous time that Favors basically measured exactly the same as Dwight Howard, so I mean if he bulks up will he still be quick enough to effectively play PF (outside of the lane / in pick and roll situations)?

I mean it's a what-if argument and I'll say it again, I think I'd draft Favors anyway but guys like Greg Monroe and to a lesser extent Patterson have also piqued my interest as of late...

SpeedyG · Post #972 » by **SpeedyG** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:55 am

One, I really don't like the Howard comparison. I don't think Favors is that kind of an athlete. I look at Dwight and I think power and explosiveness. I look at Favors and I see athletic and smooth (for his size). In either case, I'm not too worried about it even if he bulks up and gets taller. At that point, he'll become a center (assuming he lost quickness to guard 4s), and we'll let him compete with Brook, and someone will bound to want the loser of the competition.

vincecarter4pres · Post #973 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:07 am

SpeedyG wrote:
mikhailjordan wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:No comments on that highlight I posted?

Haven't taken the time to watch it but even though I want Favors my one concern is how he will develop when he bulks up... So I guess what I'm saying is... Is long-term Favors better as a C than PF?

Just fast forward to the times I noted. Rest are dunks and highlight reel type material (which he's got plenty of and really doesn't concern me).

I take it you're talking about a couple of the post moves and blocked shots around the times you listed?

vincecarter4pres · Post #974 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:08 am

The moment you have all been waiting for...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBSK0hLMYo8[/youtube]

enetric · Post #975 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:11 am

Here is a video of Cousins and Favors working out in Sac the other day. No one on one, but each doing the same shooting drills at the same time.

Cousins definitely has the nicer release om his jumper and at least I got to see more of the ZACH comparisons here. (grey cut off),

and Favors the more smooth athletically. (black shirt).

Nothing we didn't know already but I enjoyed watching this video more than the BS highlight films.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBSK0hLMYo8&feature=channel[/youtube]

enetric · Post #976 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:14 am

HA! We were posting it at the same time...lol.

vincecarter4pres · Post #977 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:19 am

enetric wrote:HA! We were posting it at the same time...lol.

And neither made it to the top of the new page. :lol:

I'm bumping it, F it...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBSK0hLMYo8[/youtube]

BTW, you can't tell me Cousins looks like Eddy Curry in this video.

Favors looks smooth as hell dunking though...

enetric · Post #978 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:31 am

No he doesnt. Much more Zach. I was significanlty more impressed and finally see SOME of what you like. But, to be fair to Fat boy Curry...as much of bad NBA player that he was...he was a dominant force on the blocks. he was just the most self contained 20 points I have seen from a big man ever.

To bad we didnt get to see them go 1 on 1. I did notice that while Cousins has a nice looking release, he doesnt get off the ground.

On the one had I feel better about what I saw and I am thinking...OK if he is our guy...trust Rod and dont cry. And on the other...I just didnt see enough to know....is it self contained moves? can he run a full NBA court for 25 minutes? Can he guard anyone in the NBA while doing it? Can he spot the double team and pass out of it? A lot you cant see in these things.

But at least I got to see more of his basic footwork and some of what you like about him. as I said in chicago....if he improves his stock down the stretch...GREAT. Love to see talent maximized. Bu I will not cry if we pass and let someone else deal with the red flags. That's just me.

SpeedyG · Post #979 » by **SpeedyG** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:14 pm

enetric wrote:No he doesnt. Much more Zach. I was significanlty more impressed and finally see SOME of what you like. But, to be fair to Fat boy Curry...as much of bad NBA player that he was...he was a dominant force on the blocks. he was just the most self contained 20 points I have seen from a big man ever.

To bad we didnt get to see them go 1 on 1. I did notice that while Cousins has a nice looking release, he doesnt get off the ground

Thought the same, but hard to say if he's just not elevating since this is a workout after all instead of a high intensity game.

As far as Favors, smooth. I think he's definitely a PF. Good form, high release point. And what I like is the quickness when he faced up and put the ball on the floor, despite it being a workout and low intensity, you can see how smooth the movement is, how quick he moved, and how natural it looked for him.

SpeedyG · Post #980 » by **SpeedyG** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:17 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:I take it you're talking about a couple of the post moves and blocked shots around the times you listed?

First two were drop step, spin, and finish (first one with a dunk, second with a layup). Nice footwork, nice spin, excellent finish (especially on the first one, Grandmama like).

The other thing I noted? Post move...left block...LEFT HAND semi hook.