Trade Ideas

Post #121 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:10 am

LeBron very well might walk, but I want some young talent if we trade him. Personally, I think he resigns, but if he wants to walk he walks.

panthermark · Post #122 » by **panthermark** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:33 am

I put the numbers at:
45% Cleveland
35%-40% Chicago
10%-15% NY

So yeah, Cleveland has the edge IMO....

But that is besides the point.... If Bron is willing to walk for nothing, how do you expect to get talent in return for him?

Again, if Bron went to NY or the Clippers....but the Bulls were still looking at Jamison and Parker for some reason (just play along), what is the value you are placing on those two? Multiple first round picks? That seems a bit steep. If Bron is gone, I would think those are salaries you are just trying to dump on your way to tanking the season and dropping payroll. Your GM isn't going to keep players in their mid-30's on a team that is rebuilding....he is going to let those guys go try to win rings someplace else.

Oh....and as far as "young" talent goes....

Deng is actually several months YOUNGER than LeBron.... (April 16, 1985 vs December 31, 1984)

You have to seperate the deals....

If Bron is gone, he is gone......you are rebuilding....so what can you get for Jamsion and Parker? Deng and a late 1st round pick?.....that seems like a steal..... Asking for the #17 and two future first round picks? That seems like you want to keep Jamison and Parker....but why? They are not part of the rebuilding process....they would just like to win a ring before the retire.

Post #123 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:49 am

I really don't want Deng at all. I definitely don't understand why we'd want to take on 2 additional years of his bad contract for only a very late 1st rounder (which people continually told us were worth nothing). I just see no benefit here.

Triumph36 · Post #124 » by **Triumph36** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:01 am

We have zero interest in Deng. With LeBron....without LeBron....still zero. He's wildly overpaid and even more importantly - by the time we have a chance to compete again he will be **** 30 and we'd be flushing $50M down the toilet in the meantime.

Gordon Bombay · Post #125 » by **Gordon Bombay** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:47 am

panthermark wrote:I put the numbers at:
45% Cleveland
35%-40% Chicago
10%-15% NY

So yeah, Cleveland has the edge IMO....

But that is besides the point.... If Bron is willing to walk for nothing, how do you expect to get talent in return for him?

Again, if Bron went to NY or the Clippers....but the Bulls were still looking at Jamison and Parker for some reason (just play along), what is the value you are placing on those two? Multiple first round picks? That seems a bit steep. If Bron is gone, I would think those are salaries you are just trying to dump on your way to tanking the season and dropping payroll. Your GM isn't going to keep players in their mid-30's on a team that is rebuilding....he is going to let those guys go try to win rings someplace else.

Oh....and as far as "young" talent goes....

Deng is actually several months YOUNGER than LeBron.... (April 16, 1985 vs December 31, 1984)

You have to seperate the deals....

If Bron is gone, he is gone......you are rebuilding....so what can you get for Jamsion and Parker? Deng and a late 1st round pick?.....that seems like a steal..... Asking for the #17 and two future first round picks? That seems like you want to keep Jamison and Parker....but why? They are not part of the rebuilding process....they would just like to win a ring before the retire.

just stop it. if we're rebuilding without lebron, would i rather pay luol deng 51,310,000 over 4 years or jamison and parker 31,391,389 over two seasons? pretty simple if you ask me

DirtyDez · Post #126 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:03 am

Cavs need a PG who can create his own shot. Arenas or Parker are good options. I don't see them getting Bosh/Amare because neither TOR/PHX will take Jamison. They could probably get Arenas easily with the Wiz wanting to dump contract. You might need to give up Mo/West/Hickson to get Parker. TP would be a great fit but Gil is the perfect #2 to Lebron IMO.

Mo/West/2011 1st - Arenas/Young

Arenas/Young/2010 1st (from cavs) - Murphy/West

Murphy - Mo/2010 1st/2011 1st

Doesn't seem like Mo is the Larry Bird type player but they need a PG and love picks.

Arenas, Boobie
Parker, Young
Lebron, Moon
Jamison, Hickson
JO, AV

RRT · Post #127 » by **RRT** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:45 am

^who's JO?

Post #128 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:38 am

Jermaine O'Neal and no way would I be giving up picks for Arenas and you have got to be joking with Murphy.

DirtyDez · Post #129 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:20 pm

Wiz would take Murphy for Arenas in a second. You do realize that WSH wants to dump Gil's enormous contract. Only question is would Indy trade him for Mo + picks.

