Wiz Acquire Hinrich, Seraphin, $3M for Veermenko's rights

Post #41 » by **WizStorm** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:05 pm

Krizko Zero wrote:I don't see why it means Arenas is gone is guaranteed.

PG-Wall/Hinrich
SG-Arenas/Young/Ross
SF-FA/Thornton/#35
PF-Blatche/#30?
C-#17?/McGee/FA

This team has almost no one under contract, Hinrich should not be starting regardless.

That was my initial reaction as well. I don't view Hinrich as starting 2-guard material and he would be a pretty darn good option as a backup and mentor for both guard spots. With Gil's injury and Wall's lack of experience, a talented and veteran 3rd guard is a must and not just a luxury for this team. If the move spells the end for anybody it would be Nick Young as well as any thoughts of resigning Shawn Livingston.

AceDegenerate · Post #42 » by **AceDegenerate** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:05 pm

I agree that Hinrich for 2 years on this team is a good option at Backup PG/SG. He is definitely overpaid but I'm a firm believer that nobody wants to play here anyway, so cap space is highly over-rated. Better trades are always going to be out there as long as Grunfeld is running the show, but this team as constructed, is not very far from a 6-8 seed in the East.

Post #43 » by **nate33** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:06 pm

rockymac52 wrote:No, it's not about the money, that's what you don't seem to get. Listen to what Ted's been saying. We're not pursuing free agents. Not this year, not next year. Maybe if when next year rolled around we had a lot of cap space and Melo wanted out we could go after him, but that's no sure thing by any stretch. Especially amid reports of him signing an extension, as well as Durant.

What is a much more realistic scenario is stockpiling draft picks (again, listen to Ted) and developing our youth. We don't need the cap space that Hinrich's contract will take up. Plus he's only here for two years, he's a solid player, and a pretty good influence. Feel bad for him losing the job to Rose and then Wall, but he's been a good sport about it.

Those 8 million dollars next year weren't going to make the difference, we weren't going to get Carmelo. I wanted to believe in it and have faith, but deep down inside, I just knew it wasn't going to happen. Free agents are stopgap fixes. Sure, Melo's great, and he'd make us a lot better. But we're better off grooming our own talent. "Rebuilding" doesn't mean taking the free agent game off for one year because no one wants to come here anyway and then going back to throwing money at subpar free agents the next year. Have some patience for christ's sake.

Great trade.

+1

I don't know if it's a "great trade", but I think it's a decent trade that makes sense in the context of a long term plan. It's only a bad trade if Melo is a viable option next summer. If he isn't, than I'm happy with this move.

Saqs · Post #44 » by **Saqs** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:06 pm

I agree with rocky. Not sure what expectations people have/had with the cap space. Grooming young talent is important and Ted has stressed more times than enough that's what he wants and prefers.

I like the move.

fishercob · Post #45 » by **fishercob** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:06 pm

I dont think this says anything about the team's intentions with Gil. We have had ZERO depth at guard the past two seasons. We now have three viable guards under contract. We still need a pure SG too.

Post #46 » by **LyricalRico** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:07 pm

Just seeing this news. I've wanted the Wiz to trade for Hinrich for a while so I obviously love this move. EG comes through again!

:clap:

Dat2U · Post #47 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:10 pm

nate33 wrote:Bottom line: Melo looks like he is not an option.

I'd rather have Hinrich + #17 + $8M in cap room next year than $16M in cap room and no one to spend it on. I think Hinrich is a very good fit character-wise. He will help instill an emphasis on defense and hustle. We've got a lot of young guys to groom. We need one or two guys like Hinrich to set the tone.

We still have $12M in cap room right now so it's not like we won't be able to make opportunistic Trade Deadline deals later this year.

I said it the other day. You don't base a strategy on one potential free agent. You have a plan & stick with it. I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of brick walls. Having the cap space wasn't about eventually signing a free agent, it was about saving the space until the right moment where we could make a lopsided deal & poach quality talent from another team.

But EG blew nearly all of it on one deal. Even worse, its a player without an expiring and it seriously benefits a conference rival. No one can sit up here and honestly tell me the #17 pick in the draft was worth $20 million!

Go over to Bulls board and you'll see a board in collective celebration right now.

Samuels · Post #48 » by **Samuels** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:10 pm

WizKit wrote:I think this is a good pick up. Hinrich can defend, shoot the long ball and run a team. This spells the end for Foye and Livingston. I bet all we had to give up was some cash.

Now that is true...

No way in hell they trade Arenas he is by far the best player we got including Wall and after Teddy went to bat for him and its a damn good thing because he is gonna make them look good...

I think this team with some decent center play is gonna make a serious playoff run and a chance for a .500 season..

queridiculo · Post #49 » by **queridiculo** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:10 pm

Would have preferred the Heat deal, but who knows whether they were ever prepared to deal it within the division.

I like the move, if we didn't have Arenas, Hinrich would be the perfect backcourt mate for Wall.

rockymac52 · Post #50 » by **rockymac52** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:10 pm

To be fair, before the Hinrich deal we were all expecting Gil to start at the 2 anyways, so this doesn't change too much. I know Arenas would play some at PG as well, but not much considering Wall will be in the game at least 35 minutes...

