2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

mikhailjordan · Post #981 » by **mikhailjordan** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:34 pm

It looked to me that neither player was elevating that much on their jump shot because it was a workout situation.

I have no doubt that both players get higher than that on their jumpers. Favors needs some work on his mechanics though...

crazykidd2k6 · Post #982 » by **crazykidd2k6** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:35 pm

Favors shot release is definitely not nba ready. It is way to slow. However, Cousins conditioning and footwork is not really too good in this video. He was dragging his feet and he didn't look quick at all. Comparing him to favors the sweat factor is just ridiculous. Cousins is practically taking a bath out there and Favors looks like it wasn't a big deal for him.

Preludepunk27 · Post #983 » by **Preludepunk27** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:40 pm

^^^^^

I know that has to do with strength and stamina, but someone could also look at that as Cousins, though slower, is working hard while Favors is just going through the motions. It can bring his motor into question.

Favors is my guy don't get me wrong, I'm just saying there is room for interpretation.

crazykidd2k6 · Post #984 » by **crazykidd2k6** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:41 pm

(continued)
From Watching this video I don't see Cousins turning into anything special. A lot of people speculate him, "as a better version of Al Jefferson." But, no way in hell that will ever happen. As for the Zach Randolph comparison that Enetric pointed, I see his point. Even with that comparison I still see Zach being a better player since he is definitely more athletic and quicker than Cousins.

crazykidd2k6 · Post #985 » by **crazykidd2k6** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:43 pm

Preludepunk27 wrote:^^^^^

I know that has to do with strength and stamina, but someone could also look at that as Cousins, though slower, is working hard while Favors is just going through the motions. It can bring his motor into question.

Favors is my guy don't get me wrong, I'm just saying there is room for interpretation.

you really can't put that into perspective because they are doing exactly the same drills. So they have practically have the same motion together.

vincecarter4pres · Post #986 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:18 pm

Seriously dude, maybe some people just sweat more... :dontknow:

Preludepunk27 · Post #987 » by **Preludepunk27** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:27 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Seriously dude, maybe some people just sweat more...

Exactly. I run 5K's with a few friends. I can tell you I sweat profusely even though I'm in the same shape.

Again, I'm all in for Favors, but there is room for interpretation

crazykidd2k6 · Post #988 » by **crazykidd2k6** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:36 pm

Well can you explain to me why he is dragging his feet?

enetric · Post #989 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:48 pm

SpeedyG wrote:
enetric wrote:No he doesnt. Much more Zach. I was significanlty more impressed and finally see SOME of what you like. But, to be fair to Fat boy Curry...as much of bad NBA player that he was...he was a dominant force on the blocks. he was just the most self contained 20 points I have seen from a big man ever.

To bad we didnt get to see them go 1 on 1. I did notice that while Cousins has a nice looking release, he doesnt get off the ground

Thought the same, but hard to say if he's just not elevating since this is a workout after all instead of a high intensity game.

As far as Favors, smooth. I think he's definitely a PF. Good form, high release point. And what I like is the quickness when he faced up and put the ball on the floor, despite it being a workout and low intensity, you can see how smooth the movement is, how quick he moved, and how natural it looked for him.

Nah. His vertical numbers in chicago were putrid.

enetric · Post #990 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:51 pm

crazykidd2k6 wrote:Favors shot release is definitely not nba ready. It is way to slow. However, Cousins conditioning and footwork is not really too good in this video. He was dragging his feet and he didn't look quick at all. Comparing him to favors the sweat factor is just ridiculous. Cousins is practically taking a bath out there and Favors looks like it wasn't a big deal for him.

And it was a half court passing dril. No running up and down the court...no defense.

I agree about the shot. But, there are a lot of big men in the NBA that cant...and do not shoot outside of 6 feet and are great players. Honestly? I would be happy to get a young Kmart our of Favors. A Tyson Chandler. if he is more than that...if his body develops, if he grows...if he athleticsim takes him to the Dwight Howard level...another offesivnely inept big who is still astud...then it becomes a steal. But, even if you get a solid workhorse...you get a glue players that helps you win games. And one more thing about the ugly shot....MARION.

enetric · Post #991 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:05 pm

Preludepunk27 wrote:^^^^^

I know that has to do with strength and stamina, but someone could also look at that as Cousins, though slower, is working hard while Favors is just going through the motions. It can bring his motor into question.

Favors is my guy don't get me wrong, I'm just saying there is room for interpretation.

If you can go half speed and be quick...that isnt a bad thing! And the rap is...favors goes hard as a player...Cousins goes in spurts and then just stops.
I think what we saw is exactly what scouts are saying. The vastly better athlete Vs. the guy who is more polished at the game.

At this point...we just have to trust our management to read al lthe reports and make the gut decision after weghing all the facts. If Cousins actually shows serious improvment athletically since Chicago and Rod and company see a change...if they like what they see and they go that way? OK fine.

Or we just hope Philly decides they prefer to go big and we get Turner...lol. I mean...end of day...that would be even better, right?

