Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[nate33]

Let the trades continue:

[MJG]

I really hope we find a way to trade Arenas for expiring contracts.



[Just wanted that to always be the first thing Krizko Zero sees when he clicks on this thread]

[LyricalRico]

[nate33]

If Houston matches the offer for Lowry, and then matches the expected NJ offer for Scola, they will be over the luxtax by $6-8M.

Would they give us Battier for a TPE in order to save $15-18M in salary and luxtax fees?

[dnk]

Moon is a phenominal athlete, but he just isn't good enough to start, imo. He's an energy guy off the bench, and when he's hot with the 3... let him fire away. Otherwise, he's in there just to run the court and play defense.

But you just described exactly what pretty much everyone agrees we need from a starting small forward: defense, three-point shooting, and athleticism. With the added benefit that he is low-usage and does not need (or want, really) the ball in hands, which is ideal for a team that'll start John Wall, Gilbert Arenas, and Andray Blatche. Al Thornton, on the other hand, can be a high-usage, high-energy player off the bench, a role that's very well suited for him and this team.

On the undersized PF issue, Millsap and Maxiell are different because they have freakishly long arms. They're wingspans are much longer than Bookers'. They're also considerably bulkier players. They're in the 250 plus range, so they're equipped to mix it up with bigs; while Booker is about 235. Landry is a legit 6'9 250 lber. Powe's a little bigger/bulkier than Booker, too. Hayes - I can't explain. He's the exception, imo. But I've seen a lot of Booker in college, and when he got his shot blocked by Maryland about 7 times in 1 game, that told me he's not going to make it as a big in the NBA - especially since MD didn't have any real shot-blocker.

I'd argue wingspan is more important for perimeter players, but for bigs, standing reach and, to a lesser extent, vertical are the important measurables. And in terms of standing reach, Booker has a higher standing reach than Millsap and Hayes and one that is one inch shorter than Maxiell's, who is a physical freak. In the no step vertical, Booker tops them all (although Maxiell didn't do it). I'll give you weight (which may, in reality, be the most important), but Powe, the one you specifically said is bigger/bulkier is 6'8", 240. Booker's 6'7", 240.

Wow, I didn't know Landry was 6'9". Interesting.

[nate33]

Code: Select all

Name            Year   Ht.       Wt.   Span      Reach    Fat
Carl Landry     2007   6' 8.5    248   6' 11     8' 6.5   7.5
Jason Maxiell   2005   6' 6.25   258   7' 3.25   8' 11    - 
Paul Millsap    2006   6' 7.25   258   7' 1.5    8' 9.5   9.7
Trevor Booker   2010   6' 7.5    236   6' 9.75   8' 10    7.3

Name            NS Vrt   Mx Vrt   Bnch   Agility   Sprint   Drafted
Carl Landry     31.5     36.5     21     11.35     3.29     31     
Jason Maxiell   -        -        -      -         -        26     
Paul Millsap    28.5     32.5     15     11.67     3.3      47     
Trevor Booker   31       36       22     11.15     3.1      17   

[dnk]

Thanks, nate! I was trying to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. I put the information into Excel and then copied and pasted it into code brackets. But obviously, that didn't work. Tutorial, anyone?

[nate33]

Thanks, nate! I was trying to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. I put the information into Excel and then copied and pasted it into code brackets. But obviously, that didn't work. Tutorial, anyone?

It's hard to explain how I do it on a spreadsheet.

One easy method is to just copy all your data into Notepad and select the Courier New font. Then just add spaces where needed to make all the columns line up. Then copy and paste into your post.

[Severn Hoos]

If Houston matches the offer for Lowry, and then matches the expected NJ offer for Scola, they will be over the luxtax by $6-8M.

Would they give us Battier for a TPE in order to save $15-18M in salary and luxtax fees?

Do you mean use our TPE to get Battier? Didn't think it was big enough?

