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Minny-Indy

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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#21 » by shrink » Mon Jul 5, 2010 1:08 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:I have a feeling Larry Bird would absolutely love to have Kevin Love and would only need a small incentive on top of K love to get Granger. I think Flynn/Love gets it done if they can get the finances to match


I agree. As much as Danny Granger is the face of the team, they are building through youth, and I think in 2011-12, their entire roster is guys on rookie deals and Granger. IND could even use the additional cap space of the deal, since they have spent right up to the lux this year already, and a little flexibility would add comfort.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#22 » by MNPacersfan » Wed Jul 7, 2010 4:34 am

No Granger without a player that Bird sees as a franchise guy.

Love and Sessions can definitely get you Mike Dunleavy.

MN doesn't have a franchise player, no deal is happening without one.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#23 » by Esohny » Wed Jul 7, 2010 4:42 am

MNPacersfan wrote:No Granger without a player that Bird sees as a franchise guy.

Love and Sessions can definitely get you Mike Dunleavy.

MN doesn't have a franchise player, no deal is happening without one.


:roll:

Is the weather nice in Fantasy-Land?
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#24 » by MNPacersfan » Wed Jul 7, 2010 5:56 pm

Esohny wrote:
MNPacersfan wrote:No Granger without a player that Bird sees as a franchise guy.
Love and Sessions can definitely get you Mike Dunleavy.
MN doesn't have a franchise player, no deal is happening without one.

:roll:
Is the weather nice in Fantasy-Land?


No fantasy, Bird sees Granger as a franchise guy.
Who is Minnesota's franchise player? Trust me, there isn't one. If it was Jefferson there would be teams interested in him. If no one wants your guy, he's not a franchise player.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#25 » by Devilzsidewalk » Wed Jul 7, 2010 6:08 pm

if Granger is a franchise player then the Hawks have 3 of them yet they can't even get past the 2nd round, franchise players just don't get you what they used to I guess
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#26 » by MNPacersfan » Wed Jul 7, 2010 6:21 pm

Again,
Bird sees Granger as a franchise player. What you or I see him as doesn't matter.

My post was regarding what Bird will take. Basically, he sees Granger's value as being extremely high, and he's not trading him for K-Love and a bag of crap.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#27 » by dunkonu21 » Wed Jul 7, 2010 6:36 pm

Pacers fan, if you think you are going to end the discussion on this topic you are wrong. So either come with something new or let it be.


I think with the news that Luke Ridnour coming to visit either means something with David Lee...or it means we are working on a deal to give Sessions or Flynn combined with Love for Granger.

Ridnour/Flynn
Wesley/Webster
Granger/Webster
Lee/Pek
Darko/Pek

Pacers:
Sessions/Ford
Stevenson/Dunleavy/Rush
George/Rolle
Love/McRoberts
Murphy/Hibbert
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#28 » by Dewey » Wed Jul 7, 2010 6:44 pm

MNPacersfan wrote:Again,
Bird sees Granger as a franchise player. What you or I see him as doesn't matter.

My post was regarding what Bird will take. Basically, he sees Granger's value as being extremely high, and he's not trading him for K-Love and a bag of crap.


Like anyone, Bird wants more value in return than what he gives ...
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#29 » by MNPacersfan » Wed Jul 7, 2010 8:24 pm

dunkonu21 wrote:Pacers fan, if you think you are going to end the discussion on this topic you are wrong. So either come with something new or let it be.

I think with the news that Luke Ridnour coming to visit either means something with David Lee...or it means we are working on a deal to give Sessions or Flynn combined with Love for Granger.


