2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

[andyhop]

The thing is that even if Rubio decides he doesn't want to come over to play for the Wolves and tries to force a trade he just has more value next off season when he can come over than he does now.So even presuming that despite all of the evidence he won't play for the Wolves trading him now unless it is a slam dunk makes no sense.

Trading him now for less than a big star basically ends Kahn's career immediately.

The thing is...its unlikely you get a better offer than Devin Harris and a chance to move up to take the pick of your choice. And what happens if he gets hurt? A year is a long time. Sadly, either way...i think Kahn is a lame duck.

I am sure we could get a much better offer for him than that if we wanted to shop him.A one spot jump where we are in this draft isn't worth much and Harris isn't worth much if anything to us.

Sure he could get injured or he could improve massively just as any other player can, so that part of your argument is irrelevant.Its not like we would be turning down an amazing deal here that if he did get injured we have blown our shot at competing.

[enetric]

I would still like to know if we are targeting a specific player at 19 or if we are moving up to move up a second time.
The 19th and Courtney Lee or a future pick like the GSW pick should be good for top 10 range.

If we stay at 19 and draft Favors, unless someone lotto projected like Babbitt, George or Henry drop for some unexpected reason, I imagine we are targeting one of Avery Bradley, Eric Bledsoe, James Anderson, Elliot Williams or even Dominique Jones or Jordan Crawford if their stock has risen that far. I mean even if a guy is projected in the very early twenties we love, it's not a reach to say we trade up to wherever the opportunity allows as long as we think he isn't going to last to 27th.

I still think we are targeting one of the 3 I already mentioned, that being Paul George, Luke Babbitt or Xavier Henry. I think it's very possible we move up somewhere between 9 and 12 with the 19th and Courtney Lee.

I still believe the primary objective is....shave cap space.

So before this is over...I wouldnt be shocked to see us try to send 19 and Devin Harris for a higher pick. Who has a good pick and cap space? Kings and Twolves too high. Clips dont need Devin. So who is out there with a pick worth trading Devin?

Or, Yi and the pick for a slightly higher pick. That would make the most sense. Keep Devin, dump Yi and the #27...and deal with Humphries a week from now. Only thing left to do...can you trade Dooling and cash to get another asset get out of having his buyout hit the cap?

Just my thought of the moment...we are looking at ways to get into two max contract range. And that means, either Devin goes...or Yi/Humphries goes...and most likely the pick as well.

It just seems to make sense with all we have pieced together the last two days. They explored ways to convert Devin into Rubio if I had to guess (most of the cap savings you need....just move out Humphries...done) or convert to Paul and Okafor, and trim down to one max contract for Lebron....Paul in tow....you have one star in the fold.

So? my thinking...we arent targeting picks as much as we are trying to build assets to trade to help create cap space.

[enetric]

The thing is that even if Rubio decides he doesn't want to come over to play for the Wolves and tries to force a trade he just has more value next off season when he can come over than he does now.So even presuming that despite all of the evidence he won't play for the Wolves trading him now unless it is a slam dunk makes no sense.

Trading him now for less than a big star basically ends Kahn's career immediately.

The thing is...its unlikely you get a better offer than Devin Harris and a chance to move up to take the pick of your choice. And what happens if he gets hurt? A year is a long time. Sadly, either way...i think Kahn is a lame duck.

I am sure we could get a much better offer for him than that if we wanted to shop him.A one spot jump where we are in this draft isn't worth much and Harris isn't worth much if anything to us.

Sure he could get injured or he could improve massively just as any other player can, so that part of your argument is irrelevant.Its not like we would be turning down an amazing deal here that if he did get injured we have blown our shot at competing.

I dont understand that comment...not worth much of anything to us? You are being offered a young proven all star caliber guy on a good contract. Being dismissinve of him..dont get that. Now, I have no problem with the idea that your Gm wont do it...or that you dont want to do it. But my point is...this is hardly a bad offer. Yi Jinalian was a pretty exciting overseas prospect as well. A year later...it was Richard Jefferson.