RRT · Post #130 » by **RRT** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:24 am

TheOUTLAW wrote:Jermaine O'Neal and no way would I be giving up picks for Arenas and you have got to be joking with Murphy.

what the hell? who's idea is to sign Jermaine ONeal?

mcfly1204 · Post #131 » by **mcfly1204** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:37 pm

I am interested to know if NOH actually would let go of Collison if they can package him with Okafor or Posey. Would they want straight expirings, or would they be willing to take on a smaller, but longer contract? West/Telfair/Parker for Okafor/Collison. Then I would look to move Mo to Portland for Miller/Fernandez. Miller is an expiring, Cleveland could essentially groom Collison to be the starter next season. Though Okafor has a huge contract, he still fills a void on our roster.

Miller/Collison
Fernandez/Green/Gibson
James/Moon
Hickson/Jamison/Powe
Okafor/Varejao/Z(1-2 years at vet. min.)

**edit**
This is contingent on Cleveland missing out on a top tier free agent. It gives us a nice mix of youth and veterans moving forward.

gflem · Post #132 » by **gflem** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:59 pm

I wouldnt mind that at all. I dont know if Portland or N.O. is willing though.

tidho · Post #133 » by **tidho** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:37 pm

mcfly1204 wrote:West/Telfair/Parker for Okafor/Collison.

Okafor's deal is pretty bad but you have to think you'll get at least solid production from him for a long time.

I proposed a similar deal but gave up Hickson too, so obviously I like your deal. Telfair could reasonable fill in behind Paul, and this saves them over $6M right away. That's going to be better than a lot of teams can do.

heathmalc · Post #134 » by **heathmalc** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:40 am

A trade I've been thinking about, that looks good for both teams:

Cavaliers get: Al Jefferson, Ramon Sessions, 16th pick in draft

Minnesota gets: Anderson Varejao, Delonte West, Anthony Parker.

:::::::::::::::::Why this works for both teams::::::::::::::::::

For the Cavs: Al Jefferson posted PERs in the mid-20's before his ACL injury in February of last year. He also has double double seasons of 20/10 both years. His defense has improved dramatically, as he went from a HORRIBLE defender, to an "average" defender, who can rotate to the perimeter. He's no "Wild thing" on "D" , but what he lacks in defense, he makes up for in "spades" on offense! Many people considered him a HUGE snub from last year's all-star game, when Shaq went instead of him. But The Wolves had a bad record, and Shaq was a "name." Al was expected to have a big drop-off year after the ACL injury, but he still averaged 18/10, and got progressively better as the season progressed. Al was considered the 2nd or 3rd top player in the west before his injury, and since then has taken a lot of flack for Minnesota's losing, despite the fact that his numbers were well within his previous 2 seasons, despite the injury. He would be a HUGE acquisition for the Cavaliers!!! - Ramon Sessions was considered one of the best up-and-coming point guards in the league while playing in Milwaukee. He was signed by Minny in the off-season for 16million/4yrs. He has also caught a lot of flack for Minnesota's losing...despite the fact that coach Rambis clearly didn't like playing him because he doesn't have deep range. Sessions' minutes were up & down all season, which made it really hard for him to get into any type of groove, and his number suffered. Yet, when he got the minutes he expected, he often had big games. Sessions other huge bonuses are his defense and his ability to drive the ball. He was once again one of the top free-throw shooters per minute/shot at his position. He is regularly compared to Andre Miller, as he has similar size and ability...with a better handle. - The 16th pick gets the Cavaliers into the draft, at a decent spot. They could pick up either another SG or another PF, depending on their confidence in Powe and Hickson. The Cavs would also get considerably younger, as both players are only 24/25, and both have very good outlooks...and playing with LeBron.... could make a HUGE difference for them & the Cavs!

Why for Minnesota: The Timberwolves have only Corey Brewer to play SG, and although he is very good defensively, he is about as good as Varejao on offense. That has hurt the Wolves for the last two years. A.P. would be a great leader and vet for a young team that is sure to pick up another wing this off-season. The fact that the Wolves have an extra expiring contract, and smart-defensive player, who can shoot the "3" doesn't hurt either. Delonte West could be waived (Saving Minnesota over 4 million immediately), but they might actually keep him at his price; for his talent-level. He is good on offense, and can get hot, and he is an obove average defender, and can also play the point and shoot the "3". If the Wolves kept him, then they wouldn't need to waste money or a pick on another wing, and West would still be expiring. A win - win deal for Minny. Jefferson and Love never played well together because both need the ball on offense. Varejao is a defensive specialist who can also play Center. He can either start beside Love, or come off the bench and provide valuable relief to the starters...especially if Darko is re-signed, and is guaranteed a starting role. This trade saves Minny 4 to 8.5 million this coming season, and and 55 million over the next 3 years. This also saves Minny from the problem of having Rubio, Flynn, and Sessions all at the PG position, all with long contracts...with one of them (sessions?) likely to barely play, thus the Wolves basically paying him for nothing. The Wolves also would save an additional 2 million this season by trading the 16th pick, which they'd have likely used on a defensive big anyway; which they get in Varejao.

