Free Agency '10....It's The Last You'll See This Way

DEEP3CL · Post #1 » by **DEEP3CL** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:25 am

OK, It's been cute while it lasted but this is the last free agency period that'll ever be this loose and recklessly out of control. I know some of these young milk drinkers of the forums love how "it's going down", but I'm going to get salty and bring you the real.

Yes this is a business, the NBA is big business and players pretty much run it. But the owners still control the entity to the fullest. If any of you think for one damn second that pretty much every owner is glad how things are going........you're in for rude awakening from this pipe dream.

Yes they may not be saying anything, but they don't do it to the media anyway unless it's Mark Cuban who the most outspoken anyway. And you guys may think he get's crapped on and punk'd by Stern, but fact is he's one of the most respected owners today. And when he speaks you better be damn sure the rest of the owners listen.

When Cuban said he wanted the league to look at "player collusion", you better believe they will look at it. This whole "player recruit" bull sh*t is getting way way out of hand. The rules placed in the CBA are there for a reason......to protect the integrity of the players welfare and the business aspects of the league.

Pat Riley and Dwayne Wade literally shot the tampering rules AK-47 style and laughed at the rest of the league while they did it. Sure Riley wasn't the bumbling fool McHale was back when they stupidly tried to back door the NBA with Joe Smith's bogus deal, Riley is too damn cunning for that.

With a penalty precedented set, Riley moved as slithery as the snake he is. He sent his mop up boy Wade to do the work, not that he didn't willing want to anyway.

Only the teams in power already could absorb what the Heat did, the message sent to the middle of the pack teams was simple............"you won't win a title if our star can take your star". Just about every player that changed teams tried to "recruit" another free agent which is OK if he's a free agent. But when you hear of players openly saying they talked to other players that were still under contract.........this is tampering, I don't care if it's a player.

Stern was asked about this earlier this year and he just waved it off, but after seeing what he's saw, hearing from execs on what they believe is tampering and circumventing the cap, he boiling inside. And while Cavs owner Dan Gilbert may have taken flak over his comments, don't think for one second that every owner was against him or didn't care how he lost his franchise player.

Micky Arison is a snake owner poisoned by Riley, and Arison's son was very much involved in the "ganking" also. But that doesn't mean the other 29 owners have to stand back and watch this crap go down again.

This is the last time you'll hear, see or read about a player that's a free agent "recruiting" another player. This overrides a teams "first right of refusal" if player A has gotten into player B ear. How did his original team ever have a chance ?

Either way the league will tighten the rules on how a player can be contacted by another player.

Your thoughts ?

LAKERFAN24 · Post #2 » by **LAKERFAN24** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:26 am

DEEP3CL wrote:OK, It's been cute while it lasted but this is the last free agency period that'll ever be this loose and recklessly out of control. I know some of these young milk drinkers of the forums love how "it's going down", but I'm going to get salty and bring you the real.

Yes this is a business, the NBA is big business and players pretty much run it. But the owners still control the entity to the fullest. If any of you think for one damn second that pretty much every owner is glad how things are going........you're in for rude awakening from this pipe dream.

Yes they may not be saying anything, but they don't do it to the media anyway unless it's Mark Cuban who the most outspoken anyway. And you guys may think he get's crapped on and punk'd by Stern, but fact is he's one of the most respected owners today. And when he speaks you better be damn sure the rest of the owners listen.

When Cuban said he wan't the league to look at "player collusion", you better believe they will look at it. This whole "player recruit" bull sh*t is getting way way out of hand. The rules placed in the CBA are their for a reason......to protect the integrity of the players welfare and the business aspects of the league.

Pat Riley and Dwayne Wade literally shot the tampering rules AK-47 style and laughed at the rest of the league while they did it. Sure Riley wasn't the bumbling fool McHale was back when they stupidly tried to back door the NBA with Joe Smith's bogus deal, Riley is too damn cunning for that.

With a penalty precedented set, Riley moved as slithery as the snake he is. He sent his mop up boy Wade to do the work, not that he didn't willing want to anyway.

Only the teams in power already could absorb what the Heat did, the message sent to the middle of the pack team was simple............"you won't win a title if our star can take your star". Just about every player that changed teams tried to "recruit" another free agent which is OK if he's a free agent. But when you hear of player openly saying they talked to other players that were still under contract.........this is tampering, I don't care if it's a player.

