Suns sign Hakim Warrick - Y!

[binkar]

ok here's the real question in my opinion. Which team besides the suns gets within 2 games of the championship round and goes into rebuild or treading water mode. But Frye and Warrick are marginal players, i wont call them scrubs, but they shouldnt be starters on any team hoping to make the playoffs. I dont get the optimism of this board, you all are obviously seeing something i cant see, i see a team on the serious decline with no real assets other than Lopez.

I cant wait to be reading all the giddy anctipation of the 10-11 free agency class around January.

But what makes you think Sarver will spend for top tier talent next year when he didnt this year in order to keep a team together that succeeded and was loved by the fans. Not to mention why any of them would be interested in coming.

Saver doesnt care about winning , he wants to look like he does through over paying for marginal talent in order to say he is willing to spend. amare at 20 mil year even for 6 years was a better deal than this two at 10 for 3-4.

I don't think there is a single person (at least I hope not) that actually think we improve as a team with the loss of Amare. That said, you simply can't pay a guy a max contract if you not only don't measure him as max value as a player, but also don't have the confidence that he will remain healthy throughout the course of the contract. That, along with the change of the CBA, could potentially lead to the team being locked in a state of mediocrity for the next 6 years. You have to look at the value of the contract throughout the whole length of the contract, not just the first couple years.

I would also disagree that Lopez is the only asset we have. We have a solid group of young role players that I would definitely consider positive assets. You have to have a solid group of role players to team with a star (see Lakers/Kobe before Pau). Unfortunately, we have zero start power remaining, and you can't win championships in this league without star power.

To get that star power takes either an awful lot of luck (Lakers and Pau, Spurs and Duncan, etc.), or hitting rock bottom (Cavs with Lebron, Magic with Howard, Celtics in order to have the young talent to trade for Allen and Garnett).

We will continue to be a fringe playoff team out of contention until Nash leaves, then we will have a good few years of basement basketball, which will hopefully allow us to draft a future super star, and then leading to possible contenders. That pretty much the only way smaller market teams can become champions. I am sure many disagree. Just my own opinion.

[collidingNeurons]

personally i'd be happier if they'd trade anyone over say 27 on the team than i am with the current team, go into full tank mode, because as you so aptly put it this team is mediocre now and there's nothing worse in the nba than middle of the pack. its better to be atrocious than borderline playoff caliber.

[sunskerr]

personally i'd be happier if they'd trade anyone over say 27 on the team than i am with the current team, go into full tank mode, because as you so aptly put it this team is mediocre now and there's nothing worse in the nba than middle of the pack. its better to be atrocious than borderline playoff caliber.

I agree... I'd rather suck for a year to have a high lottery pick than watching this team suffer through a season struggling to make the playoffs.

[grumpysaddle]

personally i'd be happier if they'd trade anyone over say 27 on the team than i am with the current team, go into full tank mode, because as you so aptly put it this team is mediocre now and there's nothing worse in the nba than middle of the pack. its better to be atrocious than borderline playoff caliber.

This is a ridiculous statement. It's better to give up completely than to try and rebuild without sucking? Who says that teams HAVE to rebuild by winning 18 games in a season. Everyone here has noooooooo idea what the Suns will do the rest of the offseason, let alone what they can possibly do next season and after. Did anyone (I did, maybe a few others) think that the Suns would make the WCF last season? People were saying the fricking Clippers would be better than the Suns, AND I'm pretty sure I recall a ton of people even saying the Warriors would have a better season. Basically, just quit it with all the doom and gloom. It gets old and all of you just keep repeating the same boring diatribes over and over and over and over. How many times can you post the same post saying the same exact thing in different words? Are you going to admit you were wrong if the Suns are fighting for one of the top spots in the playoffs next season, probably not.

[grumpysaddle]

also... Just because you have a high lottery pick doesn't mean you're GUARANTEED a star. Adam Morrisson was the third pick in his draft and Kwame Brown was picked first and look at how well those two are doing... Just saying, drafting players is not the only way for a team to rebuild.

[lilfishi22]

This is a ridiculous statement. It's better to give up completely than to try and rebuild without sucking? Who says that teams HAVE to rebuild by winning 18 games in a season. Everyone here has noooooooo idea what the Suns will do the rest of the offseason, let alone what they can possibly do next season and after. Did anyone (I did, maybe a few others) think that the Suns would make the WCF last season? People were saying the fricking Clippers would be better than the Suns, AND I'm pretty sure I recall a ton of people even saying the Warriors would have a better season. Basically, just quit it with all the doom and gloom. It gets old and all of you just keep repeating the same boring diatribes over and over and over and over. How many times can you post the same post saying the same exact thing in different words? Are you going to admit you were wrong if the Suns are fighting for one of the top spots in the playoffs next season, probably not.

