Where do you guys have Kobe in the all-time list now?

[LargeBabyDavis]

1.Michael Jordan
2.Magic Johnson
3.Wilt Chamberlain
4.Larry Bird
5. Kobe Bryant
6.Bill Russel
7.KAJ
8.Hakeem
9.Duncan
10.Shaquille O Neal

Kobe is pretty much as high as Ill let him

[Mamba Venom]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Kobe/Magic (Love Kobes D/records/longevity but I also love Magics humility)
5. Magic/Kobe
6. Wilt (didnt win enough to go higher, you cant be top 5 with ONLY 1 ring)
7. Shaq/Duncan
8. Duncan/Shaq
9. Bird
10. Hakeem

[NoDunksAllowed]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Kobe/Magic (Love Kobes D/records/longevity but I also love Magics humility)
5. Magic/Kobe
6. Wilt (didnt win enough to go higher, you cant be top 5 with ONLY 1 ring)
7. Shaq/Duncan
8. Duncan/Shaq
9. Bird
10. Hakeem

I like this list, other than where Bird is ranked, though I don't believe Kobe is greater than Duncan or Shaq yet either.

I think you and most people in this thread are underrating Bird, BIG TIME. Honestly, if you ask anybody who watched the 80s, most Laker fans will tell you that at one point, Bird was a better player than Magic at least in the early 80s....it was the late 80s when Magic started to make a case for himself because that was when he started to breakout and produce better.

Bird and Magic are hand-cuffed to one another and they always will be. Bird should always be standing right next to Magic in an all-time list.

[spree2kawhi]

Name one player in history more skilled than Kobe Bryant. Based on pure basketball-ability alone it would be even hard for me to rank Kobe below Jordan and I actually like his chances to finish #1.

I seriously challenge everybody here to come up with reasons to still rank Kobe lower than #2.

Kobe < Shaq, Duncan? that's sad...

[NoDunksAllowed]

Name one player in history more skilled than Kobe Bryant. Based on pure basketball-ability alone it would be even hard for me to rank Kobe below Jordan and I actually like his chances to finish #1.

I seriously challenge everybody here to come up with reasons to still rank Kobe lower than #2.

Kobe < Shaq, Duncan? that's sad...

Not sure how that is sad at all. Those two have still accomplished more than Kobe has. I think you might have missed Duncan and Shaq's peak years if you think it's sad to say they are greater/better than Kobe was. Kobe is my favorite of the three, but if you think it's sad to say Shaq and Duncan were greater. You clearly do not understand what you're talking about.

I could go in more detail, but Shaq had arguably one of the dominant primes ever as did Duncan. You might need a recap of what Shaq did in the 1999-2000 season and you might need a recap of what Tim Duncan did in the 2002-2003 season.

[spree2kawhi]

Name one player in history more skilled than Kobe Bryant. Based on pure basketball-ability alone it would be even hard for me to rank Kobe below Jordan and I actually like his chances to finish #1.

I seriously challenge everybody here to come up with reasons to still rank Kobe lower than #2.

Kobe < Shaq, Duncan? that's sad...

Not sure how that is sad at all. Those two have still accomplished more than Kobe has. I think you might have missed Duncan and Shaq's peak years if you think it's sad to say they are greater/better than Kobe was. Kobe is my favorite of the three, but if you think it's sad to say Shaq and Duncan were greater. You clearly do not understand what you're talking about.

I could go in more detail, but Shaq had arguably one of the dominant primes ever as did Duncan. You might need a recap of what Shaq did in the 1999-2000 season and you might need a recap of what Tim Duncan did in the 2002-2003 season.

unfortunately for me, I'm not that young anymore, so neither do I need an update on Shaq's or Duncan's accomplishments, but also not on Jordan's or anybody elses. You say those guys had great legacies, sure, and I'm aware of that. But being considered the best basketball player is not only about awards, not only about stats and not only about championships.
Kobe is the most fundamentally sound and complete basketball player I could think of - in history that is. he also is one of the greatest competitors, he has some incredible stats to back up his individual talent. his scoring ability, considering the competition and athletic ability of defenders at his position is unreal and every bit as dominant as shaq's or anybody else's. and don't be fooled, do you really think kobe wouldn't have scored against handchecking defenders? seriously... 5 championships do their talking and considering all of this together kobe clearly outduels every player except Michael Jordan.

None of the guys on any of these lists are bad, so maybe "sad" was really not a fitting expression, but once you really take into account multiple factors you will realize how kobe is better than pretty much everybody except Jordan and he really is closer than many admit.

[dub81]

I love Kobe to death,

but I think he's a tad behind the Bird, Magic, Shaq, Jordan's..

Magic Jordan and Bird revolutionized the game and took it to another level. I don't think Kobe has done that yet. Shaq came into the league and they had to change rules of the game good and bad. (haka Shaq, zone defense)...Please don't bash me Laker fans..Just my opinion.

[DEEP3CL]

I love Kobe to death,

but I think he's a tad behind the Bird, Magic, Shaq, Jordan's..