You know what would be a giant kick in the ass? We root for Turner as our guy...we end up gettng him...and one of these two end up being the better player anyway. Normally, I say...hey draft cna be a crap shoot...but we are a point with this process where the line is so close to what we should be coveting...its hard to accept the possiblity of blowing it. So much more pressure on this pick than any we have seen in a long time. Of course, higher in the draft...higher expectation...but I definitely think we are felling it as fans.

I am not convinced we cant end up with Turner. Not sure Philly will get someone to take a bad contract to move up...but could they swap a bad contract for a less bad contract? Say...do Detroit Brand for Rip and swap picks. Pistons take Cousins...Gordon starts at the two...maximize last seasons moves line up wise.

Trade Tay later for cap relief to Demens...not the the Nets but to Demens house. Just mail Tay right over there. Could work out right?

Or lets ay they cant get cap relief for the pick but they prefer Favors or Cousins. Could we give them a save face move on a 1 pick swap? Would they want a prospect we would part with? As in Yi on down or the #27? Not going to do it if they want Turner. Noit enough incentive. But if they want the lower ranked prospect and they dont get a great trade offer...why not?

enetric · Post #992 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:15 pm

crazykidd2k6 wrote:(continued)
From Watching this video I don't see Cousins turning into anything special. A lot of people speculate him, "as a better version of Al Jefferson." But, no way in hell that will ever happen. As for the Zach Randolph comparison that Enetric pointed, I see his point. Even with that comparison I still see Zach being a better player since he is definitely more athletic and quicker than Cousins.

Oh I agree I have doubts he will be that good either. BTW, the Zach comparison...I think was made by some of the draft sites out there. I think VCP is the one who made it here...JJ may have as well a week ago. I was just repeating it...and aknowledging that I see some comfort on rolling off the pivot and a nice release facing the basket on his move. Most of the highlights you see out there are dunkathons. I have seen him play at Kentucy...but I didnt see enough concentrated film to be as impressed as others.

Now I see the comfort in his footwork, but it doesnt tell us how his lack of athletic ability or terrible verticle will translate in the NBA. Getting off your feet and having the stamina to box out play after play is what makes rebounders in the NBA. Being tall...or a good wingspan...not enough. I expect Favors to be the better rebounder and shot blocker at the NBA level. Better defender. But not as good a scorer. I am OK with that personally.

enetric · Post #993 » by **enetric** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:16 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Seriously dude, maybe some people just sweat more...

Yeah but Cousins sweats beef gravy.

vincecarter4pres · Post #994 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:41 pm

enetric wrote:I would be happy to get a young Kmart our of Favors.

This is the comparison I made on the Draft Board around February.
A better rebounding Kenyon Martin.
It can't be taken too literal though, because Kenyon just has that mean streak and bad boy aura about him that you either have or you don't, funny that it's similar to Cousins'.
As hard as this is to swallow, Kenyon was also the much more polished offensive player.

enetric wrote:BTW, the Zach comparison...I think was made by some of the draft sites out there. I think VCP is the one who made it here...JJ may have as well a week ago.

Wasn't me. I think I have yet to make a comparison to Cousins directly, but I agreed with some on the draft board who said a better passing Al Jefferson. He's a lot more fiery though.

enetric wrote:I am not convinced we cant end up with Turner. Not sure Philly will get someone to take a bad contract to move up...but could they swap a bad contract for a less bad contract? Say...do Detroit Brand for Rip and swap picks. Pistons take Cousins...Gordon starts at the two...maximize last seasons moves line up wise.

I don't see Philly doing that. That is too far a drop to just swap Brand for Rip. Rip's contract is really pretty terrible as well.

Trade Tay later for cap relief to Demens...not the the Nets but to Demens house. Just mail Tay right over there. Could work out right?

I lol'ed.

Or lets ay they cant get cap relief for the pick but they prefer Favors or Cousins. Could we give them a save face move on a 1 pick swap? Would they want a prospect we would part with? As in Yi on down or the #27? Not going to do it if they want Turner. Not enough incentive. But if they want the lower ranked prospect and they dont get a great trade offer...why not?

I think Minny really wants Turner. I don't know that they give up the farm for him, but 4th overall and the 16th could easily trump our offer if they are comfortable with Cousins or Favors.
The 27th isn't much incentive and Yi is almost negative value, at most nuetral because of the commerce he can generate. It definitely varies from draft to draft, but trading up can cost as little as a few million dollars and a 2nd rounder, as much as a couple additional firsts or a decent prospect, or anywhere in between. We might see first hand which type of draft this is...

vincecarter4pres · Post #995 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:45 pm

enetric wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Seriously dude, maybe some people just sweat more...

Yeah but Cousins sweats beef gravy.

Krapinsky · Post #996 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:56 pm

I saw the Favors/Couins discussion and wanted to show you guys this if you have not seen it yet. It's Favors and Cousins matched up in highschool. Note that this a mixtape of Cousins' highlights only. Favors was also superb in this game. This tape really highlights Cousin's versatility and all around skill set, something he didn't get an opportunity to really show at Kentucky.

