Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space?

[yungal07]

Have you and Dat met up to perform "Ebony and Ivory" at a karaoke night in Columbus yet? This has to happen.

Oh damn.

[Hoopalotta]

Have you and Dat met up to perform "Ebony and Ivory" at a karaoke night in Columbus yet? This has to happen.

[nate33]

I don't know why, but I haven't yet met Dat2U. We really need to arrange to go to the next Cavs/Wiz game.

[Kanyewest]

What is the reason behind this change of mindset now about Gil's game? Is it just because the Wizards were forced to put the ball in Gil's hands in the recent past, pairing him with woeful ball-handlers (like Randy Foye) and with guys with little defensive skills and didn't have the flexibility to guard the tougher opposing guard (like Randy Foye)? Just because Gil was forced to play with the ball in his hands in recent years, doesn't mean that being the lone ball-dominant guard is where he is most effective.

I disagree with the first notion that Foye is someone who is a "woeful ball handler". He has a pretty good handle IMO although I would say he isn't a great enough decision maker at this point of his career (although I do think he would alright in a 2 guard offense). I do agree with your second point though that Foye was unable to guard the tougher defensive assignments, which is something John Wall can do w. Still, I wouldn't even call an Arenas/Foye backcourt a failure for spot up minutes given that Saunders rarely seemed to play the two of them together.

[Dat2U]

Have you and Dat met up to perform "Ebony and Ivory" at a karaoke night in Columbus yet? This has to happen.

Hey Nate, sounds like a plan. First time John Wall plays in Cleveland makes sense. Should be alot of good seats available for home games up there next season.

[BruceO]

Quick question with vince possibly expiring soon, not sure when he's off the books but someone mentioned 4mill buy out which i don't know either way about, could we theoretically trade with orlando for vince using arenas. Send Arenas to Orlando, Send vince to Minnesota which may be trying to get rid of Al jefferson and possibly sweeten ( or not) in order to get the pick as well. So orlando gets Arenas, we get Al jefferson and possibly favors or cousins and Minnesota get Vince plus whatever else we may or may not need to throw in.

[Dat2U]

Oh and I pass on Arenas for VC. It's not horrible but I don't like it. I don't get a good feeling from it. I think Arenas would terrorize us in our divison for the next four years.

I'm not totally against dumping Gil eventually but I honestly am intrigued enough to want to see how a Wall/Arenas backcourt would shake out. After two years of watching the likes of Mike James, Dom McGuire, Earl Boykins, Javaris Crittenton etc start in the backcourt for us, I figure at minimum the franchise owes us at least a chance to see what Wall & Arenas could do together.

[WizStorm]

What is the reason behind this change of mindset now about Gil's game? Is it just because the Wizards were forced to put the ball in Gil's hands in the recent past, pairing him with woeful ball-handlers (like Randy Foye) and with guys with little defensive skills and didn't have the flexibility to guard the tougher opposing guard (like Randy Foye)? Just because Gil was forced to play with the ball in his hands in recent years, doesn't mean that being the lone ball-dominant guard is where he is most effective.

I disagree with the first notion that Foye is someone who is a "woeful ball handler". He has a pretty good handle IMO although I would say he isn't a great enough decision maker at this point of his career (although I do think he would alright in a 2 guard offense). I do agree with your second point though that Foye was unable to guard the tougher defensive assignments, which is something John Wall can do w. Still, I wouldn't even call an Arenas/Foye backcourt a failure for spot up minutes given that Saunders rarely seemed to play the two of them together.

Fair enough. Personally I don't consider a guy that just pounds the ball into a floor a good ball-handler. Sure he could control the dribble adequately, but just never went anywhere with it. I'm talking more about a player that can actually run the offense and allow Gil play off the ball for long stretches of time.

[Kanyewest]

Fair enough. Personally I don't consider a guy that just pounds the ball into a floor a good ball-handler. Sure he could control the dribble adequately, but just never went anywhere with it. I'm talking more about a player that can actually run the offense and allow Gil play off the ball for long stretches of time.

