Is Kobe really an inefficient scorer?

[Jordan23Forever]

Food for thought ...

League average TS% since Jordan entered the league:

2009-10: 0.543
2008-09: 0.544
2007-08: 0.540
2006-07: 0.541
2005-06: 0.536
2004-05: 0.529
2003-04: 0.516
2002-03: 0.519
2001-02: 0.520
2000-01: 0.518
1999-00: 0.523
1998-99: 0.511
1997-98: 0.524
1996-97: 0.536
1995-96: 0.542
1994-95: 0.543
1993-94: 0.528
1992-93: 0.536
1991-92: 0.531
1990-91: 0.534
1989-90: 0.537
1988-89: 0.537
1987-88: 0.538
1986-87: 0.538
1985-86: 0.541
1984-85: 0.543

Which is why we should look at how far above league average a player is rather than just the raw numbers. Funny how I did this and it gets immediately assailed, but when the OP posts just the raw #'s with no context, dudes like Bgil weren't rushing in trying to contextualize or correct it.

Here's what sensible people know:

MJ had a 4.5 ppg/3.3% TS edge on Kobe from age 21-30. This is quite a large and significant difference.

Jordan would average 32+ ppg/58.5-60+% TS today regularly. Therefore, he would have roughly the same edge over Kobe today as he did back then (4.5 ppg/3% TS). The level of Kobe apologism, rationalization, and excuse-making has reached historic proportions.

[JackFinn]

Apple's to oranges. Defense sucked in that era. Lots of wings shot absolutely ridiculous percentages.

1984-85 110.0 on .491
1985-86 110.4 on .487
1986-87 109.9 on .480
1987-88 108.2 on .480
1988-89 109.2 on .477
1989-90 107.0 on .476
1990-91 106.4 on .474
1991-92 105.3 on .472
1992-93 105.3 on .473

Kobe
1999-00 97.5 on .449
2000-01 94.8 on .443
2001-02 95.5 on .445
2002-03 95.1 on .442
2003-04 93.4 on .439
2004-05 97.2 on .447
2005-06 97.0 on .454
2006-07 98.7 on .458
2007-08 99.9 on .457
2008-09 100.0 on .459
2009-10 100.4 on .461

Misleading numbers. FG% includes threes and players shot far less threes from the 80's.

[Kilroy]

To answer the original question...

Yes Kobe can be an inefficient scorer.
He can also be super efficient too... Especially as the game winds down.

[mid-post]

The Kobe-MJ debate reminds me of the global warming debate.

[Ripp]

To answer the original question...

Yes Kobe can be an inefficient scorer.
He can also be super efficient too... Especially as the game winds down.

See, you refer to this clutchness phenomenon. But how does one actually show that it is true? Pretty much all the players/coaches/etc believe that Kobe is the clutchest player in the league, but it is pretty hard to back this up with data. I'm not disputing that he is clutch...just sort of an odd thing I've noticed.

[Kilroy]

To answer the original question...

Yes Kobe can be an inefficient scorer.
He can also be super efficient too... Especially as the game winds down.

See, you refer to this clutchness phenomenon. But how does one actually show that it is true? Pretty much all the players/coaches/etc believe that Kobe is the clutchest player in the league, but it is pretty hard to back this up with data. I'm not disputing that he is clutch...just sort of an odd thing I've noticed.

Yeah, I'm not sure how you would quantify it either other than taking shots attempted in the final minute or so versus shots made and creating a percentage... You'd need 2 things... Volume and accuracy to prove it.

Ultimately, I think I'll wait for the haters to try to DISPROVE it first and then use their data to prove it.

I wasn't really trying to say Kobe is clutch... What I was saying though is that in the same game Kobe can come out and shoot really bad shots, shoot a horrible percentage and then as the game runs down he starts burying shots like he can't miss. It can be both a positive and a negative.

On the current Lakers team Kobe needs to be accurate... He needs to keep his volume of shots down and shoot a high percentage for them to be at their best, because he has guys that can fill the basket around him. So he needs to pass up the contested shots he knows he can make in order to get the team in a good rhythm.

The first 3qts of game 7 he didn't do a very good job of that. He shot us out of the game frankly.