Looking at the kind of cap space we have, what we can net with LB's and JRich's contract, there's really nothing all that much we can do that would put us back in contention. Outside of signing a vet (Center) on the min, there's not much we can do with the limited cap space we have (or don't have, I'm not sure what our cap is looking like atm).

I'd be happier to see us go into full rebuilding mode and try to get us a franchise player in the lottery than keeping dragging on this team that's not good enough to be a real contender but not sucky enough to get a possible franchise guy in the draft. I'm not saying it's a D.Rose or J.Wall or bust, but someone with legit star potential would make me more excited about this team.

I think what collidingNeurons is alluding to is not that being in the middle of the pack is the worst thing, it's being in the middle of the pack without any real plan in place to move up. In that respect, I'd rather rebuild and work out way back up than try to make little changes here and there and hope for the something good to come out from nothing. With JRich coming off the books next season and Nash and LB (assuming he doesn't get traded by then) both coming off the season after, we'll have plenty of cap space then, but that's next season. If we do something major this off-season (or next) in a good way then great, but for now, this team is really only competitive because a 37year old Nash is making the system work for everyone else.

I've been wrong before and I've admitted I was wrong but I'm not afraid to tell it like it is now even if I'm wrong in the future.

[Fo-Real]

personally i'd be happier if they'd trade anyone over say 27 on the team than i am with the current team, go into full tank mode, because as you so aptly put it this team is mediocre now and there's nothing worse in the nba than middle of the pack. its better to be atrocious than borderline playoff caliber.

This is a ridiculous statement. It's better to give up completely than to try and rebuild without sucking? Who says that teams HAVE to rebuild by winning 18 games in a season. Everyone here has noooooooo idea what the Suns will do the rest of the offseason, let alone what they can possibly do next season and after. Did anyone (I did, maybe a few others) think that the Suns would make the WCF last season? People were saying the fricking Clippers would be better than the Suns, AND I'm pretty sure I recall a ton of people even saying the Warriors would have a better season. Basically, just quit it with all the doom and gloom. It gets old and all of you just keep repeating the same boring diatribes over and over and over and over. How many times can you post the same post saying the same exact thing in different words? Are you going to admit you were wrong if the Suns are fighting for one of the top spots in the playoffs next season, probably not.

+100000 Grump, These people are depressing. To actually think and say we shoud follow team models like the clippers or Warriors, lose to be in the lotto, and it will help our team, it worked so well for all of them so far. the crying doom and gloom gets old.... WE HEARD YOU!!!! WERE GONNA SUCK!!!!! GET OFF IT..... JESUS!!!! Like one of you said to me DONT TELL ME HOW TO FEEL!!! I still feel good about the team, and we are not going to suck. We have too many other good things going for this team, and a lot of young what ifs in the mix to soften the blow of losing amare. HOPE!!! POSITIVE THOUGHT!!! What a concept!!

[grumpysaddle]

not to mention if the Suns are able to move LB for and fclear that space up, then richardson comes off the books, Suns are in good position just ONE season from now to sign a max player and not have that max player surrounded by inexperienced rookies/scrubs. It just seems like people WANT to see the Suns suck. I think they're trying to legitimize to themselves the fact that they've been saying the Suns will suck for the past few seasons and keep getting proven wrong.

Steve Nash still has two seasons with the Suns, that is two seasons to develop Dragic even more. If he can improve even 70% of what he did from his first to second year over the next two seasons... he's going to be able to step in when Nash heads out. Remember... Nash wasn't some all-star his first few years in the league. I think Dragic getting his early education in the NBA from Nash is nothing but positive (especially learning how to take care of his body/stay in shape). I think big name players will want to play with Dragic much like almost every player in the league would love to play with Nash now. Just thought i'd throw in some positivity for the doomsdayers.

[JohnVancouver]

It's Lawal, not Gawal. Unless that's some kind of nickname for him I haven't heard. Just pointing it out cause I've noticed you type Gawal in a bunch of posts.

Right - just a brain fart - I';ve been messing his name up for two years now. One of those things that once you get it wrong, you can't ever get it right

Last year I was calling Hedo

"Turdo Heekaloo"


so it could beworse

[grumpysaddle]

Turdooooooooooooooo.

[JohnVancouver]

ok here's the real question in my opinion. Which team besides the suns gets within 2 games of the championship round and goes into rebuild or treading water mode. But Frye and Warrick are marginal players, i wont call them scrubs, but they shouldnt be starters on any team hoping to make the playoffs. I dont get the optimism of this board, you all are obviously seeing something i cant see, i see a team on the serious decline with no real assets other than Lopez.

