Mike Miller S&T Deal to the Heat?

[jmrosenth]

According the Sun Sentinel this is being worked on:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 0538.story

Any idea what we could expect back. Trade exception and a 2nd round pick?

[pineappleheadindc]

Where you been JRo?

Hope you and yours are well.

[jmrosenth]

Actually if we truly renounced Mike Miller's rights, can we do this?

[nate33]

According the Sun Sentinel this is being worked on:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 0538.story

Any idea what we could expect back. Trade exception and a 2nd round pick?

The Wizards won't be involved. It looks like a pure free agent signing.

For a while, I thought it might be a possibility that we'd arrange a sign-and-trade for Beasley so that Miami could utilize the 125% exemption to pay him more money than what they could pay him with cap room. But with Beasley going to Minnesota, that's off the table.

[verbal8]

A trade could be set up with Beasley going to MIN and Miller S&T to MIA and Washington taking no players back.

However Mike Miller had to be renounced to free up the cap space to complete the Hinrich deal. That deal has been completed.

They could have given Miller a deal for roughly 5 years and 35 million(using 125% rule and max raises). With a straight signing using the space freed up by Beasley, they can give him about 27 million.

[nate33]

However Mike Miller had to be renounced to free up the cap space to complete the Hinrich deal. That deal has been completed.

Teams can still S&T a renounced player.

By renouncing him, we gave up our opportunity to use Bird Rights to resign him. However, we can still resign him with raw cap space. We still have enough cap room to sign him to the size contract that Miami expects to pay (assuming we renounce Haywood's TPE first).

Theoretically, we could sign Miller, send him to Miami, have Miami sent Beasley to Minnesota, and have Minnesota generate a TPE to send to us.

[Rafael122]

Why are we collecting so many TPE's, Nate...if this goes through?

[keynote]

^ And, why would they bother going through us? MIN still has the cap room to absorb Beasley directly, don't they?

[nate33]

Why are we collecting so many TPE's, Nate...if this goes through?

Well, we'd relinquish our $6M TPE first, and then we'd acquire a $4.9 TPE for Beasley. (I think. We may not acquire a TPE at all.)

[verbal8]

^ And, why would they bother going through us? MIN still has the cap room to absorb Beasley directly, don't they?

To pay Miller more money. If it is not a S&T for an actual player they can not use the 125% rule.

[nate33]

^ And, why would they bother going through us? MIN still has the cap room to absorb Beasley directly, don't they?

The only reason for them to do it this way is if Mike Miller wants to be paid more than that the $5M they can otherwise afford to pay him after dumping Beasley onto Minnesota. With this setup, they can pay Miller 125% of Beasley's outgoing 5M salary - or $6.25M.

I'd expect for the Wizards to receive some form of cheap compensation from somebody (cash or a 2nd rounder) for accommodating the trade.

[Severn Hoos]

^ And, why would they bother going through us? MIN still has the cap room to absorb Beasley directly, don't they?

The only reason for them to do it this way is if Mike Miller wants to be paid more than that the $5M they can otherwise afford to pay him after dumping Beasley onto Minnesota. With this setup, they can pay Miller 125% of Beasley's outgoing 5M salary - or $6.25M.

I'd expect for the Wizards to receive some form of cheap compensation from somebody (cash or a 2nd rounder) for accommodating the trade.

I suspect it's academic, but wouldn't such a scenario - swapping the $6M TPE for a $4.9M TPE (Beasley) be a smaller version of what you were asking about in another thread? Cutting $1M from the TPS adds $1M to the cap space, no? i.e. - instead of a $6M TPE and $4.2M in cap space, it would be $4.9M TPE and $5.3M in cap space?

Probably moot, since I assume we lost cap space by signing our 1st rounders at the higher salary vs. the scale they were previously counted against the cap, but it's still fun to search for the loopholes. This must be the kind of stuff Larry Coon spends his entire day thinking about...

[jmrosenth]

The article dropped the part about working out the S&T w/ Wash so I guess that was an incorrect statement. Maybe it will still happen, who knows.

