Yao Ming vs Dwight Howard (When healthy)

[WorthyBlitz42]

I think Yao Ming is the better player when healthy.....

[ubernathan]

Yao, better in the post and has anchored some elite defenses.

[kookie_819]

Irrelevant topic, Yao will likely never be healthy again.

But if he was healthy, I would have Dwight just slightly above him.

[NO-KG-AI]

I would pick Yao if Dwight played Yao 82 times per year.

[kookie_819]

I would pick Yao if Dwight played Yao 82 times per year.

+1

A healthy Yao is the best Dwight defender in the NBA

[WorthyBlitz42]

Irrelevant topic, Yao will likely never be healthy again.

But if he was healthy, I would have Dwight just slightly above him.

Sorry, but you mis-spelled Yao with Dwight.

[PimpORL]

If Yao were to ever play 82 games, his numbers would go down. Dwight can average 25 ppg for half a season, too. You have to factor in fatigue to his season averages and the fact that he has ball-dominant players around him. During Yao's good statistical stretches, he obviously had to carry the load without McGrady. Yea, Dwight luckily doesn't get injured, but that doesn't mean playing a full 82 game season isn't murder on your body.

[WorthyBlitz42]

If Yao were to ever play 82 games, his numbers would go down. Dwight can average 25 ppg in half a season, too. You have to factor in fatigue to his season averages and the fact that he has ball-dominant players around him. During Yao's good statistical stretches, he obviously had to carry the load without McGrady. Yea, Dwight luckily doesn't get injured, but that doesn't mean playing a full 82 game season isn't murder on your body.

Yeah and If Yao were playing panzy East centers like Dwight is, he could probably average 50 ppg, so yeah um shut up.

[WorthyBlitz42]

I would pick Yao if Dwight played Yao 82 times per year.

What about a normal NBA schedule and Yao is healthy.

[PimpORL]

If Yao were to ever play 82 games, his numbers would go down. Dwight can average 25 ppg in half a season, too. You have to factor in fatigue to his season averages and the fact that he has ball-dominant players around him. During Yao's good statistical stretches, he obviously had to carry the load without McGrady. Yea, Dwight luckily doesn't get injured, but that doesn't mean playing a full 82 game season isn't murder on your body.

Yeah and If Yao were playing panzy East centers like Dwight is, he could probably average 50 ppg, so yeah um shut up.

uh yea that was a good argument
Yao has to play against the god that is Andrew Bynum.

[WorthyBlitz42]

If Yao were to ever play 82 games, his numbers would go down. Dwight can average 25 ppg in half a season, too. You have to factor in fatigue to his season averages and the fact that he has ball-dominant players around him. During Yao's good statistical stretches, he obviously had to carry the load without McGrady. Yea, Dwight luckily doesn't get injured, but that doesn't mean playing a full 82 game season isn't murder on your body.

Yeah and If Yao were playing panzy East centers like Dwight is, he could probably average 50 ppg, so yeah um shut up.

uh yea that was a good argument
Yao has to play against the god that is Andrew Bynum.

Yeah that's a lot better than um, what Big Z? Samuel Dalembert? Theo Ratliff? There's a reason why your boy does nothing against guys like Sheed, Perkins, Maxiell, even freaking Gasol.

[PimpORL]

Yeah that's a lot better than um, what Big Z? Samuel Dalembert? Theo Ratliff? There's a reason why your boy does nothing against guys like Sheed, Perkins, Maxiell, even freaking Gasol.

Actually, no, Bynum is not a lot better. lol The only player Dwight had real problems with this season was Perkins, and he eventually got around that. Try harder.

[WorthyBlitz42]

Yeah that's a lot better than um, what Big Z? Samuel Dalembert? Theo Ratliff? There's a reason why your boy does nothing against guys like Sheed, Perkins, Maxiell, even freaking Gasol.

Actually, no, Bynum is not a lot better. lol The only player Dwight had real problems with this season was Perkins, and he eventually got around that. Try harder.

He got around? By what, getting a bunch of tip-ins and alley-oops because Perkins isn't smart enough to know what rotational defense is? Too bad your team still can't run their offense through Dwight Howard yet, that's just sad. That's why your team was relied upon Vince freaking Carter to win games.

And no Dwight can't score against Sheed, Maxiell, Gasol and he definitely can't do jack-shiz against Yao.

[PimpORL]

Yeah that's a lot better than um, what Big Z? Samuel Dalembert? Theo Ratliff? There's a reason why your boy does nothing against guys like Sheed, Perkins, Maxiell, even freaking Gasol.

Actually, no, Bynum is not a lot better. lol The only player Dwight had real problems with this season was Perkins, and he eventually got around that. Try harder.

He got around? By what, getting a bunch of tip-ins and alley-oops because Perkins isn't smart enough to know what rotational defense is? Too bad your team still can't run their offense through Dwight Howard yet, that's just sad. That's why your team was relied upon Vince freaking Carter to win games.

And no Dwight can't score against Sheed, Maxiell, Gasol and he definitely can't do jack-shiz against Yao.

Let me guess, you're Chinese?

[WorthyBlitz42]

Let me guess, you're Chinese?

Let me guess, Dwight Howard is overrated and the Orlando Magic are the biggest chokers in NBA History. Oh that's not a guess, that's just being right.

[PimpORL]

Let me guess, you're Chinese?

Let me guess, Dwight Howard is overrated and the Orlando Magic are the biggest chokers in NBA History. Oh that's not a guess, that's just being right.

