Fantasy Trade Thread

[red96]

What Morey4president said. Brand has the worst contract of all bigmen in the league. I wouldn't have wanted the Rockets to take Brand even with the #2 pick added. He kills any maneuverability a team might have. And him along with Iggy (whose overpaid himself) + the rest of assets and players we lose in philly262's deal makes it franchise suicide.

[philly262]

Why would Indiana give up more bigs for a PG that's arguably in the same mold as Ford? They gain nothing from this trade. I personally might be willing to do it from a Rocket's perspective if you didn't include one of our picks though.

Our board insider has said a deal between the Sixers and Indy had been discussed for Lou for Foster, so I just added that deal to the Rockets deal.

I don't know about the pick though, I don't think most Sixer fans do it without the pick, how about if we give you Indy's 2nd round pick? and a future 2nd round pick from us?

That's two 2nd round picks, which both are most likely going to be in the upper part of the 2nd round?

Well forget the insider than. Think of it from a logic point of view: Why would Bird, a known stubborn man, trade for Williams who isn't even a clear upgrade over Ford?

Also you have to look at your trade from a Rocket's point of view. You're asking us to give up 3 young (yes I consider Ariza young - he's 24) promising talents, an expiring, and a future first rounder most likely in the 9 - 16 range for a fringe all-star that had a down year in a weaker conference.

I know they're young talents, but the Sixers have a bunch of young comparable talent in Young, Speights, Williams and expirings in Kapono/Green, and it's not like you would take those guys if we asked for Kevin Martin now would you? To us your young promising talents are nothing but bench players, with Ariza, who's obviously cheaper, but still HALF the player Iguodala is.

That's why the pick would be involved because Ariza is really just a nice MLE player, and Hill and Budginer are nice young bench players and a MLE player plus a couple bench players, do not equal a fringe all-star player.

[youngcrev]

Saw this proposal on another board... Thad Young for JJ Hickson.

Cavs get a new, young starting SF. Sixers get a young big with an extra year on his rookie contract. Hickson/Speights could be a very good 2nd unit big man combo.

[BringBackKorver]

We don't need any more PF's though...Plus I just don't like Hickson.

[zapatasblood]

Red96 your avatar is amazing.

Philly262 you are overrating the worth of Iggy (who is no longer an allstar and more then likely not play in a allstar game again). Oh yeah the drafting of Turner makes Iggy tradable along with having Yound. Which is why the Sixers are looking for partners. Sure they are not going to get scewed and take nothing in return but they are also not going to get a whole lot in return. Specially prospects, future 1st and expiring contracts. Also why do you want the Rockets rights to swap pick when the Sixers are going to be worse then the Knicks? Is Eddie Jordan and Turner going to be your savior? Jordan has done worse with better teams.

Young, Speights, Williams and expirings in Kapono/Green, and it's not like you would take those guys if we asked for Kevin Martin now would you? Yes I would do it but I would not want Willaims since he would be a complete waste since we have Brooks, Lowry.

[radrmd216]

I would trade Thad for Hickson. We all know Speights has talent, but I question his attitude and mental makeup. After getting Hickson I would see what I could get for Speights or possibly use him with expirings.

Rockets' fans, there are people on this board that will tell you Iggy isn't a franchise player, but treat him like such in trades. Also there are people that say he is overrated. So many people hold extreme views with a lot less people falling in the objective category.

red96, I could see before Iggy being a little overpaid, but I don't think that can be said anymore.

A mod named The Guilty Party on here said last year that Iggy was the 40h highest paid player and is roughly the 40th best player in the NBA. this year he is now about the 50th highest paid player and still around 40th best.

[red96]

red96, I could see before Iggy being a little overpaid, but I don't think that can be said anymore.

A mod named The Guilty Party on here said last year that Iggy was the 40h highest paid player and is roughly the 40th best player in the NBA. this year he is now about the 50th highest paid player and still around 40th best

What 10 players surpassed him in salary? The only players I know that signed bigger deals than Iggy this offseason were Bosh, LBJ, Wade, Gay, JJ, Amare, and Boozer. Most of whom were already paid more and are better players. I want to see that list.

But I agree with you about the number of bad deals given this off-season.

[radrmd216]

Then it was seven players instead of ten. The point was that Iggy was roughly the 40th highest paid player and was roughly the 40th best player in the NBA. Now he has gone down a little in highest salary and still ranks around 40th best.

Most of the league seems to be overpaid, so I guess from that standpoint he is overpaid. From a market value standpoint his contract looks okay.

