2010 FA Thread

[nate33]

Do you think the Wizards will really hit the luxury tax though or close to it? I think the most frustrating thing is that we will probably sit out this year's free agency even though we have the money to make a splash. We could easily afford a $12 mil per year player.

You can't just add salary up to the luxtax. We can only add free agents up to the cap limit. That's about $10M more in salary than what we have now.

We should probably try and execute one more BOYD deal where we buy a pick and take on an expiring contract less than $5M. But I'd like to keep at least $5M in cap space in reserve so we can make a move at the Trade Deadline when the deals might be better. It was ridiculous how bad Houston raped NY in the Jeffries trade.

[willbcocks]

We could also sign our own players to ridiculous contracts. Come to agreements with Blatche, Young, Oberto etc to cut them, then sign them to max contracts.

And, no, this is NOT just an academic exercise....

[nate33]

We could also sign our own players to ridiculous contracts. Come to agreements with Blatche, Young, Oberto etc to cut them, then sign them to max contracts.

And, no, this is NOT just an academic exercise....

That's actually another argument to dump Arenas. With Arenas off the books, we can renegotiate Blatche's contract while maintaining Max cap space next summer.

We've discussed this before and it makes a lot of sense. Let's say that Blatche agrees to a 3-year extension at $10M a year. Rather than just doing that, we instead rip up his existing contract (which pays him $7M over the next two years) and sign him to a 5-year contract worth $37M. We frontload the contract with declining salary each year. The idea is to significantly reduce our long term salary obligations. Pay him up front now while we have little else to do with the money so we can have cap room to play with in 2012 and 2013 when we might need to acquire that final free agent to complete the roster.

[willbcocks]

We could also sign our own players to ridiculous contracts. Come to agreements with Blatche, Young, Oberto etc to cut them, then sign them to max contracts.

And, no, this is NOT just an academic exercise....

That's actually another argument to dump Arenas. With Arenas off the books, we can renegotiate Blatche's contract while maintaining Max cap space next summer.

We've discussed this before and it makes a lot of sense. Let's say that Blatche agrees to a 3-year extension at $10M a year. Rather than just doing that, we instead rip up his existing contract (which pays him $7M over the next two years) and sign him to a 5-year contract worth $37M. We frontload the contract with declining salary each year. The idea is to significantly reduce our long term salary obligations. Pay him up front now while we have little else to do with the money so we can have cap room to play with in 2012 and 2013 when we might need to acquire that final free agent to complete the roster.

Yeah, but couldn't he go Boozer on us? I'd rather see him earn it first, then pay him under the new CBA, which conveniently will come up when we need to resign him.

[verbal8]

We could also sign our own players to ridiculous contracts. Come to agreements with Blatche, Young, Oberto etc to cut them, then sign them to max contracts.

And, no, this is NOT just an academic exercise....

That's actually another argument to dump Arenas. With Arenas off the books, we can renegotiate Blatche's contract while maintaining Max cap space next summer.

We've discussed this before and it makes a lot of sense. Let's say that Blatche agrees to a 3-year extension at $10M a year. Rather than just doing that, we instead rip up his existing contract (which pays him $7M over the next two years) and sign him to a 5-year contract worth $37M. We frontload the contract with declining salary each year. The idea is to significantly reduce our long term salary obligations. Pay him up front now while we have little else to do with the money so we can have cap room to play with in 2012 and 2013 when we might need to acquire that final free agent to complete the roster.

Wouldn't the Wizards still have Max cap space if they trade Hinrich for an expiring?

[nate33]

We could also sign our own players to ridiculous contracts. Come to agreements with Blatche, Young, Oberto etc to cut them, then sign them to max contracts.

And, no, this is NOT just an academic exercise....

That's actually another argument to dump Arenas. With Arenas off the books, we can renegotiate Blatche's contract while maintaining Max cap space next summer.

We've discussed this before and it makes a lot of sense. Let's say that Blatche agrees to a 3-year extension at $10M a year. Rather than just doing that, we instead rip up his existing contract (which pays him $7M over the next two years) and sign him to a 5-year contract worth $37M. We frontload the contract with declining salary each year. The idea is to significantly reduce our long term salary obligations. Pay him up front now while we have little else to do with the money so we can have cap room to play with in 2012 and 2013 when we might need to acquire that final free agent to complete the roster.

Wouldn't the Wizards still have Max cap space if they trade Hinrich for an expiring?

The Wizards barely have max cap space next year if Hinrich is dumped. If Blatche is renegotiated, we will not have cap space. If Arenas is cut, we can keep Hinrich, renegotiate Blatche, and still have max cap space.

[nate33]

We could also sign our own players to ridiculous contracts. Come to agreements with Blatche, Young, Oberto etc to cut them, then sign them to max contracts.

And, no, this is NOT just an academic exercise....

That's actually another argument to dump Arenas. With Arenas off the books, we can renegotiate Blatche's contract while maintaining Max cap space next summer.