HAHHAHAHA
Magic are chokers. GOT YOU.
Yea, you're Chinese.

[WorthyBlitz42]

Yea, you're Chinese.

Yeah, but Yao Ming is still better than Dwight Howard when healthy, so I don't get your point.

[LarsV8]

Dwights a nice player, but gotta go with Yao.

[skones]

Yao Ming when healthy all day every day.

[tsherkin]

Yao is OK. I mean, when he's healthy (which is a rare thing), he's a noted defender who defends Dwight rather well in particular.

His offense is OK, but apart from one playoff run of 7 games and one 48-game season, his offense isn't really separated from Dwight. He gives a different look with his jumper, that's for sure, but he (like Dwight) isn't the greatest passer I've ever seen. Very efficient on offense, though, because of his FG% and FT% and because he does draw fouls quite well.

Yao is not going to be consistently healthy, not while his team is going to him for 15+ shots a game and 37+ mpg. He needs to be playing 30-33 mpg in the regular season the way Old Shaq has done. It helps preserve the body, and Yao's got huge stress on his because of his height. Don't make him the centerpiece of the offense, because his body can't carry the load. He's a fantastic secondary weapon and he's a very valuable playoff scoring tool, but he's got notable limitations that the Rockets have ignored.

Yao is a very good player who's an extremely good defender when his coach doesn't have him trying to take charges (he's not flipping quick enough!), but he's not better than Dwight. When he's healthy, he's not far off and sometimes on the same plane, but certainly not better.

And frankly, with his injury concerns, I have absolutely no faith in him. Figure this:

Prior to missing the ENTIRE 09-10 season, Yao had played about 59 games per season over the previous 4 years... and that's INCLUDING a 77-game season that came about because his shot rate dropped and he played under 34 mpg (reasonable things to do with Yao).

A properly-used Yao should be good for 18-21 ppg on outstanding efficiency and 8-10 rpg. That's really good stuff, especially given his defensive impact.

BUT, he's going to be 30 if he does play next year, and he's not healthy to begin with.

He's had osteomyelitis in his toe that required surgery and forced him to miss 21 games (bone marrow infection). Then he broke a bone in his left foot. Then he broke his right knee (missed 34 games because of that one, which sucked because he was averaging like 27/10 at the time).

Then he had a stress fracture in his left foot. He had surgery to put screws in his foot to strengthen the bone. Then he had a hairline fracture, also in his left foot. A pattern emerges. This is the injury that has been labeled "potentially career-threatening" and that ultimately allowed the Rockets to get the disabled player exception to the cap.

So, approaching 30, radically over-sized, and now he's had 3 major injuries to the bones in the same foot. That's a rather significant concern, which sort of invalidates the basic premise of this thread.

I just wanted to get that out of the way, because in reality, this is a significant part of what separates Dwight from Yao.

But OK, let's look at these guys when they're healthy, because that's the nature of the thread.

Yao is a better scoring threat than Dwight. He's more consistent because it's far harder to guard him. You have to guard extra hard to stop an entry pass to him because he's a half-foot or more taller than pretty much anyone in the league that tries to guard him except for Shaq and Big Z. If he catches it above his shoulders, he can just turn and shoot, and he shoots very well. Yao's jumper from 16-23 feet isn't all that impressive, or hasn't been lately, but he's BRUTALLY effective from 10-15 feet, shooting 46-48% on those shots the last three years. He gets assisted a lot there, but that's no surprise nor any serious knock on him. The ability to just wheel and fire at will and connect at that kind of efficiency is intensely valuable. Where Dwight struggles a lot to score if he can't get it done in the PnR, in transition or from the offensive glass, you rarely see Yao struggle with any individual defender because of that jumper. Howard is a very unpolished scorer without a really brutal go-to move that works as a fallback to whatever situation he gets into just yet. He's young, and maybe it'll come (and boy is he still really effective even with what he's got now), but Yao has that kind of tool.

Yao isn't a better defender than Dwight, though. He's not a better shot-blocker, he's not a better defensive rebounder, he doesn't rotate and trap as quickly... the only thing he does have in his favor is that he can overwhelm certain opponents with his height and make it very difficult to score directly on him as the man defender. He remains a very GOOD defender, but it should be pointed out that the Rockets had their two best defensive rankings in seasons where Yao played 48 and 55 games; they weren't exactly struggling on defense with Yao out for extended periods of time because Van Gundy (and, surprisingly, Adelman) both seemed to be able to use their other players quite effectively to play great team defense.

Statistically speaking, there's almost no difference between Yao and Dwight on offense. Similar per-game averages, almost identical ORTGs, very similar TS... Again, Yao has that jumper that he can turn to in a pinch as a fallback, but Dwight's also noticeably more dangerous inside of 10 feet than Yao.

It's patently incorrect to say that a healthy Yao is better than Dwight, because he doesn't really do anything noticeably better apart from shoot, and while that has value, Dwight does tons of stuff that Yao doesn't. It makes them differ stylistically, but scoring is consistently overrated in comparisons like this, and ultimately, Dwight's able to make a larger impact when his offensive game isn't going. When Yao isn't hitting those jumpers, he's not nearly as effective as Dwight.

For that reason, I have to call this one a draw. I find it really difficult to separate the two. Put a gun to my head, I say Dwight, but from the standpoint of understanding what Yao does bring, it's fairer to say that they are on the same tier, without any clear separation if you ignore health.