Trade Ideas

Post #141 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:18 pm

Okay, well let me say that I'd do that if I were the Cavs. While Jefferson is not a center IMO (not because of his strength but I think he lacks the length to play the position) I do think he'd be a tremendous upgrade on the front line for the Cavs (except on defense where he's atrocious). I don't think Minnesota does it because I'm 90% sure that they'd get either better offers.

And Wolves fans are clearly not responding positively to this trade idea.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1020632

Post #142 » by **C.lupus** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:37 pm

heathmalc wrote:Oh yeah, and you say Minnesota wouldn't do this package? Why not? They want to get rid of Jefferson BAD!!! He and Love do NOT get along...and Rambis & the front office like Love better because he has more range on his shots (probably why they keep losing). As for sessions... they have tried to give him away for free, and that didn't work... they have attempted to trade him, but with his contract, no team has been interested. As for the 16th pick... they are in talks to sell it to the Cavaliers anyway. So at-most, they may ask for the money that they would have gotten in the sale of the pick.

Here's why not:
1. They don't want to get rid of Jefferson BAD. The report from a while back saying Jefferson and Love don't get along was unfounded. They get along fine. The problem is on the court. They both would be better with a strong defender next to them. The Wolves are looking to upgrade the wings and bring in a star-level player and they will most likely trade one of Jefferson or Love. It depends on the trade, though. They offered Jefferson to Philly for the #2.
2.Rambis MAY like Love a little better (or may not) but really only because he fits a little better with the direction Kahn/Rambis want to go - a run and gun team. Love's rebounding and outlet passing would be great. On the other hand Love's plodding wouldn't be and Love doesn't have the post scoring ability of Al.
3. Sessions could be had for the right deal but he isn't really a major factor one way or the other. One of Sessions or Flynn will be gone when Rubio comes over, until then, they need a backup PG and Sessions' contract is reasonable.
4. There is probably a zero % chance that they sell the 16 pick. Trade it? yes, probably but not sell it. Do you have a citation for that claim?
5. The Wolves have multiple assets (one of Love or Jefferson, three first round picks, Pekovic, $15 million in cap space) that they are trying to use to consolidate into a star-level player. What they need most is a #1 option. They will not just unload their best player for more role players and a bit more cap space UNLESS this is part of a bigger deal to bring in a big name player.

Hoop Dreams · Post #143 » by **Hoop Dreams** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:18 pm

heathmalc wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:Minnesota would not trade Jefferson in that package and definitely wouldn't be adding in a pick. Not to mention, Jefferson is not a center

First, Jefferson is a center, and has been one his entire career.If you don't know that, then I have been giving you WAY too much credit!!! Is Dwight Howard a PF because he isn't a 7-footer? ( he is a half inch taller than Jefferson) Because Jefferson is STRONGER than Dwight? Yeah, you heard me right! Jefferson is stronger than Dwight...and this isn't my opinion, it is a fact that was proved during the summer of 08 during the benefit "stars weight-lifting competition," when Jefferson benched 485 LBS... Dwight... he hit 370, and finished 5th! - (The fact that Al is an amateur weight lifter probably gave him an edge ...but that isnt the point here. Jefferson doesn't look as bulky as Dwight, but his strength is undeniable

Oh yeah, and you say Minnesota wouldn't do this package? Why not? They want to get rid of Jefferson BAD!!! He and Love do NOT get along...and Rambis & the front office like Love better because he has more range on his shots (probably why they keep losing). As for sessions... they have tried to give him away for free, and that didn't work... they have attempted to trade him, but with his contract, no team has been interested. As for the 16th pick... they are in talks to sell it to the Cavaliers anyway. So at-most, they may ask for the money that they would have gotten in the sale of the pick.

If you think that Minnesota wouldn't do this, you're wrong. They would...very quickly.