We've discussed this before and it makes a lot of sense. Let's say that Blatche agrees to a 3-year extension at $10M a year. Rather than just doing that, we instead rip up his existing contract (which pays him $7M over the next two years) and sign him to a 5-year contract worth $37M. We frontload the contract with declining salary each year. The idea is to significantly reduce our long term salary obligations. Pay him up front now while we have little else to do with the money so we can have cap room to play with in 2012 and 2013 when we might need to acquire that final free agent to complete the roster.

Yeah, but couldn't he go Boozer on us? I'd rather see him earn it first, then pay him under the new CBA, which conveniently will come up when we need to resign him.

That was a different situation. Cleveland relinquished the rights to his 3rd year in order to sign him to a longer deal, but there was no prearranged agreement. What I'm talking about is an agreement to work out an extension. As part of the agreement, Blatche would renegotiate a front loaded deal.

[Rafael122]

Nate - care to add Yi's salary in there now?

[fishercob]

Nate - care to add Yi's salary in there now?

Let's see it confirmed by an actual source first. None of the NBA insiders have tweeted about it.

[dopeismarcus]

I want Rodney Carney.

[fishercob]

I want Rodney Carney.

Have you told him how you feel?

[Ed Wood]

I want Rodney Carney.

Have you told him how you feel?

A confession can be a very scary thing. Here, I'll let you practice a few times by role playing. Okay...

(Deep Breath)

Okay, I'm about 6'7", 26 years old, went to Memphis and I'm a totally forgettable professional basketball player. You're up tiger.

[dopeismarcus]

I want Rodney Carney.

Have you told him how you feel?

Maybe I should give him a tweet.

[Severn Hoos]

I have to say, I don't particularly get the anger & frustration around here. Or at least the surprise that people are showing. Ted pretty much announced the plan with the Hinrich trade. He wasn't going to be a player in FA this summer or next. And this aligns with his philosophy of building slowly through the draft and internal development, then adding the pieces (typically via FA or splashy trade) when you're on the cusp of contending.

This team won't be a contender in the next two years no matter what they did. So the key for this year & next is to accumulate assets and increase the value of the assets that they already have. This is why the first deal was for Hinrich. Agree or disagree, but (I'm assuming) the FO saw Hinrich as a key to Rose's development, and want him to be a part of Wall's development in a similar manner. And if they're right - if Hinrich can help make Wall an All-Star within 2 years, then he's much more valuable to the organization than whatever mid-range FA or facilitated trade that might have been made. (Again, I'm going on the assumption that Ted didn't expect to be a player in FA next summer either.)

So if the plan comes together, they have a star PG in Wall whose learning curve has been accelerated by having Hinrich as a mentor. They'll also have Seraphin as potentially part of a two-headed monster at C w/ McGee. And they'll have just as much cap space in 2012 since Kirk will be off the books. If Ted's target for his coming-out party in FA is Summer 2012, then it's essentially cap-neutral and he picked up an additional asset in Seraphin. And who knows - maybe they even re-sign Kirk at a significant discount to finish out his career with Wall?

I fully understand the opportunity cost angle, and I break it down into two elements:

* Helping other teams - who knows, maybe the Bulls make the deal with someone else? Chances are, they won't let anything stand in the way of getting that cap space they think they need. So if they'd have gotten there anyway, why not be the ones to benefit from their situation?

* Forsaking other deals - this one's a little tougher. But again - if Ted gave the direction that there would be no big FA signings until 2012 or later, then we didn't really give up anything there. The one factor is the possibility of facilitating a lopsided trade somewhere along the line between now & then. Ironically, such a deal would probably still be criticized by some of the same posters as "helping someone else get cap space" anyway, but I can see how it will/would be nice to have that option. Even keeping $5M or so in cap space would be a nice card to have in the back pocket in case an incredibly sweet deal came along.

Bottom line is, they added some assets without affecting cap space further down the line when I think Ted will be ready to spend it. And I think those who are saying these are all Ernie's moves are not seeing the big picture. Ernie wouldn't do anything right now without Ted's sign-off. Ted's been an owner for over a decade now, so he's not exactly wet behind the ears.

[fishercob]

Sev, my frustration with this Yi deal is that it's decidedly inconsistent with stated goals and "following OKC's path" (Ted's words, paraphrased). Yi is not an asset and we don't appear to be getting one in the trade. So why burn the cap room? It's precisely because of the stated goals that I'm so annoyed.

[Severn Hoos]

I posted this in another thread but it probably makes more sense here:

Code: Select all

Player           10/11  11/12  12/13  13/14
Arenas,Gilbert   17.73  19.27  20.81  22.35
Hinrich,Kirk      9.00   8.00    -      - 
Wall,John         5.14   5.53   5.92   7.46
Blatche,Andray    3.26   3.52    -      - 
Thornton,Al       2.81    -      -      - 
Young,Nick        2.69    -      -      - 
McGee,JaVale      1.60   2.46    -      - 
Seraphin,Kevin    1.56   1.68   1.80   2.76
Booker,Trevor     1.20   1.29   1.39   2.35
Ross,Quinton      1.15    -      -      - 
N'Diaye, Hamady   0.47   0.79   0.90    - 
Free Agent         -      -      -      - 
Free Agent         -      -      -      - 
Free Agent         -      -      -      - 
Free Agent         -      -      -      - 
2011 pick (#17)    -     1.74   1.87   2.00

Total Salary     46.62  44.28  32.67  36.91
Salary Cap       56.10  57.78  59.52  61.30
Luxury Tax       68.44  70.50  72.61  74.79
Money Available  21.82  26.21  39.94  37.87

So building off my previous post, I'm assuming that Ted doesn't plan to dive into FA until 2012. Depending upon what other deals happen between now & then, they'll have:

Wall, Arenas, Seraphin, Booker, Hamady, 2011 pick(s), 2012 pick(s), and a decision to be made on Blatche & McGee.