You think you are getting Derron Williams for Rubio? Good luck.

[vincecarter4pres]

I would still like to know if we are targeting a specific player at 19 or if we are moving up to move up a second time.
The 19th and Courtney Lee or a future pick like the GSW pick should be good for top 10 range.

If we stay at 19 and draft Favors, unless someone lotto projected like Babbitt, George or Henry drop for some unexpected reason, I imagine we are targeting one of Avery Bradley, Eric Bledsoe, James Anderson, Elliot Williams or even Dominique Jones or Jordan Crawford if their stock has risen that far. I mean even if a guy is projected in the very early twenties we love, it's not a reach to say we trade up to wherever the opportunity allows as long as we think he isn't going to last to 27th.

I still think we are targeting one of the 3 I already mentioned, that being Paul George, Luke Babbitt or Xavier Henry. I think it's very possible we move up somewhere between 9 and 12 with the 19th and Courtney Lee.

I still believe the primary objective is....shave cap space.

So before this is over...I wouldnt be shocked to see us try to send 19 and Devin Harris for a higher pick. Who has a good pick and cap space? Kings and Twolves too high. Clips dont need Devin. So who is out there with a pick worth trading Devin?

Or, Yi and the pick for a slightly higher pick. That would make the most sense. Keep Devin, dump Yi and the #27...and deal with Humphries a week from now. Only thing left to do...can you trade Dooling and cash to get another asset get out of having his buyout hit the cap?

Just my thought of the moment...we are looking at ways to get into two max contract range. And that means, either Devin goes...or Yi/Humphries goes...and most likely the pick as well.

It just seems to make sense with all we have pieced together the last two days. They explored ways to convert Devin into Rubio if I had to guess (most of the cap savings you need....just move out Humphries...done) or convert to Paul and Okafor, and trim down to one max contract for Lebron....Paul in tow....you have one star in the fold.

So? my thinking...we arent targeting picks as much as we are trying to build assets to trade to help create cap space.

Haha, thinking alike again.
I just posted this on "the other website"...

Another thought I had, which is a little depressing as a fan in a sense, is we want to dump Yi for an early 2nd rounder and pure cap space and the teams we're talking to won't do it for the 27th and 31st, but will for a pick in the late teens or so.

[andyhop]

I dont understand that comment...not worth much of anything to us? You are being offered a young proven all star caliber guy on a good contract. Being dismissinve of him..dont get that. Now, I have no problem with the idea that your Gm wont do it...or that you dont want to do it. But my point is...this is hardly a bad offer. Yi Jinalian was a pretty exciting overseas prospect as well. A year later...it was Richard Jefferson.

You think you are getting Derron Williams for Rubio? Good luck.

Harris is Ok ,he just isn't anything special that you look back on in the future and go Damn if only we took him when we had the chance.Whereas Rubio has the possibility of being just that sort of player.

As can be seen from your experience since you got him he just isn't a difference maker for a rebuilding side.

[enetric]

I never thought he was. I felt he was a steal trade wise when we got him considering Kidd's age.

In reverse...I have no problem with how you feel. Seriously. Its just that it isnt the reality of how it ends up if Rubio continues to publically stick his ass in your face and tell you that he wants no part of your franchise.

Mt argument isnt that you should do it. My argument is that...if in fact your Gm covets a specifc guy in this draft and wont be happy with whoever slides to him...and he can see the end of the shel game with Rubio is a big fat turd on his front lawn made by Rubio's agent...you know what? Devin and the #3 become an out of this mess. It becomes a chance to save face.

And that is all I have ever said. This was a good offer. Not a how can you turn it down. it was a good....FAIR offer. You ask for the #27 too if you are Kahn and you want the bail out. if not...life moves on.

Deep down you know I am right. For 3 years your board told us that to get KG it was going to take 2 all stars, picks and prospects. Al Jeff later....it was all moot.