I'm confused. There isn't anything new. Bird struck out on trying to pick up Flynn (thankfully) for the 10th pick. I'm pretty sure that after Kahn's comments about the Pacers trying to trade him all their worst for all his best that Bird's done dealing with him. A series of Hail Mary attempts did he call them? Is that new; that Kahn insulted the Pacers organization, rendering a deal impossible?
I saw your depth chart, forget that for a moment. If you're IND, why would you take Love and Flynn for Granger? Actually analyze it. Murphy rebounds as well as Love and is a better scorer, plus Hansbrough is supposed to be the starting 4 of the future (I can't stand that kid). Where does Love get the Pacers that makes them better, much less willing to give up their top scorer and fan favorite? Trading the 10 pick (which the Pacers were luke warm on keeping in the first place) for Flynn is one thing, but giving up (again) the team's top scorer and fan favorite for a guy that plays no defense and has trouble handling the ball in transition doesn't make any sense. Flynn looks a lot like TJ Ford (doing first and think later) right now, but I think that Flynn is smart enough to learn the game, Ford doesn't seem to be...
All you've told me is that the Pacers should give up Granger for a duplicitous big and a guy that isn't ready to run a team because it balances the roster. New enough?

I'm not here to insult the Wolves. I wish the Wolves were better, but they aren't, and I'm going to be watching them be terrible live and in person at least once a month next season...

That said...
I would be surprised if Ridnour plays in Minnesota unless Flynn is out.* Knowing that Sessions was the better point guard last year and Flynn still got the starts, why would Ridnour pass up starting for the Knicks to play backup for a worse team in Minnesota?
*I really doubt that Flynn is out after they invested a full year of triangle in him. He's a smart kid, the more he plays the more he'll get it. Remember watching Randy Foye make all the same mistakes year after year? Flynn will learn and he'll get exponentially better.

It looks as if David Lee will end up in PHX by the way. The players and the teams make too much sense for there to not be more to that. We'll know more tomorrow.

I like Wes Johnson quite a lot. He's gotten knocked for being a little timid, but I think that he's a Danny Granger type of player. He's not going to be the franchise (see, I can admit it), but he's strong all-around, and he'll work his tail off. I'm still shocked that they passed on James Anderson at 16 to get Martell Webster. Webster is a bit of a reclamation project and it seemed that Anderson would have been a nice young piece to add at this stage in the team's development.
I think that the Wolves will be smart with the space that they have left, maybe even sending out a couple of youngsters for an older player with a larger contract. Or moving Jefferson for an even larger deal. I just can't see any of the impact on the team coming from signing any free agents.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#30 » by dunkonu21 » Wed Jul 7, 2010 9:06 pm

That was a decent post, but you are so wrong about that trade. Flynn is worth quite a lot on the open market, as you can see with people like Lawson and Collison. Even though Flynn is better than both (although Collison looks very close), you notice how crazy valuable those two are.

Pacers are rebuilding, you must not see that. They need pieces that can grow up together, their qing situation is gonna be so young. I heard OBrien talking about his team being so young, but Granger is a little bit older than all your pieces. The Wolves are older than the Pacers and Granger's age would fit with them.

Flynn and Love's age would fit in well with Stevenson, George and Hibbert(kinda).

Murphy can get you a nice piece if u trade him, Ford sucks. McRoberts and Hansborough combined are not as good as Love.

Flynn
Stevenson
George
Love
Hibbert
is pretty dang good.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#31 » by prefuse73 » Wed Jul 7, 2010 9:56 pm

I think it makes sense, if we get Lee, to obtain another player that is about the same age so we have two guys entering their prime at the same time.

I have mentioned it before, I thinks its best to look at accumulated talent in terms of player ages.

1st wave - Lee, Granger

2nd wave - Webster, Johnson, Pekovic, Darko

3rd wave - Rubio, Love, Flynn

ideally, you would want two guys that can lead the franchise by the time they hit their primes.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#32 » by shrink » Wed Jul 7, 2010 9:59 pm

MNPacersfan wrote:
Esohny wrote:
MNPacersfan wrote:No Granger without a player that Bird sees as a franchise guy.
Love and Sessions can definitely get you Mike Dunleavy.
MN doesn't have a franchise player, no deal is happening without one.

:roll:
Is the weather nice in Fantasy-Land?


No fantasy, Bird sees Granger as a franchise guy.
Who is Minnesota's franchise player? Trust me, there isn't one. If it was Jefferson there would be teams interested in him. If no one wants your guy, he's not a franchise player.


You lost your credibility thinking Dunleavey had trade value to MIN.

