Has anyone seen this? (Yi Jianlian Potential Trade)

[nyqua11]

Why would other teams help Mia, N.J, Chi, or even N.Y get LBJ. That's like helping yourself lose.

One of those teams is going to get him anyway. So why not add assets now FOR NOTHING to help rebuild.

[Staruk]

Washington is the league's cum dumpster!

[moocow007]

The reason the Nets did this is because Yi Jianlian is a terrible, terrible, awful, basketball player.

This.

Someone said that Yi is the Chinese Channing Frye? Yep...now take out Frye's ability to hit from outside and that's what Yi is.

[nyqua11]

Hinrich isn't horrible, he is a gritty defender who can play both guard spots. He had a down year last year and is overpaid, but he doesn't have a "horrible" Curry-like contract. What should Grunfield do, just sit on the cap space and not try to improve his team?

Hinrich has 9 mil this yr vs Currys 11 plus Hinrich has a additional year, considering there is a extra yr its just as bad[quote]

Yeah but Hinrich actually plays and contributes. Curry is just considered a contract and has played like 2 games the past few years. The fact Hinrich plays makes him much more valuable than Curry, even though he has the extra year.

[moocow007]

Or his best to improve his team...

This board has to stop acting like there's some giant conspiracy by every team against the Knicks.

While I agree about the conspiracy (there is none) Grunfield is doing a horribly bad job in creating opportunities for rival eastern conference teams while picking up marginal players. Seriously is having Hinrich and Yi worth giving two teams the opportunity to create a juggernaut team that could be unbeatable for them the next 10 years worth it?
If you are Washington you try to keep the opposition as weak as possible. Thanks to the Wizards two more eastern conference teams have the opportunity to put together a terrific team, even without James. Does anyone in his right mind think that if New Jersey adds Johnson and say Boozer,Stoudamire or Lee the wizards are gonna be able to challenge them the next 5-7 years?

It can't be in the Wizards best interest to make sure that Stoudamire,Boozer,Gay and possibly Nowitzki all end up in the eastern conference along with Wade,Bosh,James and Johnson.
I know this is reaching very far and speculating some but if after this summer there are 5 juggernaut teams in the east that are gonna pound the Wizards night in and night out Wizard fans will know who to blame.

I think he is worrying more about his team than what other teams MAY or may not do. If he can get those players for virtually nothing, why not? Maybe the Bulls will get LeBron, maybe not. Maybe the same with the Nets.

Then he's done a terrible job worrying about his team. What he should be doing is pursuing every option possible in moving Arenas to Orlando for anything (even Rashard Lewis). THAT is what he needed the most to do...to get Arenas the heck out of there and away from Wall while adding someone that doesn't make more (and right now NO ONE IN THE NBA makes more than Arenas) and who can actually contribute. He didn't need to get a "good guy" to "tutor" Wall (as was supposedly the justification for Hinrich)...honestly does anyone really actually and honestly believe that Wall believes he needs anyone to "mentor" him? And Yi? Wow that's a terrible trade. Yi stinks (he does) and he's a puss (he is). Why would you want a guy who shrivels at the first sign of pressure on your team? To show the other players that they too can go into a shell at the first sign of trouble?

Deals like this has happened before. In NY. Starting roughly 5 years ago. Get the best talent, regardless of need, fit, salary or bargaining power. Honestly, looks like Ernie is trying to challenge Kublai Kahn for worst GM in the NBA right now.

[nyknicks2k2]

goes to show you how walsh overpaid to get rid of JJ

yep, that trade is looking horrendous by the minute

No.

You can't co-sign a trade, jump on anyone that disagreed then all of a sudden jump off the bandwagon. It makes you look like a big douche.

[Huey Freeman]

If indeed the Knicks do get shut out (because there is a chance of it happening), do they become the '09-'10 Nets finishing with less than 20 wins next season? Walsh said he won't overpay or trade for ridiculous contracts so where would that leave us?

[nyqua11]

Then he's done a terrible job worrying about his team. What he should be doing is pursuing every option possible in moving Arenas to Orlando for anything (even Rashard Lewis). THAT is what he needed the most to do...to get Arenas the heck out of there and away from Wall while adding someone that doesn't make more (and right now NO ONE IN THE NBA makes more than Arenas) and who can actually contribute. He didn't need to get a "good guy" to "tutor" Wall (as was supposedly the justification for Hinrich)...honestly does anyone really actually and honestly believe that Wall believes he needs anyone to "mentor" him? And Yi? Wow that's a terrible trade. Yi stinks (he does) and he's a puss (he is). Why would you want a guy who shrivels at the first sign of pressure on your team? To show the other players that they too can go into a shell at the first sign of trouble?

