Sources: Shaq to meet with Riley Wed.

[631_Heat]

Source: Free agent center Shaquille O'Neal is expected to meet with Heat president Pat Riley on Wednesday. It is unknown if the meeting is to see if interest is there or if both parties are interested. O'Neal would need to sign for the veterans minimum.

[retrospect24]

Didn't they part on pretty bad terms?

[Jordan45822]

RIP 2011 Miami Heat

[Manuel Calavera]

Didn't they part on pretty bad terms?

That + the RuPaul factor make this unbelievable.

[VTi]

The Big Ring Chaser at it again... Shaq now being the 4th or 5th option... or coming from the bench... great stuff.

[Bruh Man]

Didn't they part on pretty bad terms?

That + the RuPaul factor make this unbelievable.

I completely forgot about that

[redbak]

Just like the giant (big show) joining the nWo.

[dreamcloud]

That would be ridiculous if they got Shaq as well, ffs

but yea i wonder i would think shaq would make Bosh uncomfortable in the lockerroom lol..

[ball_dont_lie]

Didn't they part on pretty bad terms?

That + the RuPaul factor make this unbelievable.

And keeping these 2 points in mind....if Shaq does end up joining the Heat...then he def would be the biggest ring chaser in the nba.

[sp6r=underrated]

Why would Miami want Shaq? He doesn't help teams anymore. I wrote this before the PS started

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=999542#p22885005

I think this is a legitimate topic even though it is really just a continuation of the topic that me and tsherkin have gone over earlier in the season. My position is Shaq really didn't help the Suns at all last year, and isn't helping the Cavs this year. tsherkin, thinks he was making a positive contribution last year I think is overly influenced by Shaq's impressive box score. First the objective evidence:

I. There is no evidence that Shaq has helped the Cavs this year.

A. Cavs record last year: 66-16, Avg. Margin of Victory 8.93

B. Cavs record this year in games w/o Shaq*: 18-2 (10 Home, 10 Away)
(Opponents winning Percentages: .397), Avg Margin of Victory: 8.35

C. Cavs record when Shaq plays: 40-13, Avg Margin of Victory: 7.28

D. Shaq's plus/minus data: -3.13

* I disregarded the two games that are played w/o Lebron

Now, in fairness to Shaq the schedule has been soft w/o him in the lineup and it was hard with him. But overall body of evidence supports the conclusion Shaq hasn't helped the team. They were a better team last year. They have a much better record when he is injured. They have a larger point differential without him. In games when he is not injured the team plays better with him on the bench.

II. The Suns have been a much better team this season than last season.

A. 2009 Suns Record: 46-36

B. 2009 Suns Point Differential: 1.93

C. 2010 Suns Record: 49-26

D. 2010 Suns Point Differential: 4.59

The Suns have been markedly better this year after basically giving Shaq away. Originally, tsherkin felt the Suns would skid out over a hot start:

Steve Nash is playing better, and the Suns are skidding out HARDCORE this year. They won 46 games last year and while it's true that they're on-pace for about 45 this year... they started 14-3 and have since gone 8-18.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=980729&p=22091976#p22092947

Now, that argument is no longer valid so tsherkin offers several different reasons for the difference in performance which I will address later.

III. Shaq's hurt the 08 Suns

Shaq, was acquired in a mid-season trade with Miami. Shaq missed the first few games and played his first games against the Lakers.

A. Phoenix Suns before making the trade. 34-14,
Avg Margin of Victory: 6.14,
22 Home, 26 Away
Opponents winning percentages: .465

B. Phoenix Suns w/Shaq in lineup: 17-11
Avg. Margin of Victory: 3.32
15 Home, 13 Away
Opponents winning percentages: .563

Now, the schedule was harder with Shaq, but the drop off is quite large. The Suns were playing like a title contender before making the trade, and weren't after acquiring him.

IV. Summary

Shaq for the last three seasons have been tied to teams that achieved better results with him elsewhere. I have established this through several different measurements. Thus, I have presented sufficient evidence to support my position that Shaq hasn't helped team. tsherkin offers several counter-explanations that I'll address.