I assume you mean we absorb him with our cap space (after renouncing the existing TPE), which then creates a TPE for them. Hmmm, I guess I'd like that. We don't really get anything out of it in the long run, but it does give us a more balanced roster and vet leadership for this year. And right now, I value the development that would come with that leadership more than whatever marginal assets we might accumulate with our TPE in a BOYD-like deal.

In other words, I'd rather have Wall & the kids get better by watching and playing with Battier & Hinrich (no, they're not going to trade him) with the prospect of a possible playoff run over a future 2nd rounder/late 1st/whatever. And when you figure that it's likely the TPE goes unused, with so many other teams having even larger TPEs now to bid on the few teams desperate to shed salary, why not?

Heck, I wouldn't even put it past Battier to re-sign after one year: Play with John Wall, in the most competitive division in basketball (replacing the division he'd be leaving), and in the city that is the epicenter for his other interest, politics. Tough to work out the salary cap issues but I like the concept.

[AceDegenerate]

Let's now please discuss this entirely realistic and credible scenario.

The Wizards will be so much better off ridding the team of the Cancer that is John Wall and bringing in a Loyal, Character guy like Haslem.

[Ruzious]

Moon is a phenominal athlete, but he just isn't good enough to start, imo. He's an energy guy off the bench, and when he's hot with the 3... let him fire away. Otherwise, he's in there just to run the court and play defense.

But you just described exactly what pretty much everyone agrees we need from a starting small forward: defense, three-point shooting, and athleticism. With the added benefit that he is low-usage and does not need (or want, really) the ball in hands, which is ideal for a team that'll start John Wall, Gilbert Arenas, and Andray Blatche. Al Thornton, on the other hand, can be a high-usage, high-energy player off the bench, a role that's very well suited for him and this team.

On the undersized PF issue, Millsap and Maxiell are different because they have freakishly long arms. They're wingspans are much longer than Bookers'. They're also considerably bulkier players. They're in the 250 plus range, so they're equipped to mix it up with bigs; while Booker is about 235. Landry is a legit 6'9 250 lber. Powe's a little bigger/bulkier than Booker, too. Hayes - I can't explain. He's the exception, imo. But I've seen a lot of Booker in college, and when he got his shot blocked by Maryland about 7 times in 1 game, that told me he's not going to make it as a big in the NBA - especially since MD didn't have any real shot-blocker.

I'd argue wingspan is more important for perimeter players, but for bigs, standing reach and, to a lesser extent, vertical are the important measurables. And in terms of standing reach, Booker has a higher standing reach than Millsap and Hayes and one that is one inch shorter than Maxiell's, who is a physical freak. In the no step vertical, Booker tops them all (although Maxiell didn't do it). I'll give you weight (which may, in reality, be the most important), but Powe, the one you specifically said is bigger/bulkier is 6'8", 240. Booker's 6'7", 240.

Wow, I didn't know Landry was 6'9". Interesting.

Yeah, I don't disagree with your logic - the standing reach is more important for a big than wingspan, so I give you that. I have to admit to not understanding how Booker's standing reach is about the same as Maxiell's and Booker's. But after seeing him get his shot smacked back in his face so many times, my mind was made up for me. Maybe I'm just stubborn. Nah

On Moon, I'm just not convinced he's skilled enough. As a backup, he can get by without a lot of skills. As a starter, he'd play against starters, and his weaknesses would get exposed. And I would not count on his 3 pointer going in on a consistent basis.

[LyricalRico]

Let's now please discuss this entirely realistic and credible scenario.

The Wizards will be so much better off ridding the team of the Cancer that is John Wall and bringing in a Loyal, Character guy like Haslem.

Nah, it doesn't help our cap.

Seriously, if Haslem was an expiring contract and John Wall was:

- 28+ years old
- making about $20M per for another 4 years
- coming off 3 surgeries on the same knee
- coming off a 50 game suspension for bringing guns to the arena and joking about it
- recently released from a halfway house

...then yes, it would be a reasonable trade.

[Ruzious]

HOF post by Rico.

