Wall named Summer League M.O.P.

[DCsOwn]

Wall named SL's 'Most Outstanding Player.' Not that it's that big of a deal, but hopefully it is the first of many honors that he collects as a Wiz.

Also, somewhat interesting is the fact that Demarcus Cousins won Rookie of the Month honors (in this context, it's basically a SL rookie of the week award) and not Wall I believe. It's very similar to the situation after their college seasons where Wall won S.E.C. player of the year honors, but Cousins won S.E.C. freshman of the year.

[hands11]

Better than not winning it.

Just like the 4-0 record with him playing, it's something. I thought I was heard he made the most FTs or something. Something like 10 attempts a game.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wall led SL in scoring and in assists.

A lot of comparisons have been made between Wall and Wade, Wall and Derrick Rose, and even Wall and Gary Payton. Those all apply IMO. I will throw one more out there.

The last player to lead the league in both scoring and assists was Nate Archibald. Wall's much bigger, much better defensively, and more athletic than Tiny Archibald; but he has similar ability as both a scorer and a set up player.

When Wall develops his midrange and gets a floater shot, he will become a legit candidate to lead the league in both assists and scoring, Like Archibald did some 30 years ago.

[Higga]

Not a surprise. He'll win ROTY easily too.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Also, somewhat interesting is the fact that Demarcus Cousins won Rookie of the Month honors (in this context, it's basically a SL rookie of the week award) and not Wall I believe. It's very similar to the situation after their college seasons where Wall won S.E.C. player of the year honors, but Cousins won S.E.C. freshman of the year.

Yep, DCsOwn, they both showed their strong NCAA play was no fluke.

Day 10 from Las Vegas: Final thoughts

John Wall was named the Most Outstanding Player of the Las Vegas Summer League and DeMarcus Cousins was named T-Mobile Rookie of the Month for his performance, but they weren't the only ones impressing in Las Vegas.

http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/#ranking4

[hands11]

Wall led SL in scoring and in assists.

A lot of comparisons have between Wall and Wade, Wall and Derrick Rose, and even Wall and Gary Payton. Those all apply IMO. I will throw one more out there.

The last player to lead the league in both scoring and assists was Nate Archibald. Wall's much bigger, much better defensively, and more athletic than Tiny Archibald; but he has similar ability as both a scorer and a set up player.

When Wall develops his midrange and gets a floater shot, he will become a legit candidate to lead the league in both assists and scoring, Like Archibald did some 30 years ago.

Just curious. How did his team do that year. For some reason, that doesn't sound like a winning combo.

[Hoopalotta]

When Wall develops his midrange and gets a floater shot, he will become a legit candidate to lead the league in both assists and scoring, Like Archibald did some 30 years ago.

Just curious. How did his team do that year. For some reason, that doesn't sound like a winning combo.

Looks like it was 1972-73....

36-46, Finished 4th in NBA Midwest Division......Pythagorean W-L: 33-49 (13th of 17)

No playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/KCO/1973.html

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm not saying the two Kentucky teammates are in the same caliber, but the post above (Wall and Cousins rookie honors) reminds me of two players that were rival greats coming out of college and throughout their rookie season and beyond.

Way back in the day, Larry Bird won Rookie of the Year, but Magic Johnson won the NBA Championship and NBA Finals MVP that same season. The year before was a mirror image in college. Bird won the college player of the year, but Magic's team beat Bird's for the NCAA crown, and Magic was the Final Four MVP.

Bird over his career ended up with 3 NBA MVPs, 2 Finals MVPs, and 3 NBA Championships. Magic end up with 3 NBA MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, and 5 NBA Championships. Really nice results for both players.

I expect Wall and Cousins both will win honors of their own. One of them should win rookie of the year, (but watch out for Dominique Jones, Greg Monroe, Larry Sanders, and Ed Davis if any of them get starters' minutes. I like Jones a whole lot for Dallas.) I believe Cousins has a great team around him in Sacramento, and I think Wall and the Wizards will be far better than expected this season.

[Benjammin]

Wall led SL in scoring and in assists.

A lot of comparisons have between Wall and Wade, Wall and Derrick Rose, and even Wall and Gary Payton. Those all apply IMO. I will throw one more out there.

The last player to lead the league in both scoring and assists was Nate Archibald. Wall's much bigger, much better defensively, and more athletic than Tiny Archibald; but he has similar ability as both a scorer and a set up player.

When Wall develops his midrange and gets a floater shot, he will become a legit candidate to lead the league in both assists and scoring, Like Archibald did some 30 years ago.

Just curious. How did his team do that year. For some reason, that doesn't sound like a winning combo.