The problem with Foye IMO is that he didn't seem to have enough explosiveness to attack the basket and draw help defenders enough consistently. I personally don't think Hughes was a great ballhandler, especially when he ran the 1 on 4 fastbreak on occasion in a Wizards uniform. But at least he was able to attack the basket, convert at a high enough rate, and get to the line.

Also factor in that a 2009 Arenas (at least for the first half of the season) was still trying to find his legs and was not the same player as even a 2004-05 Arenas. Arenas wasn't consistently knocking down 3s nor taking as many in 2009-10 season that he played. That being said, I thought Arenas was going to have to adjust and reacclimate himself in the 1st half of the season, but would probably return close to form sometime after the all star break.

The primary problem of course was that the Wizards ran a offense where the point guard primarily ran the offense. If Arenas and Foye had shared ball handling opportunities, (or even Arenas and Butler) the Wizards would have been a much better team.

[LyricalRico]

Quick question with vince possibly expiring soon, not sure when he's off the books but someone mentioned 4mill buy out which i don't know either way about, could we theoretically trade with orlando for vince using arenas. Send Arenas to Orlando, Send vince to Minnesota which may be trying to get rid of Al jefferson and possibly sweeten ( or not) in order to get the pick as well. So orlando gets Arenas, we get Al jefferson and possibly favors or cousins and Minnesota get Vince plus whatever else we may or may not need to throw in.

Decent idea. I was also thinking we might be able to buyout Vince on the cheap since he'd definitely be able to get at least the MLE on the open market, if not more. That would translate into instant savings and maybe we can even get him to give up the $4M he's guaranteed next year.

[hands11]

What was the chemistry like when arenas played with hughes and how will this chemistry be any different than with.

Wall is everything...and I mean almost identical to highes except that he is way more explosive. Both were long slasher with iffy jumpshots. Wall is longer than arenas...
gil's ability to theive next to hughes should alleve any fears of his chemistry with wall. I would love for some to break down the differences between hughes and wall.

Viewing videos of Wall, he is definitely a better finisher than Hughes. If Arenas, Wall and Blatche would spend the summer creating some chemistry, oh this team will be one to reckon with. We know how good a passer Blatche is.

Exactly. Plus we are going to add more then just that.

Moving Gil at this point would just be silly. His contract is big but not something that is killing us right now. We can move him later for more if we need to.

[hands11]

Actually, the player getting bashed here is VC. The funny thing is - last offseason, there were a dozen posters here pulling for trades to bring VC here, and I was practically by myself saying it would be foolish to trade for him. And now, there doesn't seem to be any pro VC posters. And the real irony is - it would be an absolutely great trade for the Wiz to trade Arenas for VC. It won't happen only because Orlando would be crazy to do it (because of money - a little matter of roughly $60 mil).

Practically ? Would be interesting to take a poll on that.

I know I didn't want him.

[hands11]

Oh and I pass on Arenas for VC. It's not horrible but I don't like it. I don't get a good feeling from it. I think Arenas would terrorize us in our divison for the next four years.

I'm not totally against dumping Gil eventually but I honestly am intrigued enough to want to see how a Wall/Arenas backcourt would shake out. After two years of watching the likes of Mike James, Dom McGuire, Earl Boykins, Javaris Crittenton etc start in the backcourt for us, I figure at minimum the franchise owes us at least a chance to see what Wall & Arenas could do together.

That is it in a nut shell. We have been through the bad. We at least deserve to see how this works.

This isn't like waiting to see Gil, CB and AJ again. That was never the answer because that was three key players and not one was a post presence. Not one of them a stand out defensive player. I beat that drum till my ears hurt.

But with Dray and maybe others in the mix. With Gil at SG/PG and not PG/SG. With a true PG.
With Gil finally getting his goofy bone put in check.

I want to see this before we trade him.

[team_cancer02]

Ernie ain't no joke. His brilliant, undeterred mind has led us to various successful seasons this past decade.