Looking at nate's spreadsheet and plugging in the cap holds for Blatche ($7M?) & McGee ($6M?) could leave us somewhere in the neighborhood of $14M in cap space? (Obviously, this applies only if Young & Thornton are not retained and no other deals are signed longer than 2012.)

But - having 2012 as the target date gives them an additional 18 months to try and trade Arenas. Even if he's traded for expirings at the Feb. 2012 deadline, we'd be looking at enough space for two Max FAs of our own that summer, not that there will necessarily be anyone worth signing to such a huge deal at that point.

My guess is this: Either we see Arenas traded this summer, or they want to see him for a year or more to see if he can co-exist with Wall. If they do come together to form a dynamic backcourt, then plow ahead and put the additional pieces around them to move toward contending. If it doesn't work, then try to work for a deal that moves Arenas for a 2012 expiring contract (or to a team with raw cap space, if the Knicks haven't burned it all by then). Who knows, maybe some kind of Baron Davis deal that sends Gil back to Cali, I don't know. Maybe to GS at this year's deadline for Gadzuric and Radmanovic?

Point is, there's options and there's time. I'd hate to see them send him out now without ever seeing if he could play alongside Wall and watch him be close to his former self somewhere else.

[LyricalRico]

Sev, my frustration with this Yi deal is that it's decidedly inconsistent with stated goals and "following OKC's path" (Ted's words, paraphrased). Yi is not an asset and we don't appear to be getting one in the trade. So why burn the cap room? It's precisely because of the stated goals that I'm so annoyed.

I would agree with you if the team already had 14 rotation caliber players on the roster and Yi was just going to rack up DNPs all season as the 15th man. But this team still has just a shell of a roster and needed to fill out the depth chart somehow. So whether they add $2M+ in a trade for Yi or they add some low level free agent backup PF for $2M+ on a one year contract, the effect on the cap is exactly the same.

My point is they were going to have to spend this money anyway because they needed to fill out the mandatory number of roster spots and whoever they got wasn't going to be all that great of a player, so I don't get why this is such a "loss of flexibility" and such a "contradiction" by Ted/Ernie. It just sounds like sour grapes from people who had unrealistic expectations for this offseason.

[fishercob]

There's a huge difference between Yi's $4M salary and a minimum salary as it relates to our cap flexibility. Bottom line is that the Wiz got an asset for taking on Hinrich, but somehow managed to forget that aspect of the deal of taking on Yi. You have no idea what my expectations for the offseason were, so terming my reaction as sour grapes is um...weird.

[mhd]

Best case scenerio:
Lebron-Cleveland
Bosh-LAL (Sign and Trade)
Amare-Knicks
Boozer-Miami
Johnson-Bulls

[go'stags]

My take is that EG and Flip want to take a look at Yi. Maybe they saw something on tape or in person that makes them think they could get something more out of him. A Net's fan posted how they used him as either strictly a jump-shooter or only as a post up player. I don't know if that is exactly what They saw, but I'm sure it was something along those lines.

Maybe his poor defensive rotations were a product of adjusting to a new language? Or being with a coach who didn't really have any success after Kidd was traded? It's hard for someone who is at best role player to shine on a young, 12 win team.

Remember, a lot of stats also said that Caron wouldn't be worth what he was (contract wise). Now, Yi wasn't as good as Caron before the trade, but no one is expecting him to be an all-star, much less a starter. Flip has a friendly offense for jump-shooting big men. we'll see.

Bottom line (for me) is that if your going to keep EG on as GM, which he is (like it or not), then you have to give him the opportunity to take chances like this. He does have a decent eye for talent IMO, and unlike the Critt deal, it doesn't cost us any future pick. Strictly a flier. though I hope he won't be playing cards with Gil on team flights.

I realize it's not cap space for Posey and the 11th pick, but amazing deals like that probably were not very realistic. I see this as a very low risk, with a decent reward if it works out. For Quinton Ross, we might as well. Especially when he is expiring. This deal shows that a young, cheap, expiring 7 footer won;t be hard to move, even more so when a lot of teams no longer have delusions of grandeur abou signing LeBron or Wade.

I don't think EG or Flip have the same view of YI as people in this thread (shocking, I know). I'm sure they saw something that makes them think he can be a decent player. And for Quinton Ross, I'm fine with that.

Or maybe they did this for Closq, as they had not yet added a soft, jump-shooting foreign big man.