It was in 1972-1973 for the Kansas City Kings. Their record was 36-46. Looking at their roster it looks pretty bad. Tiny averaged 34 points, 11.4 assists in 46 minutes a game; it was his third season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

When Wall develops his midrange and gets a floater shot, he will become a legit candidate to lead the league in both assists and scoring, Like Archibald did some 30 years ago.

Just curious. How did his team do that year. For some reason, that doesn't sound like a winning combo.

Looks like it was 1972-73....

36-46, Finished 4th in NBA Midwest Division......Pythagorean W-L: 33-49 (13th of 17)

No playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/KCO/1973.html

No wonder I can't even remember it--happened 37 years ago, not 30. I just knew about it as a fan. As for that KC team's lack of success, I wouldn't attribute it to Archibald.

Looking at the team stats, the team was outshot (.484 to .478), outscored (110.5 points allowed to 107.6 points scored), outrebounded (3961 to 3628 -- that's like a minus 4 rebounds per game), and they gave up a point at the FT line each game. In short, Nate Archibald played on a bad team. I remember Sam Lacey was later pretty decent, but none of those other guy's names ring a bell. The Van Arsdale twin was okay. Matt Guokas was later a coach and a tv analyst. He had success on a Philly team that had Wilt and Billy Cunningham (again, not from memory but from reading about it). But he and the others weren't a strong team.

John Wall's defense is so much better than Archibald's that he's going to pressure other PGs at both ends. John Wall has guys who are over 7 feet tall in McGee and Yi, who should score a ton on lobs. So should speedy Booker. Wall has Arenas (if the Wizards don't foolishly give him up for beans). Wall has Young (good defender and a pure shooter). Wall has Blatche, a big man with all around game and great passing skills.

Wall isn't going to lead the league in scoring (at least not for a few years) but he's got way, way, way better talent around him than Archibald did.

I am not worried about the comparison as a scorer and set up man standpoint. Deron Williams scores a ton and assists a ton, and his teams are good. So will Wall's Wizards be good.

It's just a matter of time.

Footnote: I do remember an older Nate Archibald running PG for NBA Champion Boston Celtics, in the 80s.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It was in 1972-1973 for the Kansas City Kings. Their record was 36-46. Looking at their roster it looks pretty bad. Tiny averaged 34 points, 11.4 assists in 46 minutes a game; it was his third season.

Man, I love people who just get to the point. Right, Ben. What I was trying to say before the rant.

[Hoopalotta]

In short, Nate Archibald played on a bad team.

I don't know, we don't want to sleep on Don Kojis.

Ideally though, Tiny's usage rate would be down with the team being better, so we get a certain chicken and egg dynamic to that sort of player stat tally.

Somehow, I have the idea in my head that Wall's base stats hovering somewhere around the 20 and 10 range during his career with high efficiency means that we're winning a lot of games and his getting up into epic base numbers means we might not be where we'd like to be in the standings.

[hands11]

That's what I was getting at. I don't believe Wall will lead the league in point nor do I really want him to at PG. Assist - yes. Free throw attempts - maybe. As long as it works in a team concept.

I totally agree with the analysis that he has talent around him. Some is young and unproven. Some needs an image translate. And we still need to see Seraphin or something as a defensive center, but I like the way things are looking with us keeping Gil.

This team is athletic. We added some defensive minded players. And we have scorers. And we have a good front office. I'm just holding out hope that we keep Gil and Seraphin signs and start practicing. Im hoping Dray is on schedule to be healthy and ready to practice sooner rather than later. And I hope we fill in the right remaining pieces.

I have faith in Ted so I'm hoping he sees that keeping Gil is the right move. Even EG never really burn the bridge. He always said Gil was a Wizard and that he was signed. Hopefully Ted can step in and smooth out that situation in case Gil hasn't figured out that he left the team really no other choice so he shouldn't hold anything against EG. Hell, it was Stern who stepped in and called a stop to everything. And I'm pulling for Ted to get Seraphin signed also.

If all that happens, I see an exciting team that makes the playoffs. Wall gets his first taste of post season in his first year. Winning breeds winning. We than come back next year with way more answers than questions. Nick may even work out as a back up SG. Putting together the puzzle from there should be a lot easier. Maybe Kirk even stays to signs cheaper. I like the depth at PG with Wall and Kirk.

Hmmm, just wondering. Sure this would be a dream world kind of thing but what the heck...
Gil comes back and rehabs his image. He and Wall are balling with Dray and others. 2012 Gil has a player option. He is a happier than he has even been. He is a star on a winning team and wants it to keep rolling. He signs a new contact with the Wiz to something that makes more sense and extends for a few years... maybe even a declining contract. Part of the deal is the difference in what he is leaving on the table has to go to some charity ( back room deal in case that isn't legal ). Hey, it's my dream. Anything can happen.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In short, Nate Archibald played on a bad team.