Deals like this has happened before. In NY. Starting roughly 5 years ago. Get the best talent, regardless of need, fit, salary or bargaining power. Honestly, looks like Ernie is trying to challenge Kublai Kahn for worst GM in the NBA right now.

I assume he is trying to move Arenas, then he can plug Hinrich into the SG spot or have him backup both positions. And he can trade Hinrich in the future for future picks to a contending team this year or next year. And Wall is 19/20 years old. Lots of young players aren't ready for the NBA and Hinrich can help him cope and deal with the NBA life. And they also got Seraphin in the Hinrich deal, so that factors into the trade. Yi is an expiring contract that will be a backup for his team, so it's not like they're taking on a giant contract.

[Jmonty580]

If indeed the Knicks do get shut out (because there is a chance of it happening), do they become the '09-'10 Nets finishing with less than 20 wins next season? Walsh said he won't overpay or trade for ridiculous contracts so where would that leave us?

Would we even get our draft pick if we ended up in the lottery? We could potentially be in a worse situation. The nets as bad as they were were also hampered by injuries. We would just be that bad, with no relief in sight.

[moocow007]

Hinrich isn't horrible, he is a gritty defender who can play both guard spots. He had a down year last year and is overpaid, but he doesn't have a "horrible" Curry-like contract. What should Grunfield do, just sit on the cap space and not try to improve his team?

Hinrich has 9 mil this yr vs Currys 11 plus Hinrich has a additional year, considering there is a extra yr its just as bad

Yeah but Hinrich actually plays and contributes. Curry is just considered a contract and has played like 2 games the past few years. The fact Hinrich plays makes him much more valuable than Curry, even though he has the extra year.

Doesn't really matter if you don't need that guy that "actually plays and contributes". You need to go no further in understanding that then just looking back at pretty much nearly all of Isiah Thomas' trades. In every trade he got the best talent, the guys that "actually plays and contributes" the best. Didn't matter if the Knicks didn't really need them or have use for them nor that they didn't fit financially...but boy were they better than the guys we gave up (whoopy!!).

[kane2021]

The team that will strike out will be the nets. I can see mid level 2nd tier FA's using them as bargaining against the teams that hold there rights as the dust settles. There is more cap space out there than top players this off season.

The thing is this. The Knicks and heat are looking to rebuild there teams. The Bulls are hoping for the big fish or will plug in around what they have.

The nets are rebuilding the franchise. New coach, new owner, GM stepped down, trying to move. This is a 3-5 year process. Worst off is they have lifted the house off the foundation and have to place to stick they shovel.

That team has never gotten any support. That building is always empty. I just dont see how a top FA would want to spend 3/5th's to the entire duration of there contract waiting for the nets to land on there feet. Its bad business.

[moocow007]

Then he's done a terrible job worrying about his team. What he should be doing is pursuing every option possible in moving Arenas to Orlando for anything (even Rashard Lewis). THAT is what he needed the most to do...to get Arenas the heck out of there and away from Wall while adding someone that doesn't make more (and right now NO ONE IN THE NBA makes more than Arenas) and who can actually contribute. He didn't need to get a "good guy" to "tutor" Wall (as was supposedly the justification for Hinrich)...honestly does anyone really actually and honestly believe that Wall believes he needs anyone to "mentor" him? And Yi? Wow that's a terrible trade. Yi stinks (he does) and he's a puss (he is). Why would you want a guy who shrivels at the first sign of pressure on your team? To show the other players that they too can go into a shell at the first sign of trouble?

Deals like this has happened before. In NY. Starting roughly 5 years ago. Get the best talent, regardless of need, fit, salary or bargaining power. Honestly, looks like Ernie is trying to challenge Kublai Kahn for worst GM in the NBA right now.

I assume he is trying to move Arenas, then he can plug Hinrich into the SG spot or have him backup both positions. And he can trade Hinrich in the future for future picks to a contending team this year or next year. And Wall is 19/20 years old. Lots of young players aren't ready for the NBA and Hinrich can help him cope and deal with the NBA life. And they also got Seraphin in the Hinrich deal, so that factors into the trade. Yi is an expiring contract that will be a backup for his team, so it's not like they're taking on a giant contract.

Hinrich isn't a SG...why do people keep trying to poney him up as one. He failed in the "hey let's keep Hinrich and move Gordon cause Hinrich can be a SG" experiment. But that's besides the point, the Bulls (and now the Nets) were NOT in the drivers seat on these deals. Each team pretty much HAD TO shed these guys. And instead of doing what he's supposed to be doing (milking it for all it's worth) he basically gave each team a favor. As mentioned before, the Rockets set the market. Grunfeld didn't bother using it. He could have asked for a future 1st rounder from the Bulls and the Nets and you think either team would have said "there's no precedence for that?". He got flubbed.