Stern was asked about this earlier this year and he just waved it off, but after seeing what he's saw, hearing from execs on what they believe is tampering and circumventing the cap, he boiling inside. And while Cavs owner Dan Gilbert may have taken flak over his comments, don't think for one second that every owner was against him or didn't care how he lost his franchise player.

Micky Arison is a snake owner poisoned by Riley, and Arison's son was very much involved in the "ganking" also. But that doesn't mean the other 29 owners have to stand back and watch this crap go down again.

This is the last time you'll hear, see or read about a player that's a free agent "recruiting" another player. This overrides a teams "first right of refusal" if player A has gotten into player B ear. How did his original team ever have a chance ?

Either way the league will tighten the rules on how a player can be contacted by another player.

Your thoughts ?

NO thoughts , IM drunk

hermes · Post #3 » by **hermes** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:58 pm

it would be too bad if it doesn't happen again (although it shouldn't happen very often or would get OLD really fast)

the only way i would have enjoyed it more is if lebron wasn't at the center of it

ock · Post #4 » by **ock** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:03 pm

DEEP3CL wrote:OK, It's been cute while it lasted but this is the last free agency period that'll ever be this loose and recklessly out of control. I know some of these young milk drinkers of the forums love how "it's going down", but I'm going to get salty and bring you the real.

Yes this is a business, the NBA is big business and players pretty much run it. But the owners still control the entity to the fullest. If any of you think for one damn second that pretty much every owner is glad how things are going........you're in for rude awakening from this pipe dream.

Yes they may not be saying anything, but they don't do it to the media anyway unless it's Mark Cuban who the most outspoken anyway. And you guys may think he get's crapped on and punk'd by Stern, but fact is he's one of the most respected owners today. And when he speaks you better be damn sure the rest of the owners listen.

When Cuban said he wanted the league to look at "player collusion", you better believe they will look at it. This whole "player recruit" bull sh*t is getting way way out of hand. The rules placed in the CBA are their for a reason......to protect the integrity of the players welfare and the business aspects of the league.

Pat Riley and Dwayne Wade literally shot the tampering rules AK-47 style and laughed at the rest of the league while they did it. Sure Riley wasn't the bumbling fool McHale was back when they stupidly tried to back door the NBA with Joe Smith's bogus deal, Riley is too damn cunning for that.

With a penalty precedented set, Riley moved as slithery as the snake he is. He sent his mop up boy Wade to do the work, not that he didn't willing want to anyway.

Only the teams in power already could absorb what the Heat did, the message sent to the middle of the pack teams was simple............"you won't win a title if our star can take your star". Just about every player that changed teams tried to "recruit" another free agent which is OK if he's a free agent. But when you hear of players openly saying they talked to other players that were still under contract.........this is tampering, I don't care if it's a player.

Stern was asked about this earlier this year and he just waved it off, but after seeing what he's saw, hearing from execs on what they believe is tampering and circumventing the cap, he boiling inside. And while Cavs owner Dan Gilbert may have taken flak over his comments, don't think for one second that every owner was against him or didn't care how he lost his franchise player.

Micky Arison is a snake owner poisoned by Riley, and Arison's son was very much involved in the "ganking" also. But that doesn't mean the other 29 owners have to stand back and watch this crap go down again.

This is the last time you'll hear, see or read about a player that's a free agent "recruiting" another player. This overrides a teams "first right of refusal" if player A has gotten into player B ear. How did his original team ever have a chance ?

Either way the league will tighten the rules on how a player can be contacted by another player.

Your thoughts ?

I'm sure the other owners are pissed, but how would one prevent player collusion? You can't regulate their phone conversations or when they hang out. I think the best way to prevent star-stacking is by what's already in place, the salary cap and luxury tax. That way there's a limit to the number of stars, and the filler roster would have to come extremely cheap with players in the twilight of their careers (see BigZ) or back from the grave. (... Penny?!)

Maybe they can adjust the numbers even more so it would something like The Debacle even more unlikely to happen in the future, and make it impossible to sign additional players for anything more than the vet minimum or rookie scale. Because I'm a little boggled that they have the financial room to be able to get M.Miller, BigZ, and Udonis Haslem. I understand that the big 3 took paycuts to make it happen, but their paycuts aren't THAT big. If their salaries were more like $10-12 mill/yr to make it happen, then you have to commend them for their extreme sacrifices for the sake of winning/needing-to-latch-onto-other-established-players-to-win. But NBA players, especially in their prime, are usually too selfish, too oriented in the get-me-my-biggest-possible-contract mentality to make something like that happen.