[dnk]

Yeah, I don't disagree with your logic - the standing reach is more important for a big than wingspan, so I give you that. I have to admit to not understanding how Booker's standing reach is about the same as Maxiell's and Booker's. But after seeing him get his shot smacked back in his face so many times, my mind was made up for me. Maybe I'm just stubborn. Nah

Okay, I'll buy you having watched him and decided more than the wingspan/size argument by itself. I haven't seen him enough to make a judgment on it. I'm just saying, I don't think he's limited to being a 3 solely because of his measurables, mainly because I think some of his other measurables compensate.

I just wanted to defend Booker using what I know, which is basically what Draft Express tells me.

On Moon, I'm just not convinced he's skilled enough. As a backup, he can get by without a lot of skills. As a starter, he'd play against starters, and his weaknesses would get exposed. And I would not count on his 3 pointer going in on a consistent basis.

And I'm just convinced he'd be fine playing with three really talented offensive players. Again, he'd shoot the ball when he's open, pass when he's not. He'd do a little bit of slashing and he'd run the break. And he'd defend and rebound. That's literally all we want from him.

You seem pretty convinced of Al Thornton as the starting small forward. What makes you think he's a better fit with the other four presumed starters?

My argument would be: he's not a very good shooter from distance and he chucks. The opposite of what we need, since our small forward will get a ton of open looks, whether the defense is collapsing on a Wall or Arenas drive or doubling Blatche in the post. Or just doubling or shadowing any one of them. However, I do appreciate his defense and ability to run. So it's not all bad.

I just really hope Thornton doesn't chuck as much when we have Gil and Wall back and Blatche isn't the only other scorer on the floor.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Code: Select all

Name            Year   Ht.       Wt.   Span      Reach    Fat
Carl Landry     2007   6' 8.5    248   6' 11     8' 6.5   7.5
Jason Maxiell   2005   6' 6.25   258   7' 3.25   8' 11    - 
Paul Millsap    2006   6' 7.25   258   7' 1.5    8' 9.5   9.7
Trevor Booker   2010   6' 7.5    236   6' 9.75   8' 10    7.3

Name            NS Vrt   Mx Vrt   Bnch   Agility   Sprint   Drafted
Carl Landry     31.5     36.5     21     11.35     3.29     31     
Jason Maxiell   -        -        -      -         -        26     
Paul Millsap    28.5     32.5     15     11.67     3.3      47     
Trevor Booker   31       36       22     11.15     3.1      17   

Carl Landry and the Kings are going to make the playoffs. Write it down.

Evans, Landry, Cousins, Casspi, Thompson, Dalembert, Whiteside, Udrih, Shawne Williams--what a long, athletic team. They've got scorers inside and out and they will be utterly dominant on the boards.

Landry is a great go-to-guy. Obviously, Evans is a star in the making. I think Cousins has a very good shot at rookie of the year because the Kings can't help but win 45-50 games with this lineup.

What is going to shock the NBA world is Cousins is going to be darned effective at PF.

[Hoopalotta]

The Coonster clarifying the Howard situation for us....

RT @CSL_Duke: can you explain why the Wiz can't S&T Josh Howard until December?

LarryCoon They can S&T him before Dec. The no-trade until Dec

[Hoopalotta]

This is interesting....

On the heels of the greatest free-agent recruiting flurry in NBA history, Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf has just one regret. "I regret the fact that we lost Kirk (Hinrich)," Reinsdorf said in a phone interview. "But if we hadn't moved Kirk, we couldn't have been a player."
.....
"It was clear LeBron wasn't going to come (to the Bulls) by himself," Reinsdorf said. "Somebody else had to come with him so we had to take that shot. It didn't work out, so now I feel bad that Kirk is gone, but I don't regret taking the shot."

Of course he would say that anyway just based on PR, so you don't know how sincere he is.

Here's the link of the Bull's board discussion on Kirk:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1036233&start=0

On the topic of the big catch....

