The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 61)

[Kobblehead]

In coming up with these various Iggy trade scenarios, I hope this board is keeping in mind the fact he's grossly overpaid with a contract that could prove particularly crippling under the next CBA. Ariza, on the other hand, is a relative bargain at MLE money, so you can forgot about getting him back from the Rockets. Honestly, Philly would be lucky to get a salary dump offer for Iggy, maybe a future 1st rounder included, and the team would be crazy not to jump at that kind of offer. Sorry to bring reality to this board, but the discussions here on what Iggy could get back are absolulely absurd. Let's put it this way - Isaiah Thomas as the Rockets GM wouldn't trade a package including Ariza and Hill for Iggy, let alone one of the shrewdist GMs in the league, Morey.

Let me guess, you're no longer a fake member of the Cavs press. You moved to Houston and are now a fake member of the Rockets press? Why are you obsessing over this board?

[vandy0925]

LOL. My missed trade call on the Cavs aside, I'd like to hear anyone on here argue my analysis of the Iggy situation. The choice is simple - stick with Iggy and see how it works with Turner, or trade him in primarily a salary dump deal. Iggy is nice third banana but he's paid like a first.

[Kobblehead]

Have you been paying attention to free agency? Iguodala's contract is reasonable in comparance.

But yeah, Vandy, why are you still discussing Iguodala on here? I don't understand the reasoning for your presence.

[SouthJersey]

Brian Chapman-would other Houston fans agree with your trade proposal? I actually like it and its fair value, but I would think some Houston fans think that would be too much. I'm hearing Patterson is off limits.

The sixers would need a SF that can start for a bit and Houston needs to upgrade their starting SF, Ariza makes the most sense. Budinger is a better Kapono but trading for him leaves a major void in the sixers lineup.

[corwin]

You think the difference of 15 wins in a tougher conference is all RIck>Eddie? I understand that he seemed like he didn't know what to do with rotations and which players to play but it's not like Jordan didn't have multiple 40+ win seasons with Wiz prior to bringing his services to Philly.

Ofcourse there are many other factors involved in wins/losses. But the simplest way to look at it is this: More wins = better team. Better team = better players + chemistry + coach + etc. Therefore, all the teams that have poor records should really reflect on their players and wonder if they are overestimating their worth.

You're touching a sensitive nerve on our board with this one. You realize that Philly was 40-42 & 41-41 the two seasons before Jordan was brought aboard & in the playoffs both season. Basically the same team & no injuries were here last year. Those of who watched the games are giving Jordan the credit for the terrible season & he deserves it. No spin about his winning in Washington cuts it on this board.

[PhillyRocks1]

LOL. My missed trade call on the Cavs aside, I'd like to hear anyone on here argue my analysis of the Iggy situation. The choice is simple - stick with Iggy and see how it works with Turner, or trade him in primarily a salary dump deal. Iggy is nice third banana but he's paid like a first.

Iggy is hardly paid like a first.

[PhillyRocks1]

You think the difference of 15 wins in a tougher conference is all RIck>Eddie? I understand that he seemed like he didn't know what to do with rotations and which players to play but it's not like Jordan didn't have multiple 40+ win seasons with Wiz prior to bringing his services to Philly.

Ofcourse there are many other factors involved in wins/losses. But the simplest way to look at it is this: More wins = better team. Better team = better players + chemistry + coach + etc. Therefore, all the teams that have poor records should really reflect on their players and wonder if they are overestimating their worth.

You're touching a sensitive nerve on our board with this one. You realize that Philly was 40-42 & 41-41 the two seasons before Jordan was brought aboard & in the playoffs both season. Basically the same team & no injuries were here last year. Those of who watched the games are giving Jordan the credit for the terrible season & he deserves it. No spin about his winning in Washington cuts it on this board.

They didn't have Andre Miller this past year.

[Sandalf42]

You think the difference of 15 wins in a tougher conference is all RIck>Eddie? I understand that he seemed like he didn't know what to do with rotations and which players to play but it's not like Jordan didn't have multiple 40+ win seasons with Wiz prior to bringing his services to Philly.

Ofcourse there are many other factors involved in wins/losses. But the simplest way to look at it is this: More wins = better team. Better team = better players + chemistry + coach + etc. Therefore, all the teams that have poor records should really reflect on their players and wonder if they are overestimating their worth.

You're touching a sensitive nerve on our board with this one. You realize that Philly was 40-42 & 41-41 the two seasons before Jordan was brought aboard & in the playoffs both season. Basically the same team & no injuries were here last year. Those of who watched the games are giving Jordan the credit for the terrible season & he deserves it. No spin about his winning in Washington cuts it on this board.

They didn't have Andre Miller this past year.

Yea, I think that was more the difference than anything. Miller did a LOT for this team when we made the playoffs. He was the guy who knew how to win, and set up the team so we, on some nights, stood a chance. His leaving, compounded with Eddie Jordan taking over ended our season before it began.