That's the answer of the original question in a nutshell...

[exkonvict]

I think the key is his ability to adjust his game to teammates.

I thought that was one of his major weaknesses. In the Olympics, you had games where some players would be really effective for a game. For example, in one game, every time Wade would get the ball, he'd drive in for an easy lay-up..he was like 7 for 8. Yet, you still saw Kobe taking the most shots, missing and taking contested jumpers. Why would you do that when you have such good teammates doing better than you?

For the Lakers, I thought he tended to take the same type of shots once his team got better, just less of them. He provides attention to make it easier for his teammates to operate, but it works the other way around too. Yet, his shooting percentage seems around the same despite going from terrible to great teammates.

don't even get me started with this. let's try to remember the 2000 & 2004 olympics where kobe didn't play and what happened when wade + lebron took over the game...

with kobe looking determined there was no doubt US wins the gold. he was there to mainly stretch the defense and defend the best player. he basically played to win it all.

[SuigintouEV]

don't even get me started with this. let's try to remember the 2000 & 2004 olympics where kobe didn't play and what happened when wade + lebron took over the game...

with kobe looking determined there was no doubt US wins the gold. he was there to mainly stretch the defense and defend the best player. he basically played to win it all.

Um, the 2000 US were an undefeated gold medalist team...yeah some games were close, but the reality is that we're talking about some teams that barely tried, they were overconfident as ****.

The 2004 squad was just brutal. Brown didn't play the younger players, and iverson/marbury were just cancers TBQH. Plus Duncan couldn't get a call to save his life.

Kobe looking determined had nothing to do with it. Kidd and Kobe in the backcourt was a backcourt commited to defense, on a team that actually really practiced together. The 08 Redeem team was a team that had a genuine commitment to domination, unlike the previous two teams which got stuck in an era of increasing talent pool but steady US overconfidence.

[BubbaTee]

While looking at Kobe's page on basketball-reference.com one thing jumps out at me...

This **** created his own nickname and got it to stick.

Good call. The so called Black Mamba. I think Kobe deserves a cooler nickname tbh...easily one of the weakest nicknames ever. I'm surprised the LA fanbase didn't come up with something better for him

EDIT: Amare has Black Jesus and STAT. Kobe has Black Mamba? He is too good a player to have such a weak nickname.

LA tried. I've heard Kobe Wan Kenobi, El Ocho, Kid Skills, Son of Jellybean, and Bean, among others. Stu Lantz, the Lakers color commentator, used to call him The Dagger.

But the stupid Black Mamba thing was the only one that caught on nationwide. I blame that commercial a few years ago where a guy in the Utah jersey and nuthugger shorts is chasing him around and keeps calling him Mamba. I think it was for a video game or something.

don't even get me started with this. let's try to remember the 2000 & 2004 olympics where kobe didn't play and what happened when wade + lebron took over the game...

Uh, the US beat everybody, won the gold, and Vince Carter had the GOAT in-game dunk?

[Doctor MJ]

Others have clearly made good points about why career efficiency is not a great metric to use.

I just want add, that you don't really need to look that far to see why Kobe gets criticized. Kobe doesn't have terrible efficiency, however, just last year we saw LeBron and Durant put up efficiencies Kobe never touched. So it's pretty obvious that in terms of scoring lots at great efficiency, Kobe's never been that amazing. You can always argue he makes up for it in other ways, but this is an issue that can't simply be dismissed.

[RunMCR]

Kobe eFG is only .488



His TS% only skyrockets because the NBA bails him with free throws. He is the face of the NBA.

dumbest post of the day. Kobe hasn't gotten any superstar calls since lebron's 4th year or so

[RunMCR]

Others have clearly made good points about why career efficiency is not a great metric to use.

I just want add, that you don't really need to look that far to see why Kobe gets criticized. Kobe doesn't have terrible efficiency, however, just last year we saw LeBron and Durant put up efficiencies Kobe never touched. So it's pretty obvious that in terms of scoring lots at great efficiency, Kobe's never been that amazing. You can always argue he makes up for it in other ways, but this is an issue that can't simply be dismissed.

they got ridiculous superstar calls all year long and most of their game is inside (unlike Kobe's), so that's not really a surprise.


good thing they could keep it up in playoffs though!