And you shouldn't be pointing the "no franchise player" finger, when Granger doesn't meet the criteria either.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#33 » by MNPacersfan » Wed Jul 7, 2010 10:10 pm

[quote=
You lost your credibility thinking Dunleavey had trade value to MIN.

And you shouldn't be pointing the "no franchise player" finger, when Granger doesn't meet the criteria either.[/quote]

I didn't say that Dunleavy had value to MIN. But you can get him for Love and a PG, guaranteed.
I too, think that Granger is a 2nd guy, not a franchise guy - which I mentioned in posts...

Read up, then come back to me.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#34 » by MNPacersfan » Wed Jul 7, 2010 10:18 pm

dunkonu21 wrote:That was a decent post, but you are so wrong about that trade. Flynn is worth quite a lot on the open market, as you can see with people like Lawson and Collison. Even though Flynn is better than both (although Collison looks very close), you notice how crazy valuable those two are.
Pacers are rebuilding, you must not see that. They need pieces that can grow up together, their qing situation is gonna be so young. I heard OBrien talking about his team being so young, but Granger is a little bit older than all your pieces. The Wolves are older than the Pacers and Granger's age would fit with them.
Flynn and Love's age would fit in well with Stevenson, George and Hibbert(kinda).
Murphy can get you a nice piece if u trade him, Ford sucks. McRoberts and Hansborough combined are not as good as Love.


What I see and what Bird sees are two different things. I'm not the GM, but I've been witnessing his tactics for a while now. Honestly, I think Lawson is better at running a team than Flynn, and I think he'll stay better in that regard. Once Flynn learns to make decisions sooner in the penetration he'll be a deadly finisher though. Collison's decision making is suspect (as evidenced by all the TOs)...

Anyway, yes, the Pacers are rebuilding, but they're building around Granger and Hibbert. That's the plan, we've heard it repeatedly.
I'm shooting for the realistic side here. They're not giving Granger up unless someone floors them with an offer they can't refuse.

Oh and, I too would much rather have Love than the McRoberts and/or Hansbrough.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#35 » by shrink » Wed Jul 7, 2010 10:19 pm

Granger and Hibbert can definitely get you Darko!

Hooray! I contributed a post to RealGM! I'm credible, and people should listen to me!
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#36 » by MNPacersfan » Wed Jul 7, 2010 10:20 pm

shrink wrote:Granger and Hibbert can definitely get you Darko!

Hooray! I contributed a post to RealGM! I'm credible!


Wow, most of you guys are dicks.
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#37 » by Saltine » Wed Jul 7, 2010 10:22 pm

I like Darko... I'd give them Hollins though, and throw in a 2012 second rounder.

Maybe give you Love, Sessions, and Brewer for Granger :)
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#38 » by shrink » Wed Jul 7, 2010 10:22 pm

Nah - just me. I'm on a roll being an ass lately.

But c'mon, you got to admit when you post something like that on another team's board, you can't expect to rise in people's esteem?
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#39 » by MNPacersfan » Wed Jul 7, 2010 10:35 pm

shrink wrote:But c'mon, you got to admit when you post something like that on another team's board, you can't expect to rise in people's esteem?


I should have taken into account that I'm probably the only one trolling the Wolves board that watches 75 Pacer games, watches all of the press conferences online, views draft workouts on the Pacer site... Anyway, it's been engrained that Roy and Danny are the building blocks. I know that, no one else here does.
Agreed, I should have led stronger.

Oh and Granger and Hibbert can definitely get the Pacers Darko. Probably with a little filler thrown in for good measure :)
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Re: Minny-Indy 

Post#40 » by Dewey » Wed Jul 7, 2010 10:53 pm

MNPacersfan wrote:
shrink wrote:But c'mon, you got to admit when you post something like that on another team's board, you can't expect to rise in people's esteem?


I should have taken into account that I'm probably the only one trolling the Wolves board that watches 75 Pacer games, watches all of the press conferences online, views draft workouts on the Pacer site... Anyway, it's been engrained that Roy and Danny are the building blocks. I know that, no one else here does.
Agreed, I should have led stronger.

Oh and Granger and Hibbert can definitely get the Pacers Darko. Probably with a little filler thrown in for good measure :)


:roll:
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"

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