Whether it is handling draft picks, blockbuster trades, or signing players he demonstrates his ability to thrive on pressure and make the right moves time and time again.

With his excellence, a Gilbert for Vince trade is not only not out of the question, but is seemingly bound to occur.

I salute you, Ernie Grunfeld. While you're at it, let's trade Wall and Miller for expirings so we could sign a strong strong FA. It's quite obvious everyone wants to play for us, a huge huge city that puts NY and CHI to shame.

That way, when our starting roster consists of "I love dribbling the air out of the ball" Randy Foye, "Mr. fundamentally sound" Nick Young, "I got no J so I hail the ball at the rim and go for the offensive board" Al Thornton, "Just let me get my damn shots and stats so I could be cool!" Andray Blatche, and "I will try to block his shot, even if it means picking up my 4th foul in 5 minutes" Javale Mcghee.... we could win 50 games and once again, be the dominating force of the NBA.

[verbal8]

Quick question with vince possibly expiring soon, not sure when he's off the books but someone mentioned 4mill buy out which i don't know either way about, could we theoretically trade with orlando for vince using arenas. Send Arenas to Orlando, Send vince to Minnesota which may be trying to get rid of Al jefferson and possibly sweeten ( or not) in order to get the pick as well. So orlando gets Arenas, we get Al jefferson and possibly favors or cousins and Minnesota get Vince plus whatever else we may or may not need to throw in.

Decent idea. I was also thinking we might be able to buyout Vince on the cheap since he'd definitely be able to get at least the MLE on the open market, if not more. That would translate into instant savings and maybe we can even get him to give up the $4M he's guaranteed next year.

Carter is owed 21.5 million guaranteed(17.5 and then 4). It probably takes close to 16 million to buy him out. That creates 9.5 million in 2010/11 cap space, but costs 4 million in 2011/12 cap space.

[nate33]

I think Arenas for Curry makes a lot more sense at this juncture. NY is going to need a star like Arenas, and they'll have the cap room to absorb the salary differential. NY could start next season with Arenas, Amare and Lee (assuming they strike out with Lebron, Wade and Bosh).

If we trade for Curry, we save $6M instantly and owe nothing at all next year.

[Hoopalotta]

Just for completeness sake, here's Ric Bucher from draft night on twitter:

Those wondering how Wall/Hinrich/Arenas fit, don't. Arenas will be elsewhere by Oct. Hinrich was great supporting DRose, will be here, too.

on Arenas: there have been all sorts of supposedly unmovable contracts. All of which have been moved. There's no such thing.

And just for clarification: that's opinion on Arenas being moved. I know there are interested teams, that's all. Will say more when able.

http://twitter.com/ricbucher

Flip looked a little guarded when talking about Gilbert and Wall together too. He was talking about how it can work from a technical standpoint, but that dude ain't no poker player.

Interesting to note those Alex Kennedy rumors with Orlando now NOT including Gilbert too:

http://twitter.com/alexkennedynba

Otis Smith is well known for outright lying to reporters and using the media as a disinformation channel (in other words, could be anything).

I don't know. We'll see, I guess.

[WizStorm]

Don't strain yourself too much reading those tea leaves.

[Hoopalotta]

I think Arenas for Curry makes a lot more sense at this juncture. NY is going to need a star like Arenas, and they'll have the cap room to absorb the salary differential. NY could start next season with Arenas, Amare and Lee (assuming they strike out with Lebron, Wade and Bosh).

If we trade for Curry, we save $6M instantly and owe nothing at all next year.

Hmmm, good point.

The Knicks are SOOOOO screwed!



Never mind GIl, but they're going to have to do something loopy alright.



Love it.

[Hoopalotta]

Don't strain yourself too much reading those tea leaves.

I ain't gonna, I'm just saying the winds be blowing some fragrance as of now.

Truth is though, I'm finding the NBA-wide tea leaves quite entertaining right about now.