Gay has talent, but he is inconsistent and doesn't deserve a max contract. If people thought Iggy was pretty overpaid then Gay has to be extremely overpaid.

Also I couldn't find a site with top 50 or 100 player salaries. It would be great if someone could post a pink if they know if one.

[Numb3rs]

I also believe he had a "Reina Value" of +17 last season which means that he deserved 117% of his salary last season.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

That has the top 30. Johnson's, Gay's and RASHARD LEWIS's contracts make Iggy look like a bargain.

[M4P]

That's why the pick would be involved because Ariza is really just a nice MLE player, and Hill and Budginer are nice young bench players and a MLE player plus a couple bench players, do not equal a fringe all-star player.

If you just think of them as bench players why even consider them? If you don't think that they'd be able to contribute, why even bother taking Bud and Hill? I mean, if you think that they would just be role players here in Philly, what's the difference between taking vets off our roster instead of those 2? Wouldn't the vets off our roster prove to be more polished as role players than those two?

Ariza at the MLE and 2 young talents still on their rookie deals is more than enough for a slightly overpaid, turnover-prone player in Iggy.

I also believe he had a "Reina Value" of +17 last season which means that he deserved 117% of his salary last season.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

That has the top 30. Johnson's, Gay's and RASHARD LEWIS's contracts make Iggy look like a bargain.

Just because other GMs were dumb enough to overpay doesn't mean we will. We're not sheep. If Iggy was such a bargain, why is your FO shopping him? Why not give him more time to grow since he hasn't peaked?

Then it was seven players instead of ten. The point was that Iggy was roughly the 40th highest paid player and was roughly the 40th best player in the NBA. Now he has gone down a little in highest salary and still ranks around 40th best.

Most of the league seems to be overpaid, so I guess from that standpoint he is overpaid. From a market value standpoint his contract looks okay.

Gay has talent, but he is inconsistent and doesn't deserve a max contract. If people thought Iggy was pretty overpaid then Gay has to be extremely overpaid.

Also I couldn't find a site with top 50 or 100 player salaries. It would be great if someone could post a pink if they know if one.

That doesn't change the fact that the Rockets would still be paying 4/57M for 18/5/5.

[radrmd216]

Our board insider makes it sounds like the Sixers aren't shopping for Iggy. They are listening to offers though.

If Iggy's trade value isn't that high then maybe a year under Collins could raise it.

I think the Rockets should be one of the teams going pretty hard at Iggy. they have Martin and a top player in Yao if healthy. I don't think the salary is really that much of an issue at all. The issue is more about how much the Rockets have to give up.

[Foshan]

Just because other GMs were dumb enough to overpay doesn't mean we will. We're not sheep. If Iggy was such a bargain, why is your FO shopping him? Why not give him more time to grow since he hasn't peaked?

Actually every indication we have is that we are NOT shopping Iggy and are quite happy to see how Jrue-Turner-Iggy works. The fact that people are calling us about him maybe says that other people think he is a bargain and will still continue to grow... maybe why your team is calling us even?

[HotSauce77]

Doesn't even work under the cap. Would have to be something like Jefferies, Ariza, Hill and Budinger for Iguodala and Green. Not sure it's a great deal for either team.

[philly262]

Ariza at the MLE and 2 young talents still on their rookie deals is more than enough for a slightly overpaid, turnover-prone player in Iggy.

Overpaid compared to whom? Because if you compare Iguodala's salary to some of the players in the league he's not even top 30 in the league, probably not even top 40 in the league right now.

Also Iguodala is not a turnover prone player. Iguodala's Turnover rate is the same as Aaron Brooks, and lower than Kyle Lowry's while having both having a higher Assist rate and a lower usage rate. So that means Iguodala can get more assists while turning the ball over less and not dominating the ball as much as both of your point guards. So to say that Iguodala's turnover prone is just false.

If you just think of them as bench players why even consider them? If you don't think that they'd be able to contribute, why even bother taking Bud and Hill? I mean, if you think that they would just be role players here in Philly, what's the difference between taking vets off our roster instead of those 2? Wouldn't the vets off our roster prove to be more polished as role players than those two?

And the reason why we want your players isn't because of value it's because of fit and size of contract. Ariza fits better because he's an MLE player, and he can do some of the things Iguodala can do, kinda like an Iguodala lite. Hill and Budginer value wise aren't better than the guys we have already in Speights, Louis Williams and Thaddeus Young. Hill just seems like a better fit because he has more hustle and defense in him than Speights does. Speights is more of an offensive jump shooting big man. Budginer is like a taller version of Brent Barry, I would prefer to see Budginer come off the bench at SF or SG, rather than a guy like Meeks or Young, because he has better 3pt range than both, so it would give better spacing to Turner.

