Joe Johnson trade with Dallas

[vandyman22]

A Maverick fan here....

There have been reports that Dallas is among 5 teams in top contention for Joe if he were to leave. Obviously you guys don't want to lose Joe anymore than we want to lose Dirk, but if Joe ends up leaving here is what Dallas could offer....What do you think?

Dampier-- you can flip his nonguaranteed contract for a player worth $10-16 million. He's one of this summers biggest assets.Teams like Minny, Golden State, New Orleans and numerous others would be interested. Dallas just rejected a Deng for Dampier deal from Chicago. (he's that valuable)

Butler-- he's expiring and he's still a talent that can produce 17 ppg and solid D

Haywood-- a top defensive center in the league

3 future 1st round picks (2011, 2013, 2015)

Dominique Jones -- he was our No. 25 pick in the draft, an up and coming SG

Barea - a serviceable back up PG that comes dirt cheap ($1.8 million expiring)

Jason Terry -- His last year is similar to Dampiers contract and he's still a top 6th man (though you already have the best in Crawford)

Random expirings/fillers -- Stevenson, Carroll

The only person the Mavericks aren't willing to give up for Joe is Roddy B. If it comes down to where Joe decides to leave, would you be interested in any of these players/contracts?

[raleigh]

The only person the Mavericks aren't willing to give up for Joe is Roddy B. If it comes down to where Joe decides to leave, would you be interested in any of these players/contracts?

I'm so sick of Mavs' fans acting like we can't read quotes from Cuban himself or simply go over to dallasbasketball.com and read how Roddy B. is available in certain scenarios. The truth is that Mavs' fans don't want to see Roddy traded, but that doesn't mean he isn't available.

That said, Butler/Damp -for- JJ/Evans

[HoopsGuru25]

None of those players really have any value to the Hawks outside of Haywood...and that's unlikely to happen as he is an unrestricted FA as well.

I'd probably wait to see if Miami would offer Beasley+Tor pick for Joe after they sign their max PF.

[HoopsGuru25]

I'd also be worried about Caron Butler. His performance slipped noticeably on both ends last year...but his per game numbers are just good enough for the ASG to spin him as a "replacement for Joe" to the casual fan. Josh Childress probably projects as a better player going forward.

[vandyman22]

The only person the Mavericks aren't willing to give up for Joe is Roddy B. If it comes down to where Joe decides to leave, would you be interested in any of these players/contracts?

I'm so sick of Mavs' fans acting like we can't read quotes from Cuban himself or simply go over to dallasbasketball.com and read how Roddy B. is available in certain scenarios. The truth is that Mavs' fans don't want to see Roddy traded, but that doesn't mean he isn't available.

That said, Butler/Damp -for- JJ/Evans

I'd do that deal.

I wasn't aware that Hawk fans knew about db.com... but it's been quoted by Cuban that Roddy's virtually "untouchable" unless Lebron/Wade/CP3 are headed to Dallas (which they aren't). Also, just 2-3 days ago Donnie Nelson said he was offered lottery picks (6-11) for Beaubois and that the organizations stance hasn't changed and he's not going anywhere. So really isn't available... not for Joe Johnson anyway (probably because he's about to turn 29). Those certain scenarios your talking about are dream scenarios where the Mavs receive #1 options in their prime. It's not going to happen.

[vandyman22]

I'd also be worried about Caron Butler. His performance slipped noticeably on both ends last year...but his per game numbers are just good enough for the ASG to spin him as a "replacement for Joe" to the casual fan. Josh Childress probably projects as a better player going forward.

Caron is a year older than Joe, but he's still a good 2nd or 3rd option. He also vowed to lose 15 lbs this summer for his contract year, so I'd expect him to do just as good if not better than last year.

Also, don't underestimate Dampier. As I said, Dallas rejected a Luol Deng to Dallas for Dampier deal just before the draft. You could flip him and receive a player of Deng's caliber (probably better).

[evildallas]

Dampier has added value in that his deal isn't fully guaranteed. He can be used to fulfill the contract match of the trade without us carrying that full salary into the year. That's handy if our true goal is someone like Beaubois.

[raleigh]

Cuban's statement about Roddy B. was clearly hyperbole. He's a promising young guard who was obviously being regarded as a decent throw-in by other teams. Cuban did the right thing by publicly stating his value to the Mavs was higher than that.

I personally do not think Beaubois is someone the Hawks will look to acquire unless they just want to accumulate assets. They have two young guards already.

[vandyman22]

Cuban's statement about Roddy B. was clearly hyperbole. He's a promising young guard who was obviously being regarded as a decent throw-in by other teams. Cuban did the right thing by publicly stating his value to the Mavs was higher than that.