[Harry_Seaward]

Even the biggest Kobe admirers can admit that arguably Kobe's biggest fault, because honestly he does not have many, is shot selection. Has been and most likely always will be.

He is a SCORER at heart. Such a lethal scorer throughout his career that his "in the gym" range will always lead him to think that everything is a good shot.

The good with this: on some nights he can score 50 like it's a cakewalk (perhaps not so much anymore) and the bad is sometimes he'll put up 30+ shots and miss 20 of em'...that doesn't matter. Everyone knows if you're are a fan of a team with a Kobe or a LeBron or a Wade..there is some bad but a WHOLE lot of good.

[Jordan23Forever]

they got ridiculous superstar calls all year long and most of their game is inside (unlike Kobe's), so that's not really a surprise.


good thing they could keep it up in playoffs though!

Always an excuse for Kobe. Always.

As if Kobe didn't get the same superstar calls from '05-'08 at a minimum. He averaged 10+ FTA in that span just like them, but still couldn't touch their efficiency. Go figure.

I'm sure there'll be another excuse, though; another rationalization.

[Kilroy]

To be fair to Kobe thought, after they got Pau and before he injured his shooting hand, he was getting much more efficient. I think he understood that he could get his anytime he wanted and knew he needed to pick his shots better.

And with the splint there are still nights when everything he throws up seems to go in... Then there are other nights when it just doesn't seem to work as well for him. And I think when it's not going well, he tries to shoot himself back into a flow which hurts his numbers.

It'll be interesting to see what happens after surgery. If everything goes well I think you'll see a much more efficient/deadly Kobe.

[semi-sentient]

Yeah, next year should be interesting after he gets his fingers fixed. I don't think we'll see any kind of increase though because he still has to play more on the perimeter as a result of having Bynum/Pau in the post. Unless he becomes a knock down shooter, he'll stay about the same.

As others have said, it's his shot selection that needs work. He takes one or two a game that no one should take. Ever. Those aren't bail out shots either, they're just bad shots that makes you want to throw the remote through the TV.

[Doctor MJ]

Others have clearly made good points about why career efficiency is not a great metric to use.

I just want add, that you don't really need to look that far to see why Kobe gets criticized. Kobe doesn't have terrible efficiency, however, just last year we saw LeBron and Durant put up efficiencies Kobe never touched. So it's pretty obvious that in terms of scoring lots at great efficiency, Kobe's never been that amazing. You can always argue he makes up for it in other ways, but this is an issue that can't simply be dismissed.

they got ridiculous superstar calls all year long and most of their game is inside (unlike Kobe's), so that's not really a surprise.

good thing they could keep it up in playoffs though!

You make 3 points, all of them misguided.

1- "they got superstar calls". The idea that referees have decided to screw over the star of the Lakers has always been comical. I say this as a Laker fan: There will never ever be a time where a league tries to screw over the franchise that essentially prints money for them.

2- "most of their game is inside". Well yeah, that IS why they get more calls. It's always been smart to drive to the hoop more, and it's always been the criticism of Kobe's game that he's too happy to settle for a low percentage outside shot rather than driving inside.

3- playoffs. I think the playoffs make a good case for Kobe as the best player of the season, but it doesn't change the basic issue. And to make clear: It would be relevant to the general point if there was a clear trend of players getting tons of calls in the regular season, and flopping in the playoffs. That's absolutely NOT the case though. In fact, more often the opposite is alleged (Wade).

[Doctor MJ]

To be fair to Kobe thought, after they got Pau and before he injured his shooting hand, he was getting much more efficient. I think he understood that he could get his anytime he wanted and knew he needed to pick his shots better.

Yup, Kobe at age 28 showed real progress toward becoming as efficient as Durant at 21.

[kingkirk]

no.

[NO-KG-AI]

To be fair to the OP, I think guys like Duncan and Hakeem's efficiency have been overrated for some time. Not bad, but you'd think they both score like Shaq by the way they are talked about.

To be fair again though, their volume and usage go up more in the postseason than Bryant's, and their efficiency doesn't go down like his(overall).