MIN - IND - NOH

[shrink]

I was offering a suggestion to improve another poster's deal, and I thought I'd bring this over:

MIN GIVES: Brewer
MIN GETS: cap space + lottery protected 1st

21.1 IND GIVES: Dunleavey (10.5) + TJ Ford (8.5) + Brandon Rush (2.1) + lottery protected 1st
20.4 IND GETS: Collison (1.4) + Peja (14.2) + Songalia (4.8)

20.4 NOH GIVES: Peja (14.2) + Songalia (4.8) + Collison (1.4)
24.7 NOH GETS: Brewer (3.7) + Brandon Rush (2.1) + Dunleavey (10.5) + TJ Ford (8.5)

NOH gets two young starters in Brewer and Rush, and also doesn't have to use its TPE. TJ Ford serves as an effective 1-year back-up for Chris Paul, and he and Dunleavey are probably more productive than Peja and Songalia in an exchange of expirings. Corey Brewer is a really nice fit for them.

IND gets a great young prospect at their position of greatest need for one. They don't mind swapping the expirings, and moving TJ Ford creates more minutes to develop Collison alongside their youth.

I really don't know how much of a contribution Corey Brewer can really make to this team over the next year. We're bad with him, and we're bad without him. Moving him now, before we need to re-sign him is like the Foye deal last year. The deal adds to our cap space, creates minutes, and gives us a pick next season.

EDITED

[big3_8_19_21]

If the coaching staff is 100% certain that others are better than him (ie Martell Webster), then maybe, but seeing his huge improvement kind of makes me want to see what he is like in the fall.

[younggunsmn]

Sorry, I don't like this one at all for NOH or IND. You are overrating Brewer by alot.

[breatnach]

sorry, but that seems like a blunt attempt at trolling... Brewer, a once 6th pick and in the race for MIP last year is infact not worth cap space and a lottery first. I think most people value him a lot higher. And rightly so

[slinky]

Well shrink, you have managed to overrate and underrate brewer all in the same thread. So the value is probably something in between there.

For me its getting to the point where I want to know what we are going to do with the cap space before giving up quality assets to acquire more of it. And really combining this with the deal for Jefferson, we are gaining a lot of mid-1st picks. Valuable, but probably not what I want in return for Brewer.

[shrink]

I can understand the emotional attachment to Corey Brewer, but we're invested in our other swingmen.

We used the #4 pick on Wes Johnson, and he's on the team for 2-4 more years. He's the most NBA-ready guy out of college, and we need to play him.

We used our next pick and cap space on Martell Webster, and he's on the team for 2-3 more years. We need to play him.

We didn't pay much for Beasley, but if we want to keep Love happy, we need to hope we can play him at SF. He has tremendous upside and we have him for two more years. We need to play him.


So what's left for Brewer? Back-up minutes at SG that saps his enthusiasm as it saps his trade value? I think he deserves more than this, but can we really provide him the best opportunity? This is his last year here unless we give him a new contract.

I'm not thrilled with the return, but for a one-year rental it gets us a little more cap space and a future 1st .. neither of which requires playing time in the 2010-11 season. However, the NBA is about entertainment. If MIN fans want to pay to see Brewer for one more year, backing up players that are our future, then they should keep him.

[Swimmer]

I think the return we get on Brewer is fine. It would be nice if we could get the protection scaled back a little on the pick, to maybe top 10 or top 12. I don't like the deal for NOH, though.

[Saltine]

He is an expiring contract, so we get the capspace anyways. This is really brewer for a non lottery pick. I'd rather have brewer backing up guys for the seaso, he's very useful if anyone gets injured...
However, if we trade him with someone else for something good, I'm down with it
If he was part of a trade for favors or josh smith for instance...

[yojimbo]

looks like pretty fair value to me, and i agree that Brewer is a good fit for NOH. as you spelled out so clearly, we have a real logjam at the 2/3 and he might appreciate going someplace he's going to get more regular minutes.

i am similarly worried about Beasley & Love - they seem to be our 2 most petulant players so it would really help chemistry if they could both start, even if Beasley ultimately spends a lot of time at the 4.