[cgmw]

Two years ago, the Suns traded two future unprotected first round picks to get rid of Kurt Thomas and his contract. Last year the Nuggets gave up their 2010 first round pick to get rid of Chris Hunter's $4 mil deal. Both the Suns and Nuggets wanted to avoid the tax or reduce their tax payments. Now you have the greatest free agency bonanza ever and a GM (Ernie Grunfeld) simply accepted to bail other teams out for little compensation. Grunfeld is acting like a cheap whore ready to give a discount to buy her dose of crack. It's as simple as that. Instant cap space is a tremendous asset and should get you more than Hinrich or Yi !

I'm going to do the unthinkable and disagree with you a bit here, Kos.

The Suns and Nuggets were forced by ownership into making those deals to avoid a financial penalty at a set deadline. Here, the Bulls and Nets had no such mandate. Yes, they were under pressure to clear more cap, but neither team would be willing to mortgage its future on the mere chance that LeBron would come.

To me, that's a big difference from ownership forcing the GM into cutting payroll. Hinrich and a mid-1st isn't a great deal, but it's not that bad. Having a 23 year old Yi spreading the floor at SF while opening up the Chinese fanbase seems well worth $4 mil.

Maybe you disagree and think he got raked over the coals. Fine. But the idea that Grunfeld has it out for the Knicks just seems ridiculous.

[nyqua11]

Doesn't really matter if you don't need that guy that "actually plays and contributes". You need to go no further in understanding that then just looking back at pretty much nearly all of Isiah Thomas' trades. In every trade he got the best talent, the guys that "actually plays and contributes" the best. Didn't matter if the Knicks didn't really need them or have use for them nor that they didn't fit financially...but boy were they better than the guys we gave up (whoopy!!).

Well Hinrich's deal is for 2 more years only, and they got him AND Seraphin for nothing. This team isn't going to contend for 2+ years anyway, so why not add Hinrich if it means getting a young prospect. And he should be able to move Hinrich in a deal either this year or next year when he is an EXPIRING contract (Jeez isn't that really valuable? Or is it only valuable if it's Curry's expiring?)

[nyqua11]

Hinrich isn't a SG...why do people keep trying to poney him up as one. He failed in the "hey let's keep Hinrich and move Gordon cause Hinrich can be a SG" experiment. But that's besides the point, the Bulls (and now the Nets) were NOT in the drivers seat on these deals. Each team pretty much HAD TO shed these guys. And instead of doing what he's supposed to be doing (milking it for all it's worth) he basically gave each team a favor. As mentioned before, the Rockets set the market. Grunfeld didn't bother using it. He could have asked for a future 1st rounder from the Bulls and the Nets and you think either team would have said "there's no precedence for that?". He got flubbed.

Then keep Hinrich as a backup to both positions because he can fill in at both for 20-30 minutes a game.

And it just sounds like you're mad Walsh overpaid to get the second max slot months ago. u mad? If Walsh wasn't dead set on getting two max slots months ago he could have tried to swing a deal now for less, as the market has shown with these other deals. And Houston said they were fine with keeping McGrady and letting his deal expire.

Also Jeffries got much fewer minutes and more DNPs when he went to the Rockets because he's a bad player with a bad contract. Hinrich is a decent player who is overpaid.

[kosmovitelli]

I'm going to do the unthinkable and disagree with you a bit here, Kos.

How dare you ? LOL

The Suns and Nuggets were forced by ownership into making those deals to avoid a financial penalty at a set deadline.

They made these trades during the summer and the deadline for the luxury tax was june 30. They had more time to make a trade to lower payroll. I don't blame the Nuggets because their pick was lottery protected but the Suns gave up two unprotected first round picks. There are different ways to trim payroll. For example, at the time, there was a rumor about Shawn Marion being shopped to lower team's salaries. Instead of trading Marion for Shaq, the Suns could have traded Marion ($17 mil) for a $10 million player (in a multiplayer trade). They didn't have to give up two unprotected first round picks.

Maybe you disagree and think he got raked over the coals. Fine. But the idea that Grunfeld has it out for the Knicks just seems ridiculous.

It's fishy and suspicious because Grunfeld traded away Caron Butler, Haywood and Jamison to reduce payroll and clear cap room and all he can show for it is Hinrich, Yi and Seraphin. Butler, Haywoff and Jamison are three good players. I understand for Jamison but Haywood was an expiring contract and Butler is under contract until 2011 (just like Hinrich). Frankly I'd rather have Butler and Haywood than Hinrich and Yi and it's not even close !

[Huey Freeman]

It's fishy and suspicious because Grunfeld traded away Caron Butler, Haywood and Jamison to reduce payroll and clear cap room and all he can show for it is Hinrich, Yi and Seraphin. Butler, Haywoff and Jamison are three good players. I understand for Jamison but Haywood was an expiring contract and Butler is under contract until 2011 (just like Hinrich). Frankly I'd rather have Butler and Haywood than Hinrich and Yi and it's not even close !