Note: When they came out of HS, both were projected as PF/C in the NBA. At the time, Dwight was the stronger of the two ( benched 225 more times than Al), their speed was similar, while Al had a better agility score. Both had gaudy numbers in HS (they both came to the NBA as HS draftees), but Dwight had a 1.75" wing-span advantage, and looked stronger, and proved it in the 225 test (Although Jefferson is stronger now). Dwight was rated about 30th in his class, while Jefferson was rated around 65th. Those of you that under-estimate Jefferson (I'm talking to you Rambis) will be chewing on your tongue after the up-coming season!

Wow, just wow...

:lol:

Gordon Bombay · Post #144 » by **Gordon Bombay** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:37 pm

Hoop Dreams wrote:Wow, just wow...

and that's the typical reaction that heath generates lol

funkatron101 · Post #145 » by **funkatron101** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:49 pm

heathmalc you are flat out full of crap.

heathmalc · Post #146 » by **heathmalc** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:56 pm

Gordon Bombay wrote:
and that's the typical reaction that heath generates lol

I can always count on you bomb... to .... be yourself. Get your diaper changed yet? :lol:

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I know that Wolves fans think that they'll get a lot out of Jefferson. I know what they want (a #1 option). Yet, they have one, and just haven't surrounded him with players that compliment him.
When Minny tried to send Jefferson (AND the #4 pick) to Philly for the #2 and Dalembert... they got hung-up on. Philly countered with Brand & #2 for Jefferson & #4 plus cash. NOBODY wants to take on Jefferson's contract...because they don't know if he'll ever return to what he was before the injury. Minny fans like to think Al will bring back something real great, but the fact is he wont. He'll bring back a couple decent players or some expirings and someone like Varejao... and that is only IF there is a team out there (like the Cavs) who would be willing to take the chance on him. Delonte West will save some team 4 million dollars this season... that is a million more than what a team can pay for a draft pick. Sessions is a throw-in player for Minny to make the salaries work, and to save themselves some extra $.

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Jefferson isn't a center because he is the only person that is available to play the spot.... he plays center because he defends centers much better than power-forwards...particularly fast ones, and stretch-4 types. You cannot compare Varejao to Jefferson. Varejao doesn't have the ability to body a center like Jefferson can, and he is nowhere near Al in strength. Varejao has the size to play center, but his frame is much smaller - which is why Andy mostly plays PF ecept on switches, where he can play the 2, 3, 4, or the 5 if need be.

Jefferson will not bring a All-star talent in trade because his contract is too long and it is unknown if he'll regain the quickness he used to have. He could end up like Miles...who never recovered, or he may end up like Amare, who came back at 99% after a couple years. But there is a chance that he wont...a chance that a team with an all-star wont take. Teams with all-stars that are on the block, or possibly up for a S&T, are looking for value. A high priced, long contract of a guy that may or may not return to form is not value!

The trade I proposed is approximately the best deal Minnesota will get out of a team for Al...and that is assuming the team taking Jefferson back has the owner who is willing to take that type of risk. Afterall, Varejao was all NBA 1st team defense, and 3rd in DPOY voting, and makes 50% of what Jefferson does. Andy is a known commodity, while Jefferson is a risk.

At any rate, it was an idea...we'll see what happens in Minny, and what they can get for Jefferson...if anyone wants him.

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There are some blogs and forums that I read that frequently have rumors that supposedly come from good sources. One that came out a couple weeks ago that I ignored was some guy said that New York, Memphis and Cleveland were trying to trade for Chris Paul. I ignored the rumor as BS...but HoopWorld mentioned on their rumor page that Memphis is trying to make a trade with New Orleans for Chris Paul or Collison.... No mention of Cavs or Knicks... but it seems to lend a little credence to the rumor I heard a couple weeks back. I can only hope the Cavs would be in talks with
New Orleans for Paul & Okafur!!!! I'd gladly take Omeka's contract to get Paul...in a Mississippi second! BUT, I think the chances of NOrleans doing that is about 0.000000000000000000000000001% regardless of what rumors are posted by reputable sites/journalists. But, it is fun to dream.