I personally do not think Beaubois is someone the Hawks will look to acquire unless they just want to accumulate assets. They have two young guards already.

I think turning down top 10 lottery picks is also a good indication as to where the Mavs stand on letting go of Roddy

[vandyman22]

Dampier has added value in that his deal isn't fully guaranteed. He can be used to fulfill the contract match of the trade without us carrying that full salary into the year. That's handy if our true goal is someone like Beaubois.

He's completely nonguaranteed..... if he were traded for Joe $16 million would be wiped off the payroll. He's not owed one cent. And again.... Beaubois might be available for very select players, but Joe's turning 29 yrs old and everything I hear from DB.com is that the Mavs wouldn't include him in the deal. Talent wise... Butler, Haywood, multiple 1st rounders, and our No. 25 pick (dominique jones) is all the Mavs will offer.

Also I'm fairly certain that Dampier's contract can be traded more than once. That is.... you could trade Joe for Dampier, and as long as you didn't waive him he could traded again. I'm not sure about that, but I think that's the case.

[raleigh]

I think turning down top 10 lottery picks is also a good indication as to where the Mavs stand on letting go of Roddy

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=3172

It says they intend to use him to try to land LeBron. That's what it says.

[vandyman22]

I think turning down top 10 lottery picks is also a good indication as to where the Mavs stand on letting go of Roddy

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=3172

It says they intend to use him to try to land LeBron. That's what it says.

As a Maverick fan, I read Db.com almost every day. There have been numerous articles written about Roddy, and I'm just telling you that from what I hear the Mavericks aren't willing to give up Roddy unless they get a #1 option coming back (someone that could play Batman to Dirk's Robin). Cuban has also said on more than one occasion that he expects Roddy to be an all-star next season if he works hard. That's how highly he's valued by the Mavs. He's not going anywhere in a Joe Johnson deal unless Cuban considers him a Batman to Dirk's Robin.

Also, I'd assume the Hawks would rather take 3 future first rounders instead of Roddy, as you already have two young promising guards.

[raleigh]

Also, I'd assume the Hawks would rather take 3 future first rounders instead of Roddy, as you already have two young promising guards.

I think so, too.

Have you followed Calathes at all? He'd be an intriguing "throw-in."

[theatlfan]

Comments:
1) Why would Cuban send out $3 mil for Dominique Jones if he's not willing to trade Beaubois? Simple: he's perfectly willing.
2) As far as what offers DAL has declined, who cares? It's been Cuban's plan to get into FA all along and his 2 biggest chips are Beaubois and Dampier, so why would he pawn those off to get players he's not as enamored with? Just because Cuban declined an offer of Beaubois for a mid-lotto pick or one for Dampier for Deng doesn't mean that's their worth. It just means that the return wasn't worth it to Cuban to break his plan of entering the FA with these 2 chips.
(BTW, I doubt that CHI would trade Deng now that they've unloaded Hinrich.)
3) I don't think that Dampier can be flipped. After you trade for someone, you can't immediately trade him again - you've got to wait for some length of time. I think it's 60 days and I don't know when Dampier's option has to be triggered, but if it has to be triggered sometime with the 60 day window after 7/8 then it'd have to be a 3-way deal.

As for the SNT for JJ conversation, I'd imagine that what we want would be:
1) Salary Relief: we'd be pretty close to the tax threshold with a JJ SNT. Considering we'd still need to work out something for Chills (SNT with WASH has been rumored) and utilizing the MLE, getting a little breathing room under the tax would be nice.
2) Players: Apparently, our GM thinks we're young enough already and wants vets on the team. I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment, but it is what it is. Our current GM values shooters and scorers. I dunno if that's something he thinks we lack or if it's just a general preference. Either way, it amounts to the same thing here.
3) Prospects: Yes, we'd want to get some prospects out of any deal where we're trading the best player.
4) A C: prospect or player, it doesn't matter, but we need some size.

Some things scratched off the list:
* Haywood: We'd be interested, but I doubt that DAL would include him since he would be the only C that they would have any rights to.
* Bibby: we wouldn't mind shipping him (as much **** as he gets around here, he's still a 40% 3 PT shooter), but I doubt that he'd fit defensively with DAL's current G rotation.

For a JJ SNT to work, I'd imagine we'd be asking for Dampier, Beaubois, and other (lesser) assets. We might try a SNT with Dampier to a team that's against the tax threshold, but we would prefer to take back less $$ than Dampier's contract (aka, toward the bottom end of the 25% lee-way spectrum). I'd imagine DAL will counter with something akin to what we see here. Honestly, I could see us settle for just Dampier and Beaubois (esp. if we find the 3rd team to flip Dampier to), but I couldn't see us settle for a boatload of mediocre players and late 1st round draft picks.