I'm sure most of the league recognized The Debacle as something more than 3 friends getting together: It's a HUGE concession to Kobe and the Lakers, that they can't hope to dethrone the champs with their own teams, and they need to team up to be true contenders.

Back to my earlier point: you can't truly prevent player collusion. What you CAN do, and what I think the league SHOULD have done, is to fine players who PUBLICLY recruit. Lebron, Bosh and Wade should never have been able to play the media around the way they have. Fine Dan Gilbert for his rant, ok. But they should also have fined Wade for talking crap about the Bulls management (WHILE he was being recruited by the Bulls, what BS) and talking about the players summit, Bosh for tweeting about their meetings, etc.

As crazy as this FA summer was, I think there will be an encore performance in the summer of Paul/D.Will/Carmelo Anthony. That will be the summer of the Knicks.

stunnar0b · Post #5 » by **stunnar0b** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:27 pm

look im upset that the big three came together but at the same times its good for the league and should be very exciting. As far as the free agents and pat riley i have no problem how it went down, obviously there was tampering but theres tampering all the time among players its just since it was james bosh and wade poeple have to make it a big deal. The way i see it is if a team wants to be in contention to go after one or two of these free agents and barely get through the reason for years. then more power to you. its just not so good for the other teams making room, like chicago and new york, although chicago came out of it not too bad. i heard that this type of free agency frenzy and teams clearing up cap space will never happen again, so i'll just enjoy the attention the nba is getting or was getting

DEEP3CL · Post #6 » by **DEEP3CL** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:17 pm

ock wrote:I'm sure the other owners are pissed, but how would one prevent player collusion? You can't regulate their phone conversations or when they hang out. I think the best way to prevent star-stacking is by what's already in place, the salary cap and luxury tax. That way there's a limit to the number of stars, and the filler roster would have to come extremely cheap with players in the twilight of their careers (see BigZ) or back from the grave. (... Penny?!)

Maybe they can adjust the numbers even more so it would something like The Debacle even more unlikely to happen in the future, and make it impossible to sign additional players for anything more than the vet minimum or rookie scale. Because I'm a little boggled that they have the financial room to be able to get M.Miller, BigZ, and Udonis Haslem. I understand that the big 3 took paycuts to make it happen, but their paycuts aren't THAT big. If their salaries were more like $10-12 mill/yr to make it happen, then you have to commend them for their extreme sacrifices for the sake of winning/needing-to-latch-onto-other-established-players-to-win. But NBA players, especially in their prime, are usually too selfish, too oriented in the get-me-my-biggest-possible-contract mentality to make something like that happen.

I'm sure most of the league recognized The Debacle as something more than 3 friends getting together: It's a HUGE concession to Kobe and the Lakers, that they can't hope to dethrone the champs with their own teams, and they need to team up to be true contenders.

Back to my earlier point: you can't truly prevent player collusion. What you CAN do, and what I think the league SHOULD have done, is to fine players who PUBLICLY recruit. Lebron, Bosh and Wade should never have been able to play the media around the way they have. Fine Dan Gilbert for his rant, ok. But they should also have fined Wade for talking crap about the Bulls management (WHILE he was being recruited by the Bulls, what BS) and talking about the players summit, Bosh for tweeting about their meetings, etc.

As crazy as this FA summer was, I think there will be an encore performance in the summer of Paul/D.Will/Carmelo Anthony. That will be the summer of the Knicks.

You bring up some interesting thoughts ock, as far as controlling "player collusion".......trust me it can be done. Yes I do some what agree that it can't be totally erased as far as what players can do on their own time. But ock, I feel in my opinion that the CBA as currently constructed has failed. At least from the stand point of acquiring players.

My biggest gripe was the fact guys openly went after or mention other teams player that we knew were under contract. Amar'e being case number 1 mentioning Carmelo and Tony........these guys are under contract, you can't mention in public that you've talked to them about playing with them period.

I agree they should have been fined, to me this whole thing was a sham an it exposed a big leak in the free agent process. The GM's are being taken out to the game, if a star player can handle the dirty work all the GM's do is set up the paper work and have the team legal counsel look it over.

I bet nobody ever bothered to wonder why Heat GM Randy Pfund left the team ?