What nate said about 12 million Livingston or 17 million Hinrich + #17 pick is crucial. Don't forget that.

jholmbe1 · Post #51 » by **jholmbe1** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:11 pm

What are you all bitching and whining about? We get a very good third guard off the bench, a huge upgrade over Young, and the 18th pick out of it. I would be thrilled if we could get Larry Sanders with the pick. Who says we can't still acquire Mo-Pete and the 11th pick from the New Orleans? Would be pretty sweet to get Wall, Patterson, Sanders, Pondexter in one draft.

Post #52 » by **LyricalRico** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:12 pm

jholmbe1 wrote:What are you all bitching and whining about? We get a very good third guard off the bench, a huge upgrade over Young, and the 18th pick out of it. I would be thrilled if we could get Larry Sanders with the pick. Who says we can't still acquire Mo-Pete and the 11th pick from the New Orleans? Would be pretty sweet to get Wall, Patterson, Sanders, Pondexter in one draft.

That's the spirit!

Hoopalotta · Post #53 » by **Hoopalotta** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:13 pm

I suppose I'll just go on record as being more middle of the road on this one. I don't like it, but I'm not blowing up either. I definitely agree that Hinrich can't be looked at as $17 million in dead weight and has some value from a professionalism standpoint. If he's on the roster, he'll be a team captain next year. But, he's still overpaid to the point of it being an expensive pickup.

As to Gil, it doesn't absolutely mean that they'd trade him, no, but it certainly excites some speculation, especially if there's something to that J-Chill bit. I don't see why we'd cap ourselves out while espousing the OKC model. That ain't OKC.

I don't know, my take would vary on this a great deal based on what happens next.

I also don't really feel like spending the next several hours kvetching.

rockymac52 · Post #54 » by **rockymac52** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:13 pm

I'd celebrate if I were a Bulls fan too, but that doesn't mean we got the short end of the stick. They think they're about to get LeBron/Bosh! I'd be thrilled! But I'm still happy for the Wizards here.

I Never Lied · Post #55 » by **I Never Lied** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:14 pm

This is a bad move, Hinrich sucks. Folks on the Bulls board are crying tears of joy to see him gone. Absolutely pathetic how you guys are trying to spin this.

Dat2U · Post #56 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:14 pm

nate33 wrote:Tangible value means he's not worthless. It's not $18M for the #17 pick. It's $18M for Hinrich plus the #18 pick. Hinrich is overpaid at $8.5M a year, but he's worth, say, $5M a year. That means we spent $8M on the #17 pick, not $18M.

Maybe a few years ago but Hinrich is washed up. He's been an absolute abomination offensively the last three seasons. He's lived off his rep defensively, but he's not worth anything close to his salary.

fishercob · Post #57 » by **fishercob** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:14 pm

Hollinger:

OKC swallowed $2 million to get the 18th pick. Wash swallowed $17 million to get 17th pick. Quick quiz: Which team is run better?

Ouch. I see nate's point about tangible value, but still. Given how good Chicago is going to be, I'm holding out hope that we're getting their 1st next year too.

JWizmentality · Post #58 » by **JWizmentality** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:15 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Just seeing this news. I've wanted the Wiz to trade for Hinrich for a while so I obviously love this move. EG comes through again!

You're like the guy who screams "F**k you Hitler" at an SS meeting.

Dat2U · Post #59 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:15 pm

fishercob wrote:Hollinger:
OKC swallowed $2 million to get the 18th pick. Wash swallowed $17 million to get 17th pick. Quick quiz: Which team is run better?

Ouch. I see nate's point about tangible value, but still. Given how good Chicago is going to be, I'm holding out hope that we're getting their 1st next year too.

Hollinger said it better than I could of.

That's my new sig.

20MexicanosIn1Van · Post #60 » by **20MexicanosIn1Van** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:16 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:Bottom line: Melo looks like he is not an option.

I'd rather have Hinrich + #17 + $8M in cap room next year than $16M in cap room and no one to spend it on. I think Hinrich is a very good fit character-wise. He will help instill an emphasis on defense and hustle. We've got a lot of young guys to groom. We need one or two guys like Hinrich to set the tone.

We still have $12M in cap room right now so it's not like we won't be able to make opportunistic Trade Deadline deals later this year.

I said it the other day. You don't base a strategy on one potential free agent. You have a plan & stick with it. I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of brick walls
. Having the cap space wasn't about eventually signing a free agent, it was about saving the space until the right moment where we could make a lopsided deal & poach quality talent from another team.

But EG blew nearly all of it on one deal. Even worse, its a player without an expiring and it seriously benefits a conference rival. No one can sit up here and honestly tell me the #17 pick in the draft was worth $20 million!

Go over to Bulls board and you'll see a board in collective celebration right now.

Great point. I feel the best way to become a championship contender is not through free agency, it is through the draft and lopsided trades that occur for financial reasons (see Gasol, Pau). These type of trades happen much more frequently than a team hitting a home run through free agency. It's only happened once that I can recall and that was with Shaq to the Lakers.