[enetric]

C.Ford Mock 7.0 preview



Our full mock, with over 5,000 words of analysis won't be up until Thursday morning, but based on the latest chatter, here's a sneak preview for tomorrow:

1. Wizards - John Wall

2. Sixers - Evan Turner

3. Nets - Derrick Favors

4. Wolves - Wes Johnson

5. Kings - DeMarcus Cousins

6. Warriors - Ekpe Udoh

7. Pistons - Greg Monroe

8. Clippers - Al-Farouq Aminu

9. Jazz - Ed Davis

10. Pacers - Paul George

[vincecarter4pres]

I think it's crazy Udoh is being projected that high.
I wouldn't take Aminu over George either.

[enetric]

I know you love George...he is your guy. Keeping an eye on him for draft day.

Playing with something.

What about 27/31 is for one higher pick. That pick, say #19 and Devin to the Kings for the #5. if they want Yi too...fine.

Then, #3,#5 and Dooling for Paul and Oka-crap.

What do you think? Hornets clearly getting PAID to make the move to salary dump and rebuild no?

[Jersey Generals]

I don't know if the Kings do that deal, especially if Cousins is still on the board.

[vincecarter4pres]

I don't see Sacto doing that one.

[enetric]

he will be. the question is...just because they have decide not to let him slide...does that mean they actually covet him?

They actually need a PG...get a 19 to go with it?

Yeah...who knows. I am just trying to come up with a team with cap space who might give up a good pick for Devin...and then add that pick with ours to NO since i dont think they want Devin coming back...and that is where the Okafor issue is. We can take Okafor if we can clear our own guys out. We get Paul...miving Devin is a must. So?

Feel free to find someone else.

The Clips/Bulls rumor is what got me thinking about this. How to get our man and our cap room by making multiple moves.

BTW...Clips are fools if they take that Deng deal. Its horrible considering how much time that guy missed and how mediocre he actually is.

[enetric]

Ok so help me come up with ideas for what to do with Devin. If not the Kings...where? Devin and 27/31 (or 19) to Memphis for the #12? Do they have enough cap space?

[vincecarter4pres]

Indy seems like the logical destination for Devin in exchange for the 10th pick and maybe Rush or a future pick.

I'm starting to think that if we have to take back a lot of salary from New Orleans and we balked at it being Okafor, we may wind up including an extra asset like a future pick or two and taking David West. I have always said that they would be foolish to include West in a CP3 deal because he could likely bring back something else on his own, but at the same time I maintained that something else wasn't necessarily going to be anything great.

Maybe we make it something along the lines of:

NJ sends:
Devin Harris
3rd overall
Yi Jianlian
GSW 1st

NJ recieves:
Chris Paul
David West

NOH sends:
Chris Paul
David West

NOH recieves:
3rd overall
10th overall
GSW 1st
Yi Jianlian
TJ Ford

Indianna sends:
10th overall
TJ Ford

Indianna recieves:
Devin Harris
Julian Wright

Then again, maybe NOH wants Devin and sends out Collison in another deal?
Or they would rather have T Will and send out Paul with Posey as the bad contract?

We will see. All this can culminate into nothing but the standard media hype and rumors or he could wind up in Minnesota, but I have been saying it all the time, NJ has one of the better if not best packages around to put together for Chris Paul and he isn't necessarily going to want to go to a small market team with no direction, that will be hard to attract other free agents to. No he can't literally veto a trade, but best believe if he makes a huge stink in private about going to a certain team, that team is not going to want to mortgage all their best future franchise assets on a guy that will absolutely bolt, no questions asked in 2 seasons.

[enetric]

Indy is way over the cap...so it didnt help send the payroll NO wouldnt want to acquire. if they were willing to take payroll...why take Ford over Devin?

I dont know...i dont see this one. What I think it takes is finding someone who will take Devin without having to salary match. We can take on Paul and Okafor without having to force NO to take devin...but we need him gone in a deal to have the cap space.

We are looking to find a way to get our cap space, get the picks and assets they want...and help them dump what they want.,,which I assume is Okafor...(Peja never happening).