He was nothing more than a figure head hired by Riley after his short stint of being the Laker coach ended in disaster. Pfund was close to Riley, hell'va assistant coach but proved he didn't have head coaching ability. Riley pulls the string in Miami and it's obvious Wade is the GM.

I'm not mad at all, I think this adds some new taste to the league. But trust me this is the last time you'll see this again.

dub81 · Post #7 » by **dub81** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:19 pm

Agree with Stunnar....

It is what it is...Players recruit other players all the time...Just let it be and let's roll with it.

LA_All Day · Post #8 » by **LA_All Day** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:38 pm

As a Laker fan im actually pretty excited..while the Celtics get older, we really would have a hard time finding anyone to really compete against for the next 5 years or so..I was getting really tired of seeing finals against teams like Philadelphia and New Jersey when we all new what the outcome would be..This last finals was a real treat and I am looking forward to a few more just like it.

DEEP3CL · Post #9 » by **DEEP3CL** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:18 pm

dub81 wrote:Agree with Stunnar....

It is what it is...Players recruit other players all the time...Just let it be and let's roll with it.

Can't do it publicly, breaks down the integrity of the game. Had LeBron and Bosh never been public with their thoughts, tweets and whatever, when they finally made the decision to sign it would've been a surprise to everybody. But since they were so public with it and seeing and knowing how this all went down, this is why LeBron and the Heat and Heat fans are villain number 1.

It'll be the reason everybody will want to beat them badly.

Gek · Post #10 » by **Gek** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:27 pm

It'll all go away post lock out...

I think the bigger issue is the whole trading a player and then having him waived back to you, I know they tried to fix that, but in order to truely fix it they need to either ban a player from returning to that team that season unless via a trade or require them to return at a salary > or = to the previous they had with the team.

twix2500 · Post #11 » by **twix2500** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:39 pm

I do not see nothing wrong with what went down with James, Wade, and Bosh. The league is suppose to make it fair far all teams to make their team the best, not prevent a team from being the best. Cleveland, Miami, New York and Chicago all had fair chances to make the best out of this summer. Miami just did a better job. All these teams had the same opportunity to clear space to sign all three, all teams had the same opportunity to give their sales pitch. Miami just did a better job, period. Cleveland had seven years to convince Lebron to stay, and so did Toronto with Bosh. If they failed, then its on them not the players. Every team objective its to make the best team they could possible put together, Period. If not then that ruins competition.... What I do like about the NBA its about smarts not money. LA has been the smartest organization in the league for the past 30 years, thats what got them success. NY has been one of the dumbest organization the past 25 years, and they failed this summer rightfully so. For years allt of the analyst didnt think Miami would be capable and were wrong. Just because they were wrong doesnt mean something wrong with the system.

Gek · Post #12 » by **Gek** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:43 pm

My on topic opinion - it doesn't matter after the moratorium ends IMO. The whole shady giving jobs to friends is what needs to be nipped in the ass.

twix2500 · Post #13 » by **twix2500** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:49 pm

G=K wrote:My on topic opinion - it doesn't matter after the moratorium ends IMO. The whole shady giving jobs to friends is what needs to be nipped in the ass.

Its business... That happens in every business around the world. If its helping the organization and all teams have the same equal opportunity then whats the problem? You can't stop something just because you dont like it or it rubs you the wrong way. The lakers got over with the Gasol trade, that Memphis fault no one else. Hell how many trades end up being equal on both sides.

DEEP3CL · Post #14 » by **DEEP3CL** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:10 pm

Look twix2500, you bring a credible argument to the table. The problem is while Stern says there was no tampering it's clearly obvious Riley and Wade shot holes through the tampering rules. Look again I'm giving the credit to the Heat for getting the guys, sales pitch or not the Heat used an advantage no other team had. Wade was friends with James........no way to cut around that.

The problem is "player collusion", it has to be fixed or this type of scenario will continue to rip teams of it's stars if they're friends with somebody on another team.

Bottom line is this Cleveland, New York, New Jersey or Chicago NEVER had a chance to land any of those guys.......you'd be lying if you actually though they did. Ground work laid in place 2 years ago can't be busted up in 30 days period.