I don't know, we don't want to sleep on Don Kojis.

You bet' not sleep on Don Kojis...

If Don Kojis is your accountant and you cross him, he'll jack your books up.
If Don Kojis is your chiropractor and you talk smack, he'll crack your back.
If Don Kojis is your professor, drop the course. You cannot attain his knowledge. You will fail.

Don't sleep on Don Kojis. He's is badder than Don Corleone.

You know that guy on the Dos Equis commercial? The "World's Most Interesting Man". I saw Don Kojis just walk up and slap him in the face. Don't ever try to borrow or steal Don Kojis' swagger. After the beatdown, I heard him say to that Dos Equis guy, "Now go tell everyone how interesting it is to get slapped by Don Kojis, bitch."

And as for Chuck Norris... All Chuck Norris jokes are really code for "Don Kojis kicked Chuck Norris' ass, too."

(If that was too over-the-top: Don Kojis sounds like anything but a guy you want on your basketball team).

[B-easy]

I'd rather have wall be more of a D-wade than D-will/Chris Paul.

[montestewart]

Wall led SL in scoring and in assists.

A lot of comparisons have between Wall and Wade, Wall and Derrick Rose, and even Wall and Gary Payton. Those all apply IMO. I will throw one more out there.

The last player to lead the league in both scoring and assists was Nate Archibald. Wall's much bigger, much better defensively, and more athletic than Tiny Archibald; but he has similar ability as both a scorer and a set up player.

When Wall develops his midrange and gets a floater shot, he will become a legit candidate to lead the league in both assists and scoring, Like Archibald did some 30 years ago.

Just curious. How did his team do that year. For some reason, that doesn't sound like a winning combo.

You might be right, but the numbers are not so different from Oscar Robertson's numbers. Archibald replaced Robertson on the Royals when Robertson was traded to the Bucks (where he finally won a championship with Kareem). Robertson was a much better rebounder and defender than Tiny, but the Royals were going nowhere even with one of the greatest PGs ever (averaged a triple double over the course of his first five seasons). Other than Robertson, and Archibald after Robertson, the Royals were generally not that good, and soon became the Kings and migrated west like pioneers that overslept.

And don't y'all go knocking Don Kojis. He was part of the big Rod Thorn for Bob Ferry trade in '64. Turned the Bullets right around.

[Hoopalotta]

And don't y'all go knocking Don Kojis. He was part of the big Rod Thorn for Bob Ferry trade in '64. Turned the Bullets right around.

Going back to CCJ's post, I think I'm going to have to work some random Kojis references in at key points in the season ("Kojis would have got that board", that sort of thing).

As to the question of Wall going D-Will/Paul or Wade, obviously he'll do whatever he's gonna do, but I would note that I have some concerns if he takes the kind of physical punishment that Wade has absorbed over the years. Obviously it's quite effective, but the other two guys don't get knocked around nearly as much - I'd be pleased if he worked out to be more pointy just on that account alone.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't think Wall can get the rebounds Wade can. John Wall isn't nearly as explosive at the rim as Wade. Dwyane Wade is a finisher at the rim. He is an MVP candidate because he's able to beat teams himself.

I think Chris Paul had an MVP-type year already. He can win it all with better teammates.

So can Deron Williams.

I have been a Wall hater and was wrong in being one. He's really good and will very likely be worthy of being mentioned in their company in the future.

[Hoopalotta]

Wade's MUCH physically stronger than Wall, so that goes to the finishing issue.

I have no idea if Wall's going to fill out or stay like he is now, but I agree he's not that sort of finisher as of now in the halfcourt and it would probably be kind of dangerous if he were to try.

I really like Deron's game from a durability standpoint as I think he finds a nice balance with attacking but not getting regularly killed by hard fouls.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Just curious. How did his team do that year. For some reason, that doesn't sound like a winning combo.

You might be right, but the numbers are not so different from Oscar Robertson's numbers. Archibald replaced Robertson on the Royals when Robertson was traded to the Bucks (where he finally won a championship with Kareem). Robertson was a much better rebounder and defender than Tiny, but the Royals were going nowhere even with one of the greatest PGs ever (averaged a triple double over the course of his first five seasons). Other than Robertson, and Archibald after Robertson, the Royals were generally not that good, and soon became the Kings and migrated west like pioneers that overslept.

And don't y'all go knocking Don Kojis. He was part of the big Rod Thorn for Bob Ferry trade in '64. Turned the Bullets right around.

I am LOVING this thread. Don Kojis. Who knew? Thanks, montestewart! Great post.

Oscar finally got his title (I didn't know what you posted above) later with Milwaukee and Lew Alcindor (Kareem). Tiny got his title with Bird, McHale, and Parish. The Kings weren't good until Sacramento years.