The Heat and Tampering

[Hoops23]

lj4MVP,
What rider said is just a speculation of what have possibly happen. There no proof to what he said. Besides, like Bosh, Wade is a free agent too which he and Bosh can talk about things for their future. It was even publish in a lot of reports that the two are talking together, then if it was publicly said, the NBA could have acted already if its tampering.

I'm convince that when the trio decides to sign the same contracts length, the Heat got a good read that they might want to play together. That is why for several years, they planned it well. So Miami was ahead of every team of the plan. Thats why the results turn out well.

[heatwillbeback]

so players cant talk about free agency with friends until the day comes?

good luck with that. The whole league may be guilty of tampering at some point than

[boogydown]

There's absolutely no evidence of tampering by the Heat organization. Players are permitted to talk to each other and discuss future opportunities to play with one another.

From my understanding, they can if they have the same agent. In this case, the Heat luck out there.

Unless Riley was using Wade as his agent to orchestrate this entire deal (something that can never be proved) there's no way the league is going to punish them for tampering.

That is what a deposition/subpoena is for. They can of course lie in the deposition, but if during that time they catch them in a lie, then they will be held in contempt for perjury. Obviously some strong evidence has to be brought up before any of that happens.

More likely these three guys have been talking about playing together for a while and Wade let Riley know about it, thereby allowing Riley to clear up his roster to sign all three of them. None of that amounts to tampering, it's just a smart GM with inside info taking advantage of a golden opportunity.

I'm sure Riley was involved in some way.

Do you honestly think that Wade would even try to recruit those two if Miami was committed to signing them? Riley told him to recruit these best two guys possible.

Can that be proved really will depend on how badly the league and people around them want to investigate and get people to find sources who know about these discussions.

I would say it's very unlikely anything happens out of this.

[Free Rider]

everything you just said is tampering.

95. What is tampering?

Tampering is when a player or team directly or indirectly entices, induces or persuades anybody (player, general manager, etc.) who is under contract with another team to negotiate for their services. The NBA takes tampering very seriously and may impose stiff penalties if it is discovered, however the league will not investigate unless another team files tampering charges. Here are some examples:

The Miami Heat were discovered to have tampered with Pat Riley in 1995 by negotiating with Riley while he was still head coach of the New York Knicks. The Heat "settled," and avoided league-imposed penalties, by compensating the Knicks with $1 million and their first round draft pick in 1996.

After Will Perdue left San Antonio in the 1999 offseason to sign with Chicago, he commented to the press about the possibility of the Bulls signing Tim Duncan and/or Grant Hill in 2000. The league considered this to be tampering, and issued Perdue a warning.

You may have noticed that when general managers and other team personnel talk to the press, they are careful to avoid talking about specific players who play for other teams. They do this in order to avoid tampering.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q95

No it isn't. Look at what you just quoted. Tampering occurs when a player or team directly or indirectly entices, induces or persuades anybody who is under contract with another team to negotiate for their services. If RIley simply knows that these guys are discussing playing with each other in 2010 and works entirely independently from them to create a cap situation that allows them to play together then there's no tampering because he did not entice, induce or persuade LeBron or Bosh to negotiate for their services. Riley's knowledge about their intentions doesn't amount to tampering if he avoids any and all contact with them and doesn't work through Wade to convince them to come to the Heat. Now if he worked in concert with Wade and used Wade as his agent to persuade and entice these guys to come over to Miami that would amount to tampering. But as I said, there's absolutely no evidence of that. We can speculate all we want about whether Riley did so but there's probably no way to prove it.

[Jordan45822]

I don't buy it

[boogydown]

It's only tampering if non player who is employed by another team attempts to discuss matters of contracts with them.

In this case, Riley spoke with Wade who spoke with Bosh/Lebron. It will be difficult to prove that Riley indirectly tried to recruit these two before free agency as Wade can simply say he was the one who tried to get them to Miami, not Riley.

