VOTE: Keep Jefferson or Trade for Lee?

[Krapinsky]

I would absolutely love it. He is younger, a better defender, and he would do well being in a structured offense like this. I am a huge Josh Smith fan.

Just not sure how or why they would trade with us.

+1

That could make a lot of sense for both teams. If it were a possibility I think we would have heard something about it by now though.

[revprodeji]

Atlanta is typically difficult to deal with due to the ownership situation. I also think they were probably waiting to finish the Joe Johnson thing before doing anything else.

[southern wolf]

I don't mind David Lee as a player. But not on this team, and certainly not for Al Jefferson. I mean of all our needs going into the off-season basically the only position I felt confident about was PF. Now it seems that's where our biggest question mark lies. It's unbelievable.

[Ace_Rockola]

This is my first post altho I have been reading for quite some time now.

Things that I have to say.

Al has been pretty good for us but it has been mentioned before, he doesnt make plays to help us win games, he gets his points, his rebounds, but rarely when its "clutch time" He can sometimes have block hands and unable to catch the ball under the basket and that isnt going to go well when we can get a guy who can make assists *cough*. I know hes coming off injury, and I loved the 1 handed pump fake and then stepping around the defender and throwing it down. I dont know what I would want for him tho is the major problem. Something obtainable that is and not thinking like a knicks fan.

With Loves rebounding skills and put back abilities, that are ONLY going to get better why would we move him without giving him a real shot on the "team"
Seems to me Love gets alot more put backs when the team NEEDS them to compete in a game.
Ive always liked Brewer since we drafted him, he is arguably our best on ball defender hes long, quick and plays with alot of energy that he has gotten better at harnessing and also become a bigger scoring threat. That seems like just the type of guy that would fit in very well with some Ricky Rubio 1 handed no look ball flingin' AND hes young.
David Lee... of course I think hes a good player, but we have a developing version of him who is already on our team who is also alot cheaper.


Im stealing this quote from someone else but our front court defense would not be so Love-Lee.

[shangrila]

I'm very confused how you claim he doesn't box out yet he is the second best defensive rebounder in the game, after Dwight Howard.

Being great at boxing out actually makes your rebounding numbers DECREASE a bit! As illogical as that might sound.

There's several reasons for that, the main one being preventing the offensive big to get a good position, even after the ball is rebounded of the rim, thus making it easier for your team-mates to get that rebound.

What Lee does, though, is getting in a position where HE has the best chance at getting a rebound, but NOT his team as a whole. The chances of him getting it increase, however, the chances of his team as a whole getting that rebound decrease.

I see what you're saying, but I have to disagree with some of it.

Firstly, boxing out doesn't make your rebound numbers go down. Unless you do something crazy, like box out the point guard that's running back on defence, then you have as good of a chance of getting the rebound as anyone else. Especially considering that most rebounds are caught near the basket and that's where a person boxing out would be. The only way I could see it decreasing rebounding would be if you're talking about guards as I doubt Rondo or Kidd ever really box out.

Don't know if you said this or not, but Love clearly boxes out. Go and watch some of the Darko game highlights from the end of the year and every time they show him grabbing a rebound, you can clearly see Love has boxed out as soon as the shot is up. It's good, fundamental basketball that a coachable guy like Love would have learnt when he was 10.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I would absolutely love it. He is younger, a better defender, and he would do well being in a structured offense like this. I am a huge Josh Smith fan.

Just not sure how or why they would trade with us.

+1

That could make a lot of sense for both teams. If it were a possibility I think we would have heard something about it by now though.

hopefully we haven't heard every offer, if Jefferson is on the table to the highest bidder, Kahn should've spoken to at least half the teams in the NBA by now

Atlanta is typically difficult to deal with due to the ownership situation. I also think they were probably waiting to finish the Joe Johnson thing before doing anything else.

its pretty much done now though isnt it? JJ for 119 back to the Hawks

[SportsGuy8]

I'm very confused how you claim he doesn't box out yet he is the second best defensive rebounder in the game, after Dwight Howard.

Being great at boxing out actually makes your rebounding numbers DECREASE a bit! As illogical as that might sound.

There's several reasons for that, the main one being preventing the offensive big to get a good position, even after the ball is rebounded of the rim, thus making it easier for your team-mates to get that rebound.

What Lee does, though, is getting in a position where HE has the best chance at getting a rebound, but NOT his team as a whole. The chances of him getting it increase, however, the chances of his team as a whole getting that rebound decrease.

I see what you're saying, but I have to disagree with some of it.

Firstly, boxing out doesn't make your rebound numbers go down. Unless you do something crazy, like box out the point guard that's running back on defence, then you have as good of a chance of getting the rebound as anyone else. Especially considering that most rebounds are caught near the basket and that's where a person boxing out would be. The only way I could see it decreasing rebounding would be if you're talking about guards as I doubt Rondo or Kidd ever really box out.

Don't know if you said this or not, but Love clearly boxes out. Go and watch some of the Darko game highlights from the end of the year and every time they show him grabbing a rebound, you can clearly see Love has boxed out as soon as the shot is up. It's good, fundamental basketball that a coachable guy like Love would have learnt when he was 10.

Yeah that's true. However, what I wrote about the numbers going down was under the assumption that the team is well organized, meaning there are other players (even guards) prepared to get to that open space a decent percentage of the time.

A good player shouldn't care about his own numbers, but only about the fact that his team as a whole gets the rebound (doesn't matter if that's him or someone else). And if you look at the better players at boxing out, they often box out in a way that also creates space for example for one of his athletic wings to grab that rebound easily.

As much as I always joked about him, but Rasho Nesterovic for example always did that very well. He didn't care about his numbers, but he always boxed out superbly, denying the opposing team to get a good position, while allowing his teammates to keep grabbing easy rebounds. That was the main reason why the Spurs paid so much for him a while ago. It's a very underrated skill that's crucial as a whole.

Edit: As for Love, yeah, I pointed out that I didn't watch enough games to really know how good he is at boxing out, so I was only talking about Lee. A few games can lie, big time.

[Devilzsidewalk]

however they do it, Love and Lee get the rebounds instead of their man and they create extra shots at the rim by crashing the offensive glass. Its asking too much for Lee to block off the paint so Al Harrington and Gallinari can dash in from their campsite at he 3 point line to grab rebounds

[SportsGuy8]

You forgot the most important thing which I mentioned in my previous posts. By not boxing out properly they (at least Lee) let opposing players to get in great positions for offensive rebounds which is absolutely deadly because that also leads to very easy points. That's the main problem in this whole thing!

Lee getting 2 more rebounds per game doesn't do much good if he achieved that by letting the opposing TEAM get 3 more rebounds per game because all he cared about was grabbing those 2 more rebounds ...
And it doesn't even have to be 3, even 1 could be worse because as I said, when opponents get that ball, they're in perfect positioning right under the basket to get easy points, because Lee let them be there by not boxing out properly.
See my point?

What I wrote in previous post was just about the numbers of players that box out properly. It's not really that important in this debate.

[SportsGuy8]

One more thing:

Its asking too much for Lee to block off the paint so Al Harrington and Gallinari can dash in from their campsite at he 3 point line to grab rebounds

That doesn't really make that much sense because boxing out is crucial for defensive rebounding, it doesn't really play that big of a part in offensive rebounding because players will rarely be in positions to do it. Offensive rebounding is a totally different thing.
I'm talking strictly about defensive rebounding.

Btw., sweet avatar! I really hope Darko finally plays up to his talent, that would be sweet. I always had great hopes for him but he kept disappointing with his lack of effort. I still think a good scenery can make wonders for him! Hopefully this is it ...