Cousins #15 (white)
Favors #54 (green)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-yCp9I85aE[/youtube]

vincecarter4pres · Post #997 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:59 pm

Krapinsky wrote:I saw the Favors/Couins discussion and wanted to show you guys this if you have not seen it yet. It's Favors and Cousins matched up in highschool. Note that this a mixtape of Cousins' highlights only. Favors was also superb in this game. This tape really highlights Cousin's versatility and all around skill set, something he didn't get an opportunity to really show at Kentucky.

Cousins #15 (white)
Favors #54 (green)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-yCp9I85aE[/youtube]

Thank you sir.

Reposted for the lazy motha...shut yo mouth! of this board... 8-)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-yCp9I85aE[/youtube]

Edit: By the time I posted it you already went back and embedded it.
Wow, this guy was so slim and agile, what happened?!
I see where the Derrick Coleman comparisons came from.
BTW, nice haircut, he looks like Major Payne.

demens · Post #998 » by **demens** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:12 am

But, Favors "destroyed" Cousins in high school, yeah. :noway:

enetric · Post #999 » by **enetric** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:30 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
enetric wrote:I would be happy to get a young Kmart our of Favors.

This is the comparison I made on the Draft Board around February.
A better rebounding Kenyon Martin.
It can't be taken too literal though, because Kenyon just has that mean streak and bad boy aura about him that you either have or you don't, funny that it's similar to Cousins'.
As hard as this is to swallow, Kenyon was also the much more polished offensive player.

enetric wrote:BTW, the Zach comparison...I think was made by some of the draft sites out there. I think VCP is the one who made it here...JJ may have as well a week ago.

Wasn't me. I think I have yet to make a comparison to Cousins directly, but I agreed with some on the draft board who said a better passing Al Jefferson. He's a lot more fiery though.

enetric wrote:I am not convinced we cant end up with Turner. Not sure Philly will get someone to take a bad contract to move up...but could they swap a bad contract for a less bad contract? Say...do Detroit Brand for Rip and swap picks. Pistons take Cousins...Gordon starts at the two...maximize last seasons moves line up wise.

I don't see Philly doing that. That is too far a drop to just swap Brand for Rip. Rip's contract is really pretty terrible as well.

Trade Tay later for cap relief to Demens...not the the Nets but to Demens house. Just mail Tay right over there. Could work out right?

I lol'ed.

Or lets ay they cant get cap relief for the pick but they prefer Favors or Cousins. Could we give them a save face move on a 1 pick swap? Would they want a prospect we would part with? As in Yi on down or the #27? Not going to do it if they want Turner. Not enough incentive. But if they want the lower ranked prospect and they dont get a great trade offer...why not?

I think Minny really wants Turner. I don't know that they give up the farm for him, but 4th overall and the 16th could easily trump our offer if they are comfortable with Cousins or Favors.
The 27th isn't much incentive and Yi is almost negative value, at most nuetral because of the commerce he can generate. It definitely varies from draft to draft, but trading up can cost as little as a few million dollars and a 2nd rounder, as much as a couple additional firsts or a decent prospect, or anywhere in between. We might see first hand which type of draft this is...

I call BS that Kmart was more offensively polished than Favorswhenb he came out. No way. And this kid is bigger and stronger and still growing...so we'll see. My comparison was...a hard working role guy that gets you wins. Not type.

I have my doubts that he we'll rebound like Al Jeff in the pros. We'll see.

Rip's contract sucks! My point was...its not as bad as Brand. if they cant get someone to take Brand outright. Tay to them expiring makes sense too...that is if Demens will share him. I just think the best they can do about Brand is to downsidze the awful. Not rid themselves of it.

I didnt mention Minny for that exact reason. my point was...if Philly says to themsevles...Ok we struck on for cap relief. We are ready to keep the pick. And after workouts they say...we like THIS guy and he is the one we want but he isnt Turner. If they deal their pick to Minny, they take Turner....we take the guy they might want they settle. My whole point was...if they cant get what they want and they are set to take a specific guy at 2...and they can lock get him at 3 for less per year and fill another need or add a chip. Its a long shot. Dont see it...just saying that has happened before.

enetric · Post #1000 » by **enetric** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:32 am

Krapinsky wrote:I saw the Favors/Couins discussion and wanted to show you guys this if you have not seen it yet. It's Favors and Cousins matched up in highschool. Note that this a mixtape of Cousins' highlights only. Favors was also superb in this game. This tape really highlights Cousin's versatility and all around skill set, something he didn't get an opportunity to really show at Kentucky.

Cousins #15 (white)
Favors #54 (green)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-yCp9I85aE[/youtube]

Before I even watch it for Cousins biased highlights...I have read about this game and heard commentators talk about it at the combine. They all said....without mincing words....Favors dominated the matchup.