West would be awesome but I dont see it.

[deviljets7]

E,

I think you are underestimating the difficulty of moving Devin Harris and others for cap space.

In regards to Harris, let's think about it. How many teams in the league 1.) Have enough cap room or a TPE large enough to absorb Harris' salary. 2.) Has the need for a PG and 3.) Can afford to pay him and/or willing to damage their FA flexibility for Harris.

Let's look at the teams who meet requirement #1
Chicago
Dallas
Clippers
Miami
Minnesota
New York
Oklahoma City
Sacramento
Washington

Nine teams total. We can quickly eliminate Chicago (Rose), Oklahoma City (Westbrook) and Washington (Wall) since none of them need Harris.

I think you can also eliminate Dallas. While Kidd/Terry/Beaubois aren't as good as Harris, there is more than enough talent and depth there that I don't see the logic in sacrificing their ability to get an impact player for another PG (let alone add in valuable youth as well). It can be used to fill a much bigger hole for the team. The same applies to the Clippers IMO with all the money they currently have tied up in Baron Davis.

At this point, we're already down to 4 teams (Miami, Minnesota, New York and Sacramento). While Miami and New York need PGs, to compromise their abilities to land 2 MAX FAs and give us that ability to do it would be straight up insanity so they are out.

Now you're left with just 2 teams: Minnesota and Sacramento. With Minnesota you keep on bringing up their issues with Rubio and while all that may be true, you're forgetting one thing: Jonny Flynn. Yes he had a disappointing rookie year, but he's one year removed from being the #6 pick and according to rumors declined a trade of him for pick #10. Even if you are right about Rubio situation, why would you trade his rights for a guy that takes the job away from someone you think as highly of as Flynn? It just doesn't add up.

As for Sacramento. They have a hole at PG (Beno bounced back last year, but lets be real on what he is), but you have a very ball-dominant combo guard in Evans with a limited outside shot. The fit here is pretty questionable.

So when it's all said and done, there are really only 2 fits (and they are questionable ones for various reasons) for Harris and we have not even talked about the asking price here. With other teams desperately looking to shave salary and/or create cap room, there is enough leverage going on where they can get legitimate players/prospects such as Deng, Beasley and others without paying the demands you have brought up thus far.

Maybe there is a creative 3 or 4 team trade where Harris goes elsewhere and a team like the Clippers, Wizards or Thunder get players that better fit them. But there are just very few if any options where you can dump Harris AND get big time value.

[deviljets7]

As for Yi and Humphries. Let's look at some of the rumors and trades of the past few weeks.

We all know and heavily debated the infamous Beasley/Dooling rumor. Now, the validity of it is up for debate, but if Miami couldn't give away a former #2 pick who averaged 15 points per game, that sure doesn't speak well about our chances of giving away our guys without compensation.

Also, let's take a look at the Daquan Cook trade today. Miami had to give up pick 18 to move Cook's salary. Cook is garbage, but he also makes about $1 million less than Hump and $2 million than Yi. I know you can counter with "Miami didn't want to keep the pick anyway" but there's enough rumors of teams wanting to get back into the draft that they could have dealt it for a heavily protected future pick or something.

Maybe Yi's financial impact allows him to not have negative value, but it's hard to see him having positive value if the goal is to clear the $4 million off the cap.

[enetric]

Actually...i didnt underestimate it at all. In fact you just validated what it is I was looking at completely.

I already zeroed in on the same two teams....actually three. Double check Memphis who wasnt on your list. Sure...Rudy Gay...so I guess there are choices to be made.

Next,...I LAUGH at you for calling Deng legitimate anything. Seriously...barf to him and his contract.


Next...not looking for big value. Was looking for a way to turn him and a lower pick into a higher pick.

Next issue...my Rubio comments were part of a super annoying back and forth where i was making a specific point. At no time was I implying that they have to deal Rubio or should deal Rubio. Just that...the offer wasnt horrible IF...and again...IF you are ready to accept he aint coming, is holding you hostage to get to a specific market, and you absolutely have a set target in this draft. So? Take the life line was my point. its a qualified point. It was never a...how can you turn that down thing.