[Saltine]

Also, we are going to pay some serious under the minimum fines if we trade brewer. Assuming we trade sessions, kosta, hollins... We will be over twenty million under, every dollar over 14,511,000 is toast. The rubio cap hold disappears as well... Assuming they keep Greg Stiemsma on the books ($762,195) ;

Currently $8,850,960 below cap (assuming Pek and Luke signed);

Sessions $3,964,320
Brewer $3,703,472
Hollins $2,333,333
Kosta $1,298,640

$20,150,725 Below Cap

Rubio $2,812,200
$22,962,975 below cap to start the season...

Thats only $35,037,069 in committed salary... minimum is $43,533,000

[shrink]

He is an expiring contract, so we get the capspace anyways. This is really brewer for a non lottery pick.

No, its 2010 cap space vs getting financial relief in 2011. Its important to note that if we gain cap space now, it adds to our raw cap space, and perhaps makes it easier for Kahn to use it in trade for a star player. If we wait until 2011, or we get some lesser players, we don't know that losing Brewer will result in cap space -- we may be over the cap next year.

I mentioned this on the Trade Board, but I'm not too concerned about the minimum (75% of the cap). MIN can always find a team over the lux to trade the cap space to for value.

[younggunsmn]

I love the idea of getting value for Brewer, but
Sorry, I just really hate it for NOH.

3 Years of Collison + 3 mil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 year of Brewer.

They are up against the lux and they just welched on a contract for Luther Head because they didn't want to pay him the vet min.

[shrink]

I love the idea of getting value for Brewer, but
Sorry, I just really hate it for NOH.

3 Years of Collison + 3 mil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 year of Brewer.

They are up against the lux and they just welched on a contract for Luther Head because they didn't want to pay him the vet min.

This deal was a major modification of a trade proposed by a Hornets fan. His position was that if Collison is traded, it helps comfort Chris Paul if it can add two young starters. IND fans regretted his inclusion of Brandon Rush, so I tried to add value to the deal without touching Rush. The more I think about it though, Rush seems like a small price for IND to include to get Collison.

I'm going to edit it that way too.

[Saltine]

He is an expiring contract, so we get the capspace anyways. This is really brewer for a non lottery pick.

No, its 2010 cap space vs getting financial relief in 2011. Its important to note that if we gain cap space now, it adds to our raw cap space, and perhaps makes it easier for Kahn to use it in trade for a star player. If we wait until 2011, or we get some lesser players, we don't know that losing Brewer will result in cap space -- we may be over the cap next year.

I mentioned this on the Trade Board, but I'm not too concerned about the minimum (75% of the cap). MIN can always find a team over the lux to trade the cap space to for value.

That is true, plenty of awful contracts out there...

[JasonL]

i dont like giving up brewer for non lottery pick. brewers contract isnt bad and at this point you dont know if webster is better then him. it's not worth it to the wolves at this time to attempt something like this in my opinion.

[lordjeff05]

I was the Hornets fan who posted the original trade. I am fine with the modified trade as well. It seems like there are some really varied views of Brewer's worth. This reminds me alot of past discussions about McCants.

Some have said this is a bad deal for the Hornets, but allow me to argue that this is a good move for us.

Both our needs and our assets would make the most of both Rush and Brewer. On offense, we have a pass first point who would give them easy looks at the basket. He also has great vision and speed on the break which makes the most of their athleticism and again gets them easy looks.

On D, we are short at 3 positions and athletically limited at 2 positions. Our wings would help correct that. Also, they would provide help on ball penetration and protect out offensively talented but defensively limited power forward.

Lastly on value, Collison is our backup. He is really good, but he is our backup Being able to get two starters for a backup is a good deal. Both Sota and Indy have made moves to invest in other wings this summer. Indy used their a 10 pick and a second rounder for SG, and Minny used the 4th, and 16th for wings, not to mention Beasley. That puts pressure on ownership to use those newly aquired assets. That leaves Rush and Brewer out in the cold.