Magic Jordan and Bird revolutionized the game and took it to another level. I don't think Kobe has done that yet. Shaq came into the league and they had to change rules of the game good and bad. (haka Shaq, zone defense)...Please don't bash me Laker fans..Just my opinion.

Naw I won't bash you but I know that you're a Heat fan , you get a pass.............for now anyway.

[TonyMontana]

I love Kobe to death,

but I think he's a tad behind the Bird, Magic, Shaq, Jordan's..

Magic Jordan and Bird revolutionized the game and took it to another level. I don't think Kobe has done that yet. Shaq came into the league and they had to change rules of the game good and bad. (haka Shaq, zone defense)...Please don't bash me Laker fans..Just my opinion.

Naw I won't bash you but I know that you're a Heat fan , you get a pass.............for now anyway.

I think he's just a troll PERIOD.

[dub81]

How about you guys ask me if I'm a Heat fan??

I will tell you no..Born and raised in Long Beach....Lakers till the day I die...

But whatever....it is what it is...

[Gek]

Is it just me or should we not compare players that were at different positions?

I prefer doing the best breakdown this way:

1. PG
2. SG/SF
3. PF/C


Anyways, Kobe is already on the verge of having the best Career in NBA history, but the best player in the end will still be Micheal Jordan.

[NoDunksAllowed]

unfortunately for me, I'm not that young anymore, so neither do I need an update on Shaq's or Duncan's accomplishments, but also not on Jordan's or anybody elses. You say those guys had great legacies, sure, and I'm aware of that. But being considered the best basketball player is not only about awards, not only about stats and not only about championships.
Kobe is the most fundamentally sound and complete basketball player I could think of - in history that is. he also is one of the greatest competitors, he has some incredible stats to back up his individual talent. his scoring ability, considering the competition and athletic ability of defenders at his position is unreal and every bit as dominant as shaq's or anybody else's. and don't be fooled, do you really think kobe wouldn't have scored against handchecking defenders? seriously... 5 championships do their talking and considering all of this together kobe clearly outduels every player except Michael Jordan.

None of the guys on any of these lists are bad, so maybe "sad" was really not a fitting expression, but once you really take into account multiple factors you will realize how kobe is better than pretty much everybody except Jordan and he really is closer than many admit.

You do realize that Tim Duncan's nickname is "The Big Fundamental" right? I'm not sure who's more fundamentally sound between the two, but you act as if Duncan has no fundamentals what so ever and gets by with being a big, which is totally false.

In my opinion, there is a difference between being the better player and being the greater player. Lebron might be better than Kobe right now, but there is no question who is greater and who always will be greater and that's Kobe Bryant....since Lebron decided to sign with Miami, he will never have a shot to surpass Kobe......ever.

[DEEP3CL]

How about you guys ask me if I'm a Heat fan??

I will tell you no..Born and raised in Long Beach....Lakers till the day I die...

But whatever....it is what it is...

Dude I saw you on the Heat board saying this here......

Fisher is better than Chalmers and Arroyo...Period

It will be a upgrade over them to. Plus we need that Veteran presence on this young team to keep ego's in check..

Yeah you're really a Laker fan huh ? How about excepting the title of bandwagon fan ?

So who bandwagon are you exactly riding on ?

And you can't deny it because here's the topic I spotted you in.....
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1030043&start=1155#p24276667

Oh yeah I also know Iceburg Slim is playing in two jerseys also........I mean I don't get what that bull sh|t is all about, seriously that's second grade crap.

[spree2kawhi]

unfortunately for me, I'm not that young anymore, so neither do I need an update on Shaq's or Duncan's accomplishments, but also not on Jordan's or anybody elses. You say those guys had great legacies, sure, and I'm aware of that. But being considered the best basketball player is not only about awards, not only about stats and not only about championships.
Kobe is the most fundamentally sound and complete basketball player I could think of - in history that is. he also is one of the greatest competitors, he has some incredible stats to back up his individual talent. his scoring ability, considering the competition and athletic ability of defenders at his position is unreal and every bit as dominant as shaq's or anybody else's. and don't be fooled, do you really think kobe wouldn't have scored against handchecking defenders? seriously... 5 championships do their talking and considering all of this together kobe clearly outduels every player except Michael Jordan.

None of the guys on any of these lists are bad, so maybe "sad" was really not a fitting expression, but once you really take into account multiple factors you will realize how kobe is better than pretty much everybody except Jordan and he really is closer than many admit.

You do realize that Tim Duncan's nickname is "The Big Fundamental" right? I'm not sure who's more fundamentally sound between the two, but you act as if Duncan has no fundamentals what so ever and gets by with being a big, which is totally false.

In my opinion, there is a difference between being the better player and being the greater player. Lebron might be better than Kobe right now, but there is no question who is greater and who always will be greater and that's Kobe Bryant....since Lebron decided to sign with Miami, he will never have a shot to surpass Kobe......ever.