funkatron101 · Post #147 » by **funkatron101** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:32 pm

heathmalc wrote:
I know that Wolves fans think that they'll get a lot out of Jefferson. I know what they want (a #1 option). Yet, they have one, and just haven't surrounded him with players that compliment him.
When Minny tried to send Jefferson (AND the #4 pick) to Philly for the #2 and Dalembert... they got hung-up on. Philly countered with Brand & #2 for Jefferson & #4 plus cash. NOBODY wants to take on Jefferson's contract...because they don't know if he'll ever return to what he was before the injury. Minny fans like to think Al will bring back something real great, but the fact is he wont. He'll bring back a couple decent players or some expirings and someone like Varejao... and that is only IF there is a team out there (like the Cavs) who would be willing to take the chance on him. Delonte West will save some team 4 million dollars this season... that is a million more than what a team can pay for a draft pick. Sessions is a throw-in player for Minny to make the salaries work, and to save themselves some extra $.

Yep still full of crap. Sight some sources if you are going to speak in absolutes. All these are are loosely based fan rumors and you are quoting them as fact. Kahn however has gone on the record saying that he does not want Brand and questions whether or not Turner would compliment Rubio in the backcourt.

While certainly not definitive, there is an article that disputes your premise that no one wants Al Jefferson.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16511

Prince + #7 for Al Jefferson has been agreed upon as fair value by fans. Your proposed offer doesn't come close.

Post #148 » by **Rise Against** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:46 am

Heath said that Tom Izzo accepted a head coaching job from the Cavs.. I wouldn't take him seriously, although it is kind of amusing to see what he has to dream about next.

heathmalc · Post #149 » by **heathmalc** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:20 am

Exile23 wrote:Heath said that Tom Izzo accepted a head coaching job from the Cavs.. I wouldn't take him seriously, although it is kind of amusing to see what he has to dream about next.

"I" never said he did anything. I had a quote from a newspaper & web sourse that said it...and I posted links to both. Don't be ignorant and do what you are accusing me of.

funkatron101 wrote:While certainly not definitive, there is an article that disputes your premise that no one wants Al Jefferson.

In talking to a number of league sources in the run-up to the draft, HOOPSWORLD keeps hearing one name, in particular, involving possible draft day trades. We've heard plenty of rumors involving Minnesota Timberwolves forward Al Jefferson, and it turns out that where there's smoke there is definitely fire. Quite a few teams have indicated that Al Jefferson is one of their primary targets this summer. HoopsWorld.com

It would appear you are right about nobody wanting Jefferson's contract. Stein (ESPN) is the one that said that, and I assumed that to be right, as what was said in his chat, and Ric on sportscenter, seemed to back it up.

Tay for Jefferson????????????? Are you serious???? If Minnesota did that, then Kaun needs shot!

Post #150 » by **Rise Against** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:42 am

heathmalc wrote:"I" never said he did anything. I had a quote from a newspaper & web sourse that said it...and I posted links to both. Don't be ignorant and do what you are accusing me of.

It was just the misleading title, as if it was official.. No worries, I've seen you do this numerous times.

bcortell · Post #151 » by **bcortell** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:09 am

heathmalc wrote:
Exile23 wrote:Heath said that Tom Izzo accepted a head coaching job from the Cavs.. I wouldn't take him seriously, although it is kind of amusing to see what he has to dream about next.

"I" never said he did anything. I had a quote from a newspaper & web sourse that said it...and I posted links to both. Don't be ignorant and do what you are accusing me of.

funkatron101 wrote:While certainly not definitive, there is an article that disputes your premise that no one wants Al Jefferson.