[zzmav]

From a Dallas perspective I can tell you it is extremely unlikely that either Roddy or DUST will be used in a S&T for Johnson and there is absolutely no chance both would be included.

[raleigh]

From a Dallas perspective I can tell you it is extremely unlikely that either Roddy or DUST will be used in a S&T for Johnson and there is absolutely no chance both would be included.

No, you can't tell us that at all. You aren't Mark Cuban or Donnie Nelson.

To be honest, if there's no Dampier involved, the Mavericks aren't landing anyone beyond the MLE this year. These dreams of two SNT's are ludicrous.

[evildallas]

Realistically it would be possible to do a deal without including Beaubois although most fans would want him (myself included). The way to do that is for Dallas to take on Mike Bibby's contract at the same time to shed more salary. Haywood would be a desired piece, but given that he'd require a S&T back I think it is unlikely.

Johnson
Bibby
for
Butler
Terry
and Possibly a pick

Butler is expiring which keeps our long term commitment light. Terry is only partially guaranteed after this season (5M buyout next summer). They are both vets which allow the team to remain competitive. Terry should be better defensively than Bibby at this stage.

The alternative without Bibby would be:
Johnson
for
Butler
Stevenson
Barea (if needed for cap math)
and possibly a pick

All 3 deals are expiring. Barea may or may not be included to make the math work. The trades are a little stronger for us with Dallas than what we could get from a team with cap space because Dallas needs us if they want it to happen.

If Beaubois is included it shows that Dallas really wanted Joe and we had an eye on the future. Without him the deals are a way of publicly saving face while avoiding long term spending commitments.

[HMFFL]

From a Dallas perspective I can tell you it is extremely unlikely that either Roddy or DUST will be used in a S&T for Johnson and there is absolutely no chance both would be included.

I do agree with you about Rodrigue Beaubois, but Mark Cuban would most likely trade Eric Dampier for Joe Johnson, so I believe you're overvaluing Eric like many Dallas fans if you believe Dallas can acquire one of the elite free agents. His contract status is appealing, but management is expecting Lebron James, and it's carried over to the fans.

Value has already been bypassed because Donnie & Mark actually believe they can acquire Lebron James. The two of them probably had offers for Dampier that involved taking back salary and possibly a lottery pick. The two of them made mistakes last off-season by signing Marcin Gortat so quickly, which caused them to lose Brandon Bass, and Marcin Gortat. On top of them they traded for Shawn Marion and locked him into a long-term contract.

I also believe the Mavericks could have the following if they had traded Eric Dampier.

• Houston has the right to swap 2011 first round picks (top-1 protected) with New York, at their discretion.
• Houston receives New York's 2012 first round pick (top-5 protected)

Back to Rodrigue Beaubois. Dallas turned down a lottery pick last week for him and I believe it was from Indiana. The only players I believe Mark Cuban would trade him for is Lebron James or Dwayne Wade. Rodrigue will be wearing a Mavericks summer league jersey in Vegas working on his point guard skills and shouldn't even worry about being traded for Lebron James.

[zzmav]

I do agree with you about Rodrigue Beaubois, but Mark Cuban would most likely trade Eric Dampier for Joe Johnson, so I believe you're overvaluing Eric like many Dallas fans if you believe Dallas can acquire one of the elite free agents. His contract status is appealing, but management is expecting Lebron James, and it's carried over to the fans.

Dampier is Dallas' most versatile and valuable trade chip going into the off-season. The only way Cuban sacrifices that chip is if he is certain his top targets Lebron/Wade etc. have decided to sign elsewhere. At that point I agree Dampier for Johnson trade discussions could and probably would come into play.

[Harry10]

Dampier is Dallas' most versatile and valuable trade chip going into the off-season. The only way Cuban sacrifices that chip is if he is certain his top targets Lebron/Wade etc. have decided to sign elsewhere. At that point I agree Dampier for Johnson trade discussions could and probably would come into play.

it is good that Dallas fans think that way, because nobody in the NBA values Dampier

Haywood and Beaubois are the only two tradeable assets the Mavs have.

Marion and Kidd and Butler are old

Terry is a chucker who is just a product of the system

Dampier is another overpaid 7 footer

Dampier is defiantly not worth the cap the Hawks would give up if they took him. John Salmons, Wesley Matthews, and Haywood are alot better than Dampier, so it would just be dumb to take Eric and not sign better talent in Salmons, Matthews, and Haywood.

might as well just let the Mavs be stuck with Dampier and watch Dirk leave and join Lebron and D'Antoni in New York.