And we don't want vets because our team is young, we're not making a championship run anytime soon, so our goal should be to get as many young players and assets as possible and see which ones fit and which ones don't.

I can see why you wouldn't do that trade because you basically clear our your whole bench and one starter for only one starter and a bench player, maybe you would take Speights and that would make the deal better on your part? Or maybe Young, but I doubt other Sixer fans would trade Young away in a deal where we just get guys like Budginer and Hill back.

[Foshan]

^ no way would we need to add assets, have you seen Hill play at all this summer league? Granted its just summer league, but the dude looks totally lost/out of place/position the majority of the time he's on the court.

[HotSauce77]

In fairness, so did Evan Turner, so what does that mean? Hill, when given time at the end of last season, performed okay. He's raw, but has good athletic ability and size and looks like he should develop into a solid defensive and rebounding PF. HIs offensive game will take longer to develop. And by the same logic, have you seen Chase Budinger in the summer league? He looks like an all-star, leading the break, playing defense, driving and dunking on people, hitting 3's. A move like that would clearly be for the future and done for the sake of cap flexibility - Jefferies walks at the end of the year, Hill and Budinger have 3 years on rookie contracts, and Ariza is playing for the MLE and is about the same age as Iggy - given his defensive prowess, he will always be easy to move. In a world of salary caps and luxury taxes, players are not only valued by their performance, but also by the size and tradeability of their contracts.

[philly262]

Yeah I watched Hill and Budginer in the summer league. Hill looks lost out there, he hustles but alot of time he hustles to the wrong spot, and he doesn't seem to know what to do.

Budinger seems to have the range we need, and he's probably not going to be a great starter, but he would be a great bench player to have.

[HotSauce77]

I actually think that Budinger might turn himself into an excellent NBA player. I can see him being a slightly bigger Rex Chapman type player, putting up 16 or so a game while shooting the ball well. Hill is still too raw to be able to judge. He does have potential to do certain things none of our current young bigs appear to be particularly adapt at - playing good defense, hustling, blocking shots, and rebounding. I'm not advocating a move one way or another, but I can see it being something that might give Sixers a better long term fit than Iguodala and more cap flexibility so it's not ridiculous. It might make sense for the Rockets as well because they don't have the luxury of waiting 2-3 years for Budinger and Hill to reach their potentials, while Iguodala is clearly a better player and a better fit for them than Ariza - with a scoring PG who is a good outside shooter, they could use another ball handler and passer who can get the ball into the pain and score by slashing hard to the basket.

[Foshan]

In fairness, so did Evan Turner, so what does that mean?

actually i think there is a big difference. ET is coming off of pretty much sitting out a couple months for the drafting process, and is not only shaking off some rust, but getting use to a whole new tempo and players etc.

I think any of the 2nd yr guys who are struggling BIG time in summer league, Hill for example, are some pretty big red flags. I don't care who they are playing with 2nd yr guys should be separating themselves from rookies. It kinda tells me Hill hasn't been doing much work in the offseason.

[HotSauce77]

JR Smith, a proven NBA player, decided to play in the Summer League and has looked horrible. OJ Mayo is playing and has been abysmal while trying to play PG.

Turner didn't sit out a couple of months - he was working his a$$ off with personal trainers and attending pre-draft workouts - he should have been in better shape than Hill, who hasn't played in the same amount of time as Turner and barely got on the floor his rookie year. Turner has played a whole lot more minutes in the past 6 months than HIll. Plus, Turner was playing with a good NBA PG on his team and with the green light to do whatever he wanted.

I can't even tell you who the PGs on Houston's team are, but they aren't guys who are likely to be playing in the league this year.

I hear you that perhaps it's not fair to compare a rookie to a second year player, but:

Hill put up 13.6 points and 7.8 rebounds in 29 minutes a game, on 55% shooting from the field and 71% from the line. He turned it over too much, and fouled too much, but he wasn't exactly incompetent, especially given that Budinger and Jermaine Taylor took most of the shots.

Has HIll been worse than Speights this summer? I don't think so.

No doubt that he's raw - everyone knew that when he left Arizona. He still doesn't know how to play but he's got NBA talent, defensive, and rebounding ability. It's hard to gage whether he'll be a solid NBA starter, or merely a defensive back up big man, but he's not a bust and he wasn't terrible in the summer league - no worse than Speights, who got a lot more burn and has more years under his belt.