In talking to a number of league sources in the run-up to the draft, HOOPSWORLD keeps hearing one name, in particular, involving possible draft day trades. We've heard plenty of rumors involving Minnesota Timberwolves forward Al Jefferson, and it turns out that where there's smoke there is definitely fire. Quite a few teams have indicated that Al Jefferson is one of their primary targets this summer. HoopsWorld.com

It would appear you are right about nobody wanting Jefferson's contract. Stein (ESPN) is the one that said that, and I assumed that to be right, as what was said in his chat, and Ric on sportscenter, seemed to back it up.

Tay for Jefferson????????????? Are you serious???? If Minnesota did that, then Kaun needs shot!

Don't get your panties in a bunch, Heath.

funkatron101 · Post #152 » by **funkatron101** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:23 am

heathmalc wrote:Tay for Jefferson????????????? Are you serious???? If Minnesota did that, then Kaun needs shot!

I'm arguing with someone who can't speak english. sigh...

heathmalc · Post #153 » by **heathmalc** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:57 pm

Cavaliers doing a S&T for Bosh? Seems unlikely to me, but if it did happen, I'd imagine that at-least a 3rd team would be involved. At any rate, that seems to be the hot topic right now; a supposed call from the Cavs to the Raptors, to find out what it'd take to get Bosh in Cleveland. My guess: LeBron.

Post #154 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:28 pm

This is when I question the logic of max contracts. Seriously, there is no logical way that Bosh and LeBron should make the same amount of money. Bosh is not a player to build around so much as a super second. I really like him, but he's not worth the max.

gflem · Post #155 » by **gflem** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:25 pm

I agree Outlaw, but since the owners cant control themselves and the NBA doesnt want to end up like MLB there isnt another viable option. The salary cap has kept the NBA competitive as well as things like the Stepian rule. Unlike a real life business, these owners treat their teams like expensive toys, willing to lose money to try to win big.
Professional sports ownership is ego driven, so a win at all costs mentality is the norm outside of the LA Clippers. For the inept owners, its a recipe for disaster like what the Knicks are coming out of. And we here in Cleveland see in the Indians what a frugal organization without the means to play with the big boys can do to fan interest in a given sport.
The big thing in the NBA is that the union decided that killing the golden goose wasnt good for anybody, and for our sake I hope they havent forgotten that during the current negotiations. I also hope the owners are up front about the financial situation of the league and individual teams so that they can have honest and open negotiations, otherwise 2011 is going to suck for us hoops fans.
Sorry for the rant, buy I guess that the stars in the NBA can make up for the max salary situation with off the court earnings, since that is still a free market the mega stars can still out earn their counterparts that way.

humblebum · Post #156 » by **humblebum** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:59 pm

How would Cavs fans feel about an S&T package centered around Rondo, Davis, #19 pick and future firsts for Lebron? Obviously this would mean that Lebron specifically requested to be traded and was using New York, New Jersey, etc. as leverage in such a scenario.

Mr Loggins · Post #157 » by **Mr Loggins** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:35 pm

humblebum wrote:How would Cavs fans feel about an S&T package centered around Rondo, Davis, #19 pick and future firsts for Lebron? Obviously this would mean that Lebron specifically requested to be traded and was using New York, New Jersey, etc. as leverage in such a scenario.

Pass.

I think Rondo will be Penny Hardaway 2.0 ----> A guy who you think will be sweet on his own and you can build around, but when he becomes "the man" he wilts.

Post #158 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:36 pm

I still can't seem to believe that Rondo is that good a player. He's okay, but he's going to be severely overpriced in the not to distant future. Davis is redundant since we already have Varejao and while I love picks, I just don't see this as being enough unless LeBron is begging to go to Boston.

Triumph36 · Post #159 » by **Triumph36** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:45 pm

LeBron is not going to want to go to a team with no future.

LongLiveHinkie · Post #160 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:48 pm

Some guy is on our board who claims he's a Cavs insider. He's only posted on our board by the way and never on this one for some weird reason. But he says the Cavs are close to trading Mo Williams for the #5 pick and Udrih and then they want to ship the #5 to the Sixers for Iguodala.

The whole thing sounds like a load of BS though. Any of you guys know vandy0925?