Flynn? Bad pick. Sorry...it was. I siad it then. I had about 5 PG's over Flynn on my list last draft and right now they all look better so far. he will make a fine back up....or...replace him and yeah make that trade with Indy if it was real.

So I guess the question is still the same. Can we move Devin and create cap room? Or a situation where NO doesnt have to take him back and he is off our books? That is the point. And if we cant...you have to wonder. Why in the hell did we really want Wall in the first place????

[enetric]

Seriously? And we are saying hey...cant deal Devin??????

The Celtics are shopping Kendrick Perkins and the 19th overall pick to teams high in the lottery, according to a source.

Perkins was injured in Game 6 of the NBA Finals.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... z0rl88hcdD

[deviljets7]

Actually...i didnt underestimate it at all. In fact you just validated what it is I was looking at completely.

I already zeroed in on the same two teams....actually three. Double check Memphis who wasnt on your list. Sure...Rudy Gay...so I guess there are choices to be made.

Next,...I LAUGH at you for calling Deng legitimate anything. Seriously...barf to him and his contract.


Next...not looking for big value. Was looking for a way to turn him and a lower pick into a higher pick.

Next issue...my Rubio comments were part of a super annoying back and forth where i was making a specific point. At no time was I implying that they have to deal Rubio or should deal Rubio. Just that...the offer wasnt horrible IF...and again...IF you are ready to accept he aint coming, is holding you hostage to get to a specific market, and you absolutely have a set target in this draft. So? Take the life line was my point. its a qualified point. It was never a...how can you turn that down thing.

Flynn? Bad pick. Sorry...it was. I siad it then. I had about 5 PG's over Flynn on my list last draft and right now they all look better so far. he will make a fine back up....or...replace him and yeah make that trade with Indy if it was real.

So I guess the question is still the same. Can we move Devin and create cap room? Or a situation where NO doesnt have to take him back and he is off our books? That is the point. And if we cant...you have to wonder. Why in the hell did we really want Wall in the first place????

I'll address the points one by one:

1. With Memphis, I think you forgot to account for the cap holds that come with restricted free agents. For a RFA, the cap hold is 3 times what they made the year before. As a result, the only way they are under the cap is if they renounce the rights to both Gay and Brewer. For that reason, they aren't really a viable option. I know you don't like Gay, but even you have to admit that essentially giving up Gay and Brewer for Harris isn't an especially bright move and that's assuming a straight Harris dump. Even if you think Gay is going to be overpaid, unlike with UFAs MEM has the leverage to turn Gay into picks in a s&t (see Kenyon Martin and Joe Johnson).

Conceivably ATL can be under the cap if/when they lose/renounce Joe Johnson, but that requires time that frankly NJ doesn't have.

2. Does Deng's contract suck? Yes. Does Deng have anywhere near the value of Harris? Absolutely not. I know there's a lot of crazy rumors/ideas out there, but by many accounts the Bulls are willing to pay to remove Deng. Say you are the Clippers, a team with cap space, no shot at LeBron and a hole the size of the Staples Center at SF. Which makes more sense, getting Deng and incentives from the Bulls or having to pay assets for Harris?

3. As for Rubio/Flynn. I think everyone outside of Minnesota can acknowledge it was a stupid pick. Hard to argue otherwise when you passed up on Curry, Jenning and Holiday plus you pissed off Rubio in the process. But in the end, this isn't about what we think the T-Wolves should do, but what they will do. We may think Flynn was a stupid pick and should be shipped out, but if they did turn down Flynn for pick #10, I can't see them giving up on him and bringing in another PG, regardless of the Rubio situation.

With moving Harris, two different issues. Is he movable in a deal that is cap neutral? Yes and I think he can fetch some good value. But with the supply and demand of cap space, trading Harris in a deal that fetches major cap space is a lot harder.