I think the ownership and winning the #1 prize that is being deemed "a can't miss" stud changed their direction pre-deadline trade plan; teams are allowed to change plan if they get a few things to fall their way for the betterment of their future.

[moocow007]

Doesn't really matter if you don't need that guy that "actually plays and contributes". You need to go no further in understanding that then just looking back at pretty much nearly all of Isiah Thomas' trades. In every trade he got the best talent, the guys that "actually plays and contributes" the best. Didn't matter if the Knicks didn't really need them or have use for them nor that they didn't fit financially...but boy were they better than the guys we gave up (whoopy!!).

Well Hinrich's deal is for 2 more years only, and they got him AND Seraphin for nothing. This team isn't going to contend for 2+ years anyway, so why not add Hinrich if it means getting a young prospect. And he should be able to move Hinrich in a deal either this year or next year when he is an EXPIRING contract (Jeez isn't that really valuable? Or is it only valuable if it's Curry's expiring?)

What exactly has Seraphin done? And Jeffries contract was SMALLER and only had 2 more years on it AND the Rockets got Jordan Hill, a 2012 1st rounder AND the right to swap 1st round picks AND had the Knicks pickup a larger total salary for this year than what they gave up. And the Wizards depth is in their frontcourt so what exactly is Seraphin a dire need for?

If the team isn't going to contend for 2+ years anway, what on earth would you need to pay a backup veteran PG $8 million a year for?!?!?!!??! Not sure why this is so hard to understand in terms of being an awful move by the Wizards?

And Jeez pure capspace (i.e. what they gave up IS more valuable than a guy with 2 years left on his big contract that they have no use for). Why is this also so hard to understand?!?!?! Holy smokes and goodness grief.

But wow...they got Seraphin!!! Whoopie-doo.

[cgmw]

^

Whoa, Moo. Take it easy. Say what you will, but Hinrich is a solid veteran who is capable of playing both guard positions because he is a top-notch defender. To me the greatest benefit of the trade for Washington (besides the 17 pick) is creating the public perception that John Wall is NOT being mentored by Gilbert Arenas. I think the Wizards are terrified of having the Glibert effect spread to their new messiah and needed a guy like Hinrich to come in and relieve the pressure.

It also lends credence to the idea that Grunfeld is actively shopping Arenas, which is something else the local fan base really wants to see. I live in DC and that's the way I see it.

The last thing I'll say is that Kirk Hinrich got that $8 million contract because he's good enough be the starting point guard on most NBA teams, including the Knicks. Having him as back up for John Wall is a great situation for the Wiz and has nothing to do with Grunfeld trying to screw over the Knicks or build dynasties in Chicago or New Jersey.

[nyqua11]

What exactly has Seraphin done? And Jeffries contract was SMALLER and only had 2 more years on it AND the Rockets got Jordan Hill, a 2012 1st rounder AND the right to swap 1st round picks AND had the Knicks pickup a larger total salary for this year than what they gave up. And the Wizards depth is in their frontcourt so what exactly is Seraphin a dire need for?

If the team isn't going to contend for 2+ years anway, what on earth would you need to pay a backup veteran PG $8 million a year for?!?!?!!??! Not sure why this is so hard to understand in terms of being an awful move by the Wizards?

And Jeez pure capspace (i.e. what they gave up IS more valuable than a guy with 2 years left on his big contract that they have no use for). Why is this also so hard to understand?!?!?! Holy smokes and goodness grief.

But wow...they got Seraphin!!! Whoopie-doo.

Be young and athletic, thus showing potential? I mean, he's a prospect. What did any player show before coming to the NBA? And Jeffries is a really bad player with a bad contract. And the Knicks WANTED T-Mac, so don't act like it was a burden to take him. Seraphin isn't a dire need, he's a young athletic big who may have a Ibaka-like effect for their team this year or next. Stop acting like Seraphin is a horrible prospect because he is a rookie and not on the Knicks. If the Knicks had him I'm sure you would be ecstatic.

Because Hinrich is....um...pretty good? He is overpaid, but he can play both guard positions and shoot really well. Why not pick him up with unused cap space if you can? Plus the fact he can help mentor Wall is a plus.

What would they do with that cap space? What FA would want to sign with them? Why throw away MORE cap space on a FA and for more years when you're not ready to contend?

And to compare the trades, Jeffries is horrible with a horrible contract. So the Knicks had to throw in some picks to move him and the Rockets capitalized on the Knicks being desperate to move him.

Hinrich is overpaid, but has shown he can start at PG for most teams and play SG while contributing on both ends of the court.

It just sounds like you're mad Walsh traded Jeffries at the wrong time, and you're trying to blame Grunnie for some reason.