Also I agree with G=K on the whole waive a player and bring them back in 30 days garbage.

magic1fan · Post #15 » by **magic1fan** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:11 pm

good stuff as always deep,you always know how to break it down like no other. with that being said i am pretty excited. to me all this says is we are the most feared franchise in the league. people say these guys are young but they are not stupid. wade will soon be 29,and though lebron is 25 i think he has logged more minutes than anyother 25 year old in league history,bosh has logged alot also. they look to the west and see kobe hasn't really slowed down that much as far as production,kobe has made pau a top two or three big in the game. we have a 22 year old 7 footer in drew who if he can stay healthy could be an all star one day. they know the chances of them defeating this team in a seven game series on their own is slim to none,so the best free agents in the league had to get together. it does make them look weak in a way but hey i say bring it on. you know kobe,fish,pau,odom,phil and ron are probably talking about it everyday as they work out and try to add something else to their game.

CX44 · Post #16 » by **CX44** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:32 pm

Nice read DEEP but I'm not sure the NBA can do anthing about it. The players are not prevented from talking even while under contract to another team. If the NBA tried to regule it the ACLU would sue under the First Amendment freedom of speech. Once a player becomes a free agent he is free to talk to anyone or any team. I agree with you that Wade recruited these players, most likely under the direction of Riley but unless Wade, Riley, or someone else were to come forward the NBA is powerless to do anything about it.

dub81 · Post #17 » by **dub81** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:51 pm

We just gotta give Miami props for getting these guys and getting them pretty cheap...

We cleared space to get Shaq by moving Lynch and Peeler. Traded a top 10 center in Vlade also..

We had our team and we got 3 rings because of it.

Don't worry it will come back in full circle again and it's going to be the Lakers time again.

animal1974 · Post #18 » by **animal1974** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:04 pm

My opinion is that every player has to make his own decision about how he wants to make his career.
Grandness isn't for everyone I guess.
You could not stop a player for act like a b*tch. It may be another player recruiting or just his representatives (see Ariza's case).

It is a business, right, but in the end all is about basketball. Big names could make a good team, but not always a champion... and if that thing on Miami do not end with a championship U would care about the rest?
Looks like the Heat had all his money on the next season.
Vince Carter and his quest for a search on a ring comes to my mind when I think about LeBron specifically. Im so damn sure LeBron is thinking about his contract after his second ring with the Heat or so... He ain't win a ****, and he maybe never do.

Back to the players recruiting players I think is one of the dumbest and possibly scariest things a team could do. That way most probably you will end up with a bunch of well paid mercenaries.
Agree with DEEP3CL that all this madness will end up with (even more) inflated salaries for a washed veteran and youngsters moving faster to new teams.
I think is bad for the league.

twix2500 · Post #19 » by **twix2500** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:13 pm

DEEP3CL wrote:Look twix2500, you bring a credible argument to the table. The problem is while Stern says there was no tampering it's clearly obvious Riley and Wade shot holes through the tampering rules. Look again I'm giving the credit to the Heat for getting the guys, sales pitch or not the Heat used an advantage no other team had. Wade was friends with James........no way to cut around that.

The problem is "player collusion", it has to be fixed or this type of scenario will continue to rip teams of it's stars if they're friends with somebody on another team.

Bottom line is this Cleveland, New York, New Jersey or Chicago NEVER had a chance to land any of those guys.......you'd be lying if you actually though they did. Ground work laid in place 2 years ago can't be busted up in 30 days period.

Also I agree with G=K on the whole waive a player and bring them back in 30 days garbage.

I see nothing wrong with player collusion. When you apply for a job most companies pay employees for referring future employees! Wade really loved playing for the Miami Heat so yeah he sold the idea of coming to the Heat. So why didnt Lebron sell the idea of players coming to the Cavs or Bosh selling players on coming to the Raptors? Its the same thing when a player demands to be traded to certain teams. Where do you think players get their refrences from, other players of course. What is so negative about this? If an employee loves working somewhere he should have every right to share that info. As long as its an even playing field and not money being passed back and forth to influence ideas. But info is being passed because of rep alone. Stop calling it sneaky but its good business practice.

Cleveland, NY and other had the same chances. They just didnt execute it as well period. Bulls had management throwing punches at each other and gave Deng a horrible contract, Cavs fired their entire management and failed to get Lebron a championship team. NY has been a failure for years!!!!! Miami has a solid foundation, history and a plan, and thats what sold these players.

Anklebreaker702 · Post #20 » by **Anklebreaker702** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:29 pm

DEEP the thing about though is we are the key. If they can't come up with a title over the 1at 3 years I think all 3 will opt out. If that happens then this probably wont ever be tried again. No one will ever want to be associated with an epic fail like this ever again.