I don't act like that at all. You do realize that in no sequence of my previous post I said anything about Duncan not being an absolutely great player right? furthermore, if you asked me, I would tell you Tim Duncan is the best Power Forward to ever take the court. but just because some media guy once started calling him the big fundamental because he has never been overwhelmingly athletic does not mean I have to believe Kobe could not possibly be the more fundamentally sound basketball player. but feel free to believe everything you hear and see in the media..
as for lebron... he's not a more complete basketball player either. just ask michael jordan...

and since I apparently have to be careful here, I will stress now that despite posting videos to strengthen my point I do very well realize that youtube videos don't tell the whole story. I like the videos anyway, here you go, take a close look at the details mate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l053a5oYxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FpzQiERt8I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-gmFcY ... re=related

[Anklebreaker702]

Jordan was on another planet than Magic on defense, that's one thing that keeps Jordan above Bird and Magic. Bird was arguably a better offensive player than Jordan was, but Jordan was on another level defensively. Plus, Magic wasn't the best shooter either.

You must have never seen those guys play.

1. Bird was not a "better" offensive player than Jordan. Jordan was the most prolific scorer of that generation forward.

2. Magic could & did win games in many other ways than just scoring. The man's triple double record will never be touched even with a shortened career.

3. Everyone always talks about his defense wasn't this his defense wasn't that. Name me 5 just 5 players that use to light Magic up at will. He could play any position on the floor & was effective wherever he played.

[Anklebreaker702]

I love Kobe to death,

but I think he's a tad behind the Bird, Magic, Shaq, Jordan's..

Magic Jordan and Bird revolutionized the game and took it to another level. I don't think Kobe has done that yet. Shaq came into the league and they had to change rules of the game good and bad. (haka Shaq, zone defense)...Please don't bash me Laker fans..Just my opinion.

Nothing to bash you about its a fair opinion even if its not agreed upon.

[dub81]

How about you guys ask me if I'm a Heat fan??

I will tell you no..Born and raised in Long Beach....Lakers till the day I die...

But whatever....it is what it is...

Dude I saw you on the Heat board saying this here......

Fisher is better than Chalmers and Arroyo...Period

It will be a upgrade over them to. Plus we need that Veteran presence on this young team to keep ego's in check..

Yeah you're really a Laker fan huh ? How about excepting the title of bandwagon fan ?

So who bandwagon are you exactly riding on ?

And you can't deny it because here's the topic I spotted you in.....
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1030043&start=1155#p24276667

Oh yeah I also know Iceburg Slim is playing in two jerseys also........I mean I don't get what that bull sh|t is all about, seriously that's second grade crap.

It's kind of sad that you are tracking my post around other mod's to prove a point...Why I can't like 2,3,4 teams if I want? It's just basketball my dude..Seriously...But do you and I'ma do me. Still got love for ya and I appreciate your passion 4 the game.

[DEEP3CL]

It's kind of sad that you are tracking my post around other mod's to prove a point...Why I can't like 2,3,4 teams if I want? It's just basketball my dude..Seriously...But do you and I'ma do me. Still got love for ya and I appreciate your passion 4 the game.

My man I don't track post or poster, I just happen to see you on the Heat board and I remembered the post. Bottom line is I could care less on how many damn teams you like, you damn right I'ma do me. You got the right to like how ever many teams you wanna like, I'm just saying it's kinda kiddie to me dawg.

Look my thing was you tried to play it off as if you was just a Laker fan only, but I noticed you on the Heat board and that's when I discovered you liked both.

I got no problem with you dub , it's just like I told all the Heat fans that come here....just show respect. I'm all about talking ball, I don't care about all this other BS that goes on here.

[NoDunksAllowed]

Jordan was on another planet than Magic on defense, that's one thing that keeps Jordan above Bird and Magic. Bird was arguably a better offensive player than Jordan was, but Jordan was on another level defensively. Plus, Magic wasn't the best shooter either.

You must have never seen those guys play.

1. Bird was not a "better" offensive player than Jordan. Jordan was the most prolific scorer of that generation forward.

2. Magic could & did win games in many other ways than just scoring. The man's triple double record will never be touched even with a shortened career.

3. Everyone always talks about his defense wasn't this his defense wasn't that. Name me 5 just 5 players that use to light Magic up at will. He could play any position on the floor & was effective wherever he played.

I know you aren't talking to me, but I gotta respond to what you just said.

Bird was every bit as good at Jordan on the offensive end....he wasn't as stylish but he was every bit as productive and effective. Plus, now factor in that Bird was a better shooter and Bird was also better passer. Not to mention, Bird would usually actually outplay Michael, even during the season where Jordan won the MVP.....Bird still managed to outplay him throughout that season. I could bring up the stats and all that if you would like, but I'm too lazy to do that right now.

I know you guys are Laker fans, but c'mon respect Bird guys.

[dub81]

since I'm only 28 I really did not know Bird's prime like I wanted 2. I saw his decline when I started paying attention..

But pops told me that Bird was SUPER nasty on the offensive and was a trash talker. But in my opinion winning matters the most. and Bird had a little more help than MJ.. (Parish, Mcchale, Ainge, Johnson)
all potential top 50-60 players.

MJ had Pippen and GREAT role players.

Take in point that Bird introduced Magic Johnson into the Hall of Fame..Outta everybody that the great Magic man picked he decided to choose his greatest rival..Something to think about.