This looks like the type of deal that could help both teams dramatically. The Cavs not only get young at the center position, and bring in a young PG with a lot of upside, but they still would have Mo and Antawn to use in trades or to play off the bench in specialized roles. Varejao would be hard to lose, as he is so valuable...but Jefferson will do like Amare and have a huge impact in his 2nd year after surgery... and with LeBron next to him...he may challenge Howard for the all-star game! I know some of you don't believe it...but Jefferson is really, really good, and he is REALLY strong! He will not be backing down from Dwight, and he has a MUCH better offensive game than Dwight (or any center in the league,for that matter).

I know that nobody is really talking about Minny as a trade-partner...instead looking at the California teams...but I think that they may be the best team for us to trade with... besides, nobody is talking about them in the media...and that is where these trades usually come from - out of left field.

tidho · Post #135 » by **tidho** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:14 pm

I'd do that Minnesota deal.

Jefferson and Love together has been a problem for them. This does help Minnesota. The guys you have going to them are really good fits. I would expect them to waive West though.

Post #136 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:21 pm

Minnesota would not trade Jefferson in that package and definitely wouldn't be adding in a pick. Not to mention, Jefferson is not a center

heathmalc · Post #137 » by **heathmalc** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:09 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:Minnesota would not trade Jefferson in that package and definitely wouldn't be adding in a pick. Not to mention, Jefferson is not a center

First, Jefferson is a center, and has been one his entire career.If you don't know that, then I have been giving you WAY too much credit!!! Is Dwight Howard a PF because he isn't a 7-footer? ( he is a half inch taller than Jefferson) Because Jefferson is STRONGER than Dwight? Yeah, you heard me right! Jefferson is stronger than Dwight...and this isn't my opinion, it is a fact that was proved during the summer of 08 during the benefit "stars weight-lifting competition," when Jefferson benched 485 LBS... Dwight... he hit 370, and finished 5th! - (The fact that Al is an amateur weight lifter probably gave him an edge ...but that isnt the point here. Jefferson doesn't look as bulky as Dwight, but his strength is undeniable

Oh yeah, and you say Minnesota wouldn't do this package? Why not? They want to get rid of Jefferson BAD!!! He and Love do NOT get along...and Rambis & the front office like Love better because he has more range on his shots (probably why they keep losing). As for sessions... they have tried to give him away for free, and that didn't work... they have attempted to trade him, but with his contract, no team has been interested. As for the 16th pick... they are in talks to sell it to the Cavaliers anyway. So at-most, they may ask for the money that they would have gotten in the sale of the pick.

If you think that Minnesota wouldn't do this, you're wrong. They would...very quickly.

Note: When they came out of HS, both were projected as PF/C in the NBA. At the time, Dwight was the stronger of the two ( benched 225 more times than Al), their speed was similar, while Al had a better agility score. Both had gaudy numbers in HS (they both came to the NBA as HS draftees), but Dwight had a 1.75" wing-span advantage, and looked stronger, and proved it in the 225 test (Although Jefferson is stronger now). Dwight was rated about 30th in his class, while Jefferson was rated around 65th. Those of you that under-estimate Jefferson (I'm talking to you Rambis) will be chewing on your tongue after the up-coming season!

tidho · Post #138 » by **tidho** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:24 pm

heathmalc wrote:If you think that Minnesota wouldn't do this, you're wrong. They would...very quickly.

I'm not convinced they would, but don't know that they wouldn't. Seems like it should be presented to a broader audience for evaluation. I'll post it - with proper credit - on the trade forum.

heathmalc · Post #139 » by **heathmalc** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:31 pm

tidho wrote:
heathmalc wrote:If you think that Minnesota wouldn't do this, you're wrong. They would...very quickly.

I'm not convinced they would, but don't know that they wouldn't. Seems like it should be presented to a broader audience for evaluation. I'll post it - with proper credit - on the trade forum.

Thanks... but no real need for a "credit." It is just a speculative musing that a basketball fan had... not like I wrote up an important paper on stem-cell research.

mcfly1204 · Post #140 » by **mcfly1204** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:52 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:Minnesota would not trade Jefferson in that package and definitely wouldn't be adding in a pick. Not to mention, Jefferson is not a center

Jefferson is indeed not a center. He has only been playing center thus far in his career because the teams he has been with have not had better options. One of the main issues with the current Minnesota roster is that they do not have a legit center, both Love and Jefferson are power forwards. If you think Big Al is a center, then you probably think Varejao is one too.