That doesn't mean they can't find someone outside that may have inside sources and later depose Riley and Wade, but until they have some solid evidence, they can't even bring up a scandal case.

please read the tampering definition I posted above, players can most certainly be guilty of tampering.

Okay?

I didn't say otherwise.

Thanks though.

[KayDee35]

No evidence of tampering here.

I spent $16,000 on cavs season tickets next year not knowing before I made the first payment it had been prearranged that LeBron would leave the team to play for the heat. I spent thousands more for playoff tickets only to witness LeBron James flat out quit in game 5.

Sorry for your lost investment. But you should have seen this coming.

[Chester0]

It's only tampering if non player who is employed by another team attempts to discuss matters of contracts with them.

In this case, Riley spoke with Wade who spoke with Bosh/Lebron. It will be difficult to prove that Riley indirectly tried to recruit these two before free agency as Wade can simply say he was the one who tried to get them to Miami, not Riley.

That doesn't mean they can't find someone outside that may have inside sources and later depose Riley and Wade, but until they have some solid evidence, they can't even bring up a scandal case.

please read the tampering definition I posted above, players can most certainly be guilty of tampering.

Okay?

I didn't say otherwise.

Thanks though.

Um, yes you did. Bolded it for you. IF Wade did that while LeBron and Bosh were still under contract, by the definition LJ4MVP posted, that is tampering.

[boogydown]

so players cant talk about free agency with friends until the day comes?

good luck with that. The whole league may be guilty of tampering at some point than

If Wade talked to a friend who then reroutes it to another player, it may not be directly communicating with them, but they still made an attempt to indirectly communicate with another player.

I thought that for Wade and Bosh's case, they have the same agent so it doesn't matter but apparently from what I read it would still apply to both of them. The only difference is because they have the same agent, it's more difficult to prove and at the same time they could just weren't trying to recruit each other, they were keeping their options with their agent etc.

[Wade County]

Wade, Riley and Arison have been orchestrating this for years. This Brian Windhorst article gets into some of the details of the tampering that went on

During a rally for Miami Heat fans Friday night, Chris Bosh said he'd been talking with new teammates LeBron James and Dwyane Wade about the moment for months.

It was a slip, which some -- including Bosh -- quickly noticed. Bosh's statement hinted there was a long-standing plan in place to gather in Miami. That potentially would not only be against NBA rules, but also poor taste -- considering Bosh and James were supposedly completely focused on the task at hand with teams in Toronto and Cleveland.

Bosh quickly revised the statement and said they'd been talking about it for "days." But it was hardly correct. The truth is James, Bosh and Wade had been plotting this for years.

The article continues here

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... s_cou.html

ENOUGH WITH THE U MAD STUFF! Next attempt will be a suspension.

[boogydown]

[quote="Chester0"]My mistake.

I mean't Wade's agent.

Wade's agent can deny that they ever talked until free agency began. With that said, it's really not hard to prove it if they kept telling people around them because if Cleveland really wants revenge, they should pay people who are disloyal to them, find out what was really said, and then submit a dispute with the leagues office.

That would be a good message of Karma to Lebron.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Here's the thing, Wade may have recruited them earlier than he's allowed to, but there's almost no way for the league to prove this. I mean they've already joked about playing together one day, is that tampering too?

It'd just be too hard.

Now if there was some true conspiracy where players actually tanked games for their team, then they could get in trouble. But I don't think that's the case. If it was, why did LeBron beat Chicago before Boston, why not just tank that series?

I don't think anything was actually decided until near free agency in June, otherwise why the hell would the Cavs try to acquire Amare, and then trade for Jamison? But Wade may have talked to them about the Heat before he was supposed to in June, but again, there's almost no way the league can prove it or do anything about it.

And if you don't think stuff like that doesn't happen on a smaller scale all the time, you're seriously naive. It's just a first to see 3 superstars in their prime do it.