I cant wait to be reading all the giddy anctipation of the 10-11 free agency class around January.

But what makes you think Sarver will spend for top tier talent next year when he didnt this year in order to keep a team together that succeeded and was loved by the fans. Not to mention why any of them would be interested in coming.

Saver doesnt care about winning , he wants to look like he does through over paying for marginal talent in order to say he is willing to spend. amare at 20 mil year even for 6 years was a better deal than this two at 10 for 3-4.

I don't think there is a single person (at least I hope not) that actually think we improve as a team with the loss of Amare. That said, you simply can't pay a guy a max contract if you not only don't measure him as max value as a player, but also don't have the confidence that he will remain healthy throughout the course of the contract.

--- Bingo. Amar'e is a nice guy and a fantastic, charismatic athlete, very exciting to watch when he's rolling. But when all's said and done, he's not quite a 20/10 player and he doesn't carry the team when it counts. Not to denigrate his talent, just that measured against the elite of the league, he falls a bit short.
I compare him to guy sin my youth like Hawkins and Haywood, or maybe McAdoo - amazing players but neither one was considered on the level of Kareem or Moses. Or Bird or Magic ....
I can't see how we could justify that kind of $$$ for him, and as Stat is reported to have said, if we did he believed Sarver would have to "gut the team" to pay it.

Would you rather have James Worthy or Amar'e?

Excuse the historical bent of this post - just that's my best shot at trying to explain how I view Stat.
I hope he does well in NY, but he better be prepared to get roasted by the press.

I also agree with you wholeheartedly that, against all the odds, we have nice core of young talent.

[collidingNeurons]

personally i'd be happier if they'd trade anyone over say 27 on the team than i am with the current team, go into full tank mode, because as you so aptly put it this team is mediocre now and there's nothing worse in the nba than middle of the pack. its better to be atrocious than borderline playoff caliber.

This is a ridiculous statement. It's better to give up completely than to try and rebuild without sucking? Who says that teams HAVE to rebuild by winning 18 games in a season. Everyone here has noooooooo idea what the Suns will do the rest of the offseason, let alone what they can possibly do next season and after. Did anyone (I did, maybe a few others) think that the Suns would make the WCF last season? People were saying the fricking Clippers would be better than the Suns, AND I'm pretty sure I recall a ton of people even saying the Warriors would have a better season. Basically, just quit it with all the doom and gloom. It gets old and all of you just keep repeating the same boring diatribes over and over and over and over. How many times can you post the same post saying the same exact thing in different words? Are you going to admit you were wrong if the Suns are fighting for one of the top spots in the playoffs next season, probably not.

what i am saying is , i'd like to see a direction and not a smoke screen of appearing to be willing to do what it takes to get over the top or even have hope of that. Yes I agree that last year was a surprise and i was shocked and wrong in what in i thought they were capable of, but to say i dont want to see them succeed is ridiculous. i've been a fan of this team since the 76 suns and even remember Connie Hawkins in a suns uniform.

But it makes no sense to me to spend what they are for marginal players when they had a real a talent that made others better just by being on the floor even with his limitations. This team exceeded all expectations last year, and had the support of the fans. Most teams wanting to do what it takes to win a ring would have built on that success and not taken a step back due to finances.

So yes instead of treading water for a couple years while nash can make mediocre players look good, i'd like ot see a direction in which we can build on the future. Teams that do what they must to stay borderline playoff teams tend to stay there over and over. See Suns of the late 70s.. always good enough to tease but never a serious title contended

And what happens when Dudley, Dragic and Lopez are due extensions and some other team is willing to pay more for them than Sarver is.

And yes i am pessimistic at the moment but a lot of that has to do with how optimistic i felt at the end of the season.

If i am wrong i will gladly admit and be happy about it

[grumpysaddle]

Fair enough on all of that, but the Suns were never going to be able to sign Amar'e and keep the entire team from last season together to build upon. Sarver pissed Amar'e off too much to hope he would ride out his contract. Signing him to the contract he wants just isn't a smart decision, and neither is gutting a team that shows so much promise. Keep it together and in a year or so, you make a play for one big name player to hopefully put the rest of the team over the top. The building blocks are already in place, just needs the finishing touches, IMO.

If Dragic improves as much as he did between season 1 and 2 this upcoming year, I'd say the Suns should probably start working on extending his contract before the option to leave even comes up. Same with Duds and Lopez. Don't let their contracts run out in the first place.