[Bring Back 1983]

Don't get me wrong - the way E. Jordan gave up on this team was one of the most disgusting coaching jobs I have ever seen. But you would think he was the reason the hot dogs were cold at the Wachovia Center given how he is blamed for everything. The loss of MIller (w/o any reliable replacement) cost at least a half-dozen games. Arguably we should have been better than the two prior years last year if our young guys had developed.

I think a couple of these Houston fans have some valid points on Iggy. I really think that so many of us wanted him to blossom (at least I did) outside of Iverson's shadow that we may be giving him a little more value than he has. He's a non-All Star for a reason. And with each passing day, I think more and more than he is a poor fit with ET who clearly is going to be our centerpiece in the future. In fact I want ET to have every opportunity to show his skills, including playmaking, and if that means getting a better fit with a less talented 3, but with some other value such as future cap space, developmental big and/or a future pick of the Knicks, Eddie the Shot has to consider the offer.

[corwin]

They didn't have Andre Miller this past year.

I realize that. They also didn't have EFJ the year before.

[ojr107]

Did losing Miller hurt us? I agree that it did, but our biggest problem last year was our defense went from being slightly above average to being absolutely terrible, maybe the worst in the league. That doesn't have anything to do with Miller leaving, cause he was a terrible defender.

Yes, Ariza is a cheaper then Iggy, but what are we going to do with the money we save? I don't think we will be in a position to sign a major free agent if we swap Ariza/expiring for Iggy.

The only way I do the trade is if its Ariza+New York number 1. Its be risky from our side(from both sides, actually), but the pay off could be big, and when your mired in mediocrity, you need to take some chances.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

"PhillyFan"
First, I don't mind Ariza's game at all and think he's a decent player.

But your argument here is quite flawed.

How is it flawed? I'm not debating anything there. These are total facts. Are you saying he didn't make 66 threes as a Laker? Are you saying he didn't make more last year?

Yes, he made 136 threes last year as a Rocket, but he also took 407 attempts (compared to 191 he took the year before with the Lakers). FG attempts was 999, compared to 596 while he was with Lakers. When you take these into account, his shooting % actually dropped last year with the Rockets. Of course, before Kevin Martin was brought to the team, Ariza was used as their #1 scoring option and these stats can be attributed to this.

His three point percentage didn't drop and that is what I was talking about.

[BringBackKorver]

I'm not a huge fan of the "Ariza is a better 3 point shooter than Iguodala" argument in general. I mean, people here talk about Iguodala chucking up way too many threes, do you really want Ariza coming in hoisting up 2 more threes per game and only shooting 2% better?

He's also shown he's not efficient when asked to be more than the 4th option on offense, and this team isn't good enough to get anything long term with a guy like Ariza unless we get a legitimate big man at some point.

[cheolee]

What kind of player do you think will fit next to Turner and Jrue?

imho, I would think that the player ideally:

-play well off the ball
-a good catch and shoot guy with a strong 3point shot
-young and on a rookie contract
-athletic and has the physical tools to be a good defender
-high bball IQ
-has enough potential to expand his game
-good character and work ethic


If these are the qualities that the PHI is looking for in their future SF, I think Chase Budinger is a better fit than Ariza.

[PhillyFan]

"PhillyFan"
First, I don't mind Ariza's game at all and think he's a decent player.

But your argument here is quite flawed.

How is it flawed? I'm not debating anything there. These are total facts. Are you saying he didn't make 66 threes as a Laker? Are you saying he didn't make more last year?

Yes, he made 136 threes last year as a Rocket, but he also took 407 attempts (compared to 191 he took the year before with the Lakers). FG attempts was 999, compared to 596 while he was with Lakers. When you take these into account, his shooting % actually dropped last year with the Rockets. Of course, before Kevin Martin was brought to the team, Ariza was used as their #1 scoring option and these stats can be attributed to this.

His three point percentage didn't drop and that is what I was talking about.

136/407 isn't a great percentage last time I checked.

If you like Ariza, so be it. I can't argue against someone's love for a player (just like Dedicated's love for Thad Young). But for me, Ariza is not an efficient player on the court.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

I'd be fine with Budinger as well. In fact i'd rather have Budinger than Ariza in the deal. I do think Ariza is the better defender though.

[cheolee]

Ariza is definitely a better defender because his combination of length and athleticism at his position is elite. However, Chase was a rookie last year and it is typical for 1st year players to have growing pains on defense. With the touch-fouls that are being called in the league these days, I would argue that perimeter defense is overrated. The Rox had Battier, Jeffries, Ariza, Lowry, and Hayes who are all considered premier defenders, but without the big clog in the middle (Yao), their defense was very porous.
My point is that great individual perimeter defense is not as important as some people think, and a shot altering big can usually compensate for that if need be.

[Kobblehead]

The Rockets also had Aaron Brooks who gives up more penatration than a 2 cent hooker. Make no mistake about it, defending the perimeter begins and ends with guarding the rock.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Off topic a bit I think Houston is going to be pretty good next year with Yao MIng back in the lineup. They have very good defenders on that team, they can shoot, Yao is going to be healthy, Patterson looks like a contributor, they have good role players, A few potential all stars,.........
AND OF COURSE TREVOR ARIZA!

[FreesFro]

It's been awhile, we need a new update from SF76.