V. The Suns success this year and failure last year is difficult to tie to Amare..

Amare, despite his box score numbers has not been essential to the Suns success this year. He has a terrible plus/minus -6.13 (http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers. ... 0&team=PHX). The Suns have generally played pretty well in games when he was injured outside 2009. That's why I'm quite skeptical of the idea that Amare's injury caused the decline of the Suns.

VI. The coaching change didn't really help the Suns that much.

A. Under Coach Porter: 28-23, ( 24 Home, 27 Away) (Avg. Margin of Victory: .941)
B. Under Coach Gentry: 17-11, (17 Home, 14 Away) (Avg. Margin of Victory: 3.921)



Now, as you stated we only had a two game body of evidence to see what the trio of Shaq, Amare, and Nash could do together, but based on the three seasons worth of evidence we have, I see little reason to think they would be doing better with Shaq.


btw: Shaq did steal Nash's idea for a TV show so he wasn't totally drama free.

VII. Conclusion

Shaq's arrival in Phoenix marked the immediate end of the Suns contending for championships. Contrary to myth they were still playing like a title contender before the trade. Shaq gets traded away from Phoenix for basically nothing and the suns immediately improve. The cavaliers have played slightly worse this year in comparison to last year, and play better with him on the bench in games in which he isn't injured. I don't believe he helps teams anymore despite the nice box score numbers he still puts up. I'm curious for others thoughts on the matter.

Miami only need to sign players without egos who will do as their told and who have versatile games that can adapt to the needs of the big three. Shaq has a huge ego and is maybe the least versatile player in NBA history. Miami doesn't need Shaq and he would likely hurt the team. Riley is smart enough to recognize this.

[dreamcloud]

Didn't they part on pretty bad terms?

That + the RuPaul factor make this unbelievable.

And keeping these 2 points in mind....if Shaq does end up joining the Heat...then he def would be the biggest ring chaser in the nba.

Well he's already earned his share of rings in his prime so who cares..

[Dr Positivity]

As someone hoping the Heat fail in 10-11, I sincerely hope they sign Shaq

[Kosar86]

As someone hoping the Heat fail in 10-11, I sincerely hope they sign Shaq

And AI to run the point...it will be a real life sports equivalent to the movie The Expendables

[retrospect24]

As someone hoping the Heat fail in 10-11, I sincerely hope they sign Shaq

And Stephon Marbury to run the point...it will be a real life sports equivalent to the movie The Expendables

fixed

[heatwillbeback]

I would rather not bother with Shaq.....Rasho Nesterovic excites me more than Shaq

[BIRDMAN BIRDMAN]

link?

[NADALbULLS]

Shaq going for rings 5, 6 and 7.

[Calvin Klein]

STEIN_LINE_HQ

RT @wallacesports: Cavs free-agent C Zydrunas Ilgauskas tells Miami Herald he's "looking into option" of joining buddy LeBron in Miami


Didn't Z once said a few months ago he wouldn't like to play anywhere else?

[shawngoat23]

Why would Miami want Shaq? He doesn't help teams anymore. I wrote this before the PS started

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=999542#p22885005

I agreed with you on that post, and I led the "Shaq is declining and overrated" bandwagon back when he was in Miami (because his recent teams are more productive with the likes of Channing Frye, Anderson Varejao, etc., not to mention his locker room problems), but in this case, I think Shaq can help Miami if he puts his ego aside.

Miami has almost no players right now, and while I'm sure they'll get some ring chasers or D-league surprises at the minimum, they're much more likely to be able to fill guard or wing spots with those types of players. Those types of guys are really easy to replace, as Golden State pretty much showed. But it's really tough to get a big man this late in the game, let alone a true center and at least one or two backups, unless Miami wants to watch Bosh get demolished by Dwight Howard inside.

If nothing else, Shaq is the best true center still available. When one of the most appealing options at center is Kwame Brown, that's when you know you're hurting for quality bigs.

[shawngoat23]

STEIN_LINE_HQ

RT @wallacesports: Cavs free-agent C Zydrunas Ilgauskas tells Miami Herald he's "looking into option" of joining buddy LeBron in Miami


Didn't Z once said a few months ago he wouldn't like to play anywhere else?

I don't think Cleveland has offered him a contract back.