[LyricalRico]

I suspect it's academic, but wouldn't such a scenario - swapping the $6M TPE for a $4.9M TPE (Beasley) be a smaller version of what you were asking about in another thread? Cutting $1M from the TPS adds $1M to the cap space, no? i.e. - instead of a $6M TPE and $4.2M in cap space, it would be $4.9M TPE and $5.3M in cap space?

My understanding is that we don't "receive" the TPE as if it were part of the trade. Instead, we're essentially "awarded" the TPE through the CBA because we sent out salary without taking any back. If that's the case, then the value of the TPE would be based on the outgoing player's contract. If that's the case, we'd be eating cap space but gaining a larger TPE. Does that make sense?

[Severn Hoos]

I suspect it's academic, but wouldn't such a scenario - swapping the $6M TPE for a $4.9M TPE (Beasley) be a smaller version of what you were asking about in another thread? Cutting $1M from the TPS adds $1M to the cap space, no? i.e. - instead of a $6M TPE and $4.2M in cap space, it would be $4.9M TPE and $5.3M in cap space?

My understanding is that we don't "receive" the TPE as if it were part of the trade. Instead, we're essentially "awarded" the TPE through the CBA because we sent out salary without taking any back. If that's the case, then the value of the TPE would be based on the outgoing player's contract. If that's the case, we'd be eating cap space but gaining a larger TPE. Does that make sense?

So are you assuming $4.9M (Beasley's salary) x 125% + $100K (max salary they could offer Miller & fit it in to the trade) = $6.25M (approx) TPE to the Wiz? Or maybe I'm doing the math wrong? I wonder if we could finagle the TPE to be big enough to accommodate Marvin Williams?

Again, totally academic....

[LyricalRico]

I suspect it's academic, but wouldn't such a scenario - swapping the $6M TPE for a $4.9M TPE (Beasley) be a smaller version of what you were asking about in another thread? Cutting $1M from the TPS adds $1M to the cap space, no? i.e. - instead of a $6M TPE and $4.2M in cap space, it would be $4.9M TPE and $5.3M in cap space?

My understanding is that we don't "receive" the TPE as if it were part of the trade. Instead, we're essentially "awarded" the TPE through the CBA because we sent out salary without taking any back. If that's the case, then the value of the TPE would be based on the outgoing player's contract. If that's the case, we'd be eating cap space but gaining a larger TPE. Does that make sense?

So are you assuming $4.9M (Beasley's salary) x 125% + $100K (max salary they could offer Miller & fit it in to the trade) = $6.25M (approx) TPE to the Wiz? Or maybe I'm doing the math wrong? I wonder if we could finagle the TPE to be big enough to accommodate Marvin Williams?

Again, totally academic....

Yep, that's exactly what I'm thinking. It actually comes to just over $6.3M, so it's pretty neutral to us from a cap perspective. Instead of having a $6M TPE and $4.2M in cap space, we'd have a $6.3M TPE and $3.9M in cap space.

[Hoops23]

According the Sun Sentinel this is being worked on:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 0538.story

Any idea what we could expect back. Trade exception and a 2nd round pick?

why would Miami make a S&T for Miller if they can have him for free??
It doesn't makes sense for Miami to make a S&T.

[verbal8]

According the Sun Sentinel this is being worked on:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 0538.story

Any idea what we could expect back. Trade exception and a 2nd round pick?

why would Miami make a S&T for Miller if they can have him for free??
It doesn't makes sense for Miami to make a S&T.

If they do it as a S&T they can use cap space to sign other players first.

[LyricalRico]

^ Not exactly. They would still need to have enough cap space to absorb Miller's contract since they aren't sending any contracts back to the Wizards. If they use up all their cap space on other players, they won't have room to acquire Miller.

The reason to do it as a sign and trade would be to give Miller 10.5% raises so that they can start him at a lower salary to reserve their cap space for other guys.

[verbal8]

^ Not exactly. They would still need to have enough cap space to absorb Miller's contract since they aren't sending any contracts back to the Wizards. If they use up all their cap space on other players, they won't have room to acquire Miller.

The reason to do it as a sign and trade would be to give Miller 10.5% raises so that they can start him at a lower salary to reserve their cap space for other guys.

I was assuming a Miller S&T would be part of the Beasley to MIN deal. I do not see the Beasley deal as being officially completed, so that may be why.