Now a popular topic of debate is whether Miami's power trio was sincere in considering the Bulls. Some suspect those meetings were merely a charade to hide the fact that the players agreed to team up long before free-agency began on July 1.

Reinsdorf felt the intentions of James and Bosh were honest.

"I don't think they would have wasted their time," he said. "I think Wade, in his own mind, was going to go back to Miami unless he heard something that made him change his mind. But I think LeBron and Chris were definitely open-minded.

"I think if we could have cleared space for three of them, we might have gotten them all. We just couldn't clear the space."

More here: http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=394087

I do have the idea that Miami was closer to the precipice of a strikeout than is generally assumed. I wonder what would have happened if we'd have been willing to swallow Eddy Curry into cap space instead of Yi? I think it would have been a lot more comfortable for Bron to go to New York as he'd looks less like a follower and the market would have likely drawn a lot more cash for all three of them.

[verbal8]

This is interesting....

On the heels of the greatest free-agent recruiting flurry in NBA history, Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf has just one regret. "I regret the fact that we lost Kirk (Hinrich)," Reinsdorf said in a phone interview. "But if we hadn't moved Kirk, we couldn't have been a player."
.....
"It was clear LeBron wasn't going to come (to the Bulls) by himself," Reinsdorf said. "Somebody else had to come with him so we had to take that shot. It didn't work out, so now I feel bad that Kirk is gone, but I don't regret taking the shot."

Of course he would say that anyway just based on PR, so you don't know how sincere he is.

Here's the link of the Bull's board discussion on Kirk:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1036233&start=0

On the topic of the big catch....

Now a popular topic of debate is whether Miami's power trio was sincere in considering the Bulls. Some suspect those meetings were merely a charade to hide the fact that the players agreed to team up long before free-agency began on July 1.

Reinsdorf felt the intentions of James and Bosh were honest.

"I don't think they would have wasted their time," he said. "I think Wade, in his own mind, was going to go back to Miami unless he heard something that made him change his mind. But I think LeBron and Chris were definitely open-minded.

"I think if we could have cleared space for three of them, we might have gotten them all. We just couldn't clear the space."

More here: http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=394087

I do have the idea that Miami was closer to the precipice of a strikeout than is generally assumed. I wonder what would have happened if we'd have been willing to swallow Eddy Curry into cap space instead of Yi? I think it would have been a lot more comfortable for Bron to go to New York as he'd looks less like a follower and the market would have likely drawn a lot more cash for all three of them.

The Bulls probably should have made an offer to Toronto of a Noah and Deng for Bosh S&T. That would have left them a similar situation as the Heat, except their one contract is Rose instead of Beasley and Chalmers. I assume they could have sent off James Johnson and Taj Gibson in a package.

However I think what it came down to is that Wade is a leader and Bosh and LeBron really are not. While Wade has a connection to Chicago, I am not 100% sure he really wants to go back there.

I think if the Bulls had landed Bosh and LeBron, either Boozer would have gone to Miami or Wade would have gone to the Mavs.

[Duffy]

Would it be an absolutely terrible idea to trade Arenas to Orlando for Rashard Lewis? Maybe include a swap of Yi for Ryan Anderson to even the salaries out a bit (Couldn't include Yi until 8/29).

ARENAS
$17,730,694; $19,269,308; $20,807,922 (PO); $22,346,536
JIANLIAN
$4,050,499; $5,403,366 (QO)

LEWIS
$20,514,000; $22,152,000; $23,790,000 (NG)
ANDERSON
$1,409,040; $2,244,601 (TO); $3,234,470 (QO)

PG Wall/Hinrich/Randle
SG Young/Martin
SF Lewis/Thornton
PF Blatche/Anderson/Booker
C McGee/Armstrong/Seraphin

[LyricalRico]

Would it be an absolutely terrible idea to trade Arenas to Orlando for Rashard Lewis?

Yes. If we're trading Gil we should either get a comparable player or cap relief. Trading for Lewis gives us neither.