[Wade2k6]

95. What is tampering?

Tampering is when a player or team directly or indirectly entices, induces or persuades anybody (player, general manager, etc.) who is under contract with another team to negotiate for their services. The NBA takes tampering very seriously and may impose stiff penalties if it is discovered, however the league will not investigate unless another team files tampering charges. Here are some examples:

The Miami Heat were discovered to have tampered with Pat Riley in 1995 by negotiating with Riley while he was still head coach of the New York Knicks. The Heat "settled," and avoided league-imposed penalties, by compensating the Knicks with $1 million and their first round draft pick in 1996.

After Will Perdue left San Antonio in the 1999 offseason to sign with Chicago, he commented to the press about the possibility of the Bulls signing Tim Duncan and/or Grant Hill in 2000. The league considered this to be tampering, and issued Perdue a warning.

You may have noticed that when general managers and other team personnel talk to the press, they are careful to avoid talking about specific players who play for other teams. They do this in order to avoid tampering.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q95

What transpired is exactly what the tampering rules were designed to prevent.

I spent $16,000 on cavs season tickets next year not knowing before I made the first payment it had been prearranged that LeBron would leave the team to play for the heat. I spent thousands more for playoff tickets only to witness LeBron James flat out quit in game 5.

They left their options open to play together. And I'm pretty sure the NBA has absolutely no evidence or any inside information to PROVE that the Heat were tampering. You're using a desperate Cleveland writers article as some sort of "evidence", but his opinion is worthless and biased because he's upset that LeBron killed any chance Cleveland had at a major sports title.

[boogydown]

Here's the thing, Wade may have recruited them earlier than he's allowed to, but there's almost no way for the league to prove this. I mean they've already joked about playing together one day, is that tampering too?

Exactly.

It will be very hard to prove.

It'd just be too hard.

Now if there was some true conspiracy where players actually tanked games for their team, then they could get in trouble. But I don't think that's the case. If it was, why did LeBron beat Chicago before Boston, why not just tank that series?

Even harder to prove.

They'd have to give strong affidavits from people around him/players.

Delonte West may help with that unless he set a deal with Lebrons Mom.

I don't think anything was actually decided until near free agency in June, otherwise why the hell would the Cavs try to acquire Amare? But Wade may have talked to them about the Heat before he was supposed to in June, but again, there's almost no way the league can prove it or do anything about it.

And if you don't think stuff like that doesn't happen on a smaller scale all the time, you're seriously naive. It's just a first to see 3 superstars in their prime do it.

Like Tim mentioned, it will be very difficult. It's great that people say tampering was involved, but where is the evidence? Build evidence then you have a case.

Right now, I think tampering was involved but if you can't prove it then within 6 months I will have my doubts.

How can they get evidence?

- Offer a third party a deal who has information
- Depose them
- Subpoena records
- etc.

They can get it, but if they are smart which I think they were, they likely will get away with it.

[Chester0]

LeBron James is anything but smart.

[ikidunot]

Wait didn't Bosh say this was going on for months....

If Stern wants to find out something, Go to Bosh first, he seems to be the weakest link.

But don't worry, Mark Cuban already said he was going to talk to Stern.

[boogydown]

Wait didn't Bosh say this was going on for months....

If Stern wants to find out something, Go to Bosh first, he seems to be the weakest link.

But don't worry, Mark Cuban already said he was going to talk to Stern.

A team has to file a report with the leagues office before anything can happen.

[DrunkOnMystery]

The short version is: Yes, there was probably tampering. There was probably a pretty decent amount of it.

But if there's no evidence of the tampering, nothing will come of it, and if there WAS evidence of it, the league isn't going to void their contracts, and Miami already is short on draft picks. The short answer is that little would come in the way of punishment, even if it was proven.

[the_warden]

the free agent summit was not tampering. Players are allowed to talk about where they want to play, and if they want to play with one another

Any discussion at all of their joining together in Miami from the time they entered the league until July 1st, 2010 is tampering by Wade. Any involvement by Riley or Arison is also tampering.

good luck with that

[Chester0]

I really think Miami fans are mad that they are guilty. Ironic.