magic propose vc for gil

Mad Balla 15 · Post #101 » by **Mad Balla 15** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:23 pm

Gilbert is definitely a much better player than Vince is right now but it will be interesting to see how he meshes with Jameer if this trade does happen.

Magicfan94 · Post #102 » by **Magicfan94** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:24 pm

Hotshot Hower wrote:Make this happen.

Why would you shore up your 2 & 3 spots with the matching of JJ (@ $7.5M) and the signing of Q (remainder of MLE), and Pietrus (whose role will be different this year), why wouldn't you consider a deal for Arenas, especially at the expense of Vince (who we practically got for a few expiring's)? As Ryno-CLee were a wash in my book.

Cash the chips, while they're still available (ala Vince).

Folks, were going to continue to spend and stay competitive, so stop talking about 2013. We'll have that "flexibility" with the current structure of our roster, but trades along with other moves will just about tarnish that opportunity. Look at the Nets for instance.. Clear a bunch of salary, trade away few nice assets that haven't had a chance to develop, just to "over-spend" on this "Highly Coveted" FA Crop while missing on the BIG name's? NO thank you.

There's NO WAY we'll be moving Shard's deal anytime soon, so take the hit, take the gamble.

I agree...but not for a guy who isn't guarenteed to give you much more than Vince did last year...especially a guy I wouldn't call a great shooter.

The risk far outweighs the value...

Magicfan94 · Post #103 » by **Magicfan94** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:29 pm

Mad Balla 15 wrote:Gilbert is definitely a much better player than Vince is right now but it will be interesting to see how he meshes with Jameer if this trade does happen.

You're basing that on what? The fact that Arenas used to score a lot?

The truth is, the guy hasn't played even half a season in over three years. A guy who has never been a great shooter to begin with. A guy who is undersized at his natural position, which is the two. A guy who is owed $80 million guarenteed. A guy who would just be Vince Carter with a longer contract.

Top that off with the whole lockerroom turned convicted felon incident and you've got a no brainer to avoid unless necessary.

SolidSnake008 · Post #104 » by **SolidSnake008** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:35 pm

Kunta Kinte wrote:Devos got money to blow. He should give sum of that to a charity or sumn. This team ain't passing the 2nd round with Gil or Vince. What's da point of adding money on money? Doesn't make sense to me. Lol@ the Magic lookin' like the Knicks, team full of bad contracts.

spinedoc · Post #105 » by **spinedoc** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:38 pm

ChocThunder25 wrote:Spine from the small amount of time I have been here, I've noticed you make insightful posts, so I don't want you to think that I'm dismissing what you said. Some teams will give up draft picks to unload a contract , I'm aware that it happens. In this case, everything I've heard from family in DC is that the front office actually prefers to use draft picks, as there ius more "bang for your buck". I'm not sure if that's a way to say ownershi[ is cheap or a GM considers himself a good judge of talent. Take that for what is worth.

I'm sure they would want to hold onto their picks, but given Arenas' recent history and that contract, how can they not kick something else in the deal? If not a first rounder, then at least an injured Blatche, or even Hilton Armstrong, something. Its not like Vince isn't capable of playing anymore, he still has some game, as well as a very nice expiring contract. I don't think its too unreasonable.

SolidSnake008 · Post #106 » by **SolidSnake008** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:39 pm

Magicfan94 wrote:
Mad Balla 15 wrote:Gilbert is definitely a much better player than Vince is right now but it will be interesting to see how he meshes with Jameer if this trade does happen.

You're basing that on what? The fact that Arenas used to score a lot?

The truth is, the guy hasn't played even half a season in over three years. A guy who has never been a great shooter to begin with. A guy who is undersized at his natural position, which is the two. A guy who is owed $80 million guarenteed. A guy who would just be Vince Carter with a longer contract.

Top that off with the whole lockerroom turned convicted felon incident and you've got a no brainer to avoid unless necessary.

50/50 on it IMO though Gilbert looked pretty good in the games he did play this past season....in fact if you compare vince to him you would think it was vince coming off a major injury....Oh and the size really isn't an issue i mean correct me if i'm wrong but isn't Wade and Arenas practically the same height?

Hotshot Hower · Post #107 » by **Hotshot Hower** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:40 pm

Magicfan94 wrote:
Hotshot Hower wrote:Make this happen.

Why would you shore up your 2 & 3 spots with the matching of JJ (@ $7.5M) and the signing of Q (remainder of MLE), and Pietrus (whose role will be different this year), why wouldn't you consider a deal for Arenas, especially at the expense of Vince (who we practically got for a few expiring's)? As Ryno-CLee were a wash in my book.

Cash the chips, while they're still available (ala Vince).

Folks, were going to continue to spend and stay competitive, so stop talking about 2013. We'll have that "flexibility" with the current structure of our roster, but trades along with other moves will just about tarnish that opportunity. Look at the Nets for instance.. Clear a bunch of salary, trade away few nice assets that haven't had a chance to develop, just to "over-spend" on this "Highly Coveted" FA Crop while missing on the BIG name's? NO thank you.

There's NO WAY we'll be moving Shard's deal anytime soon, so take the hit, take the gamble.

I agree...but not for a guy who isn't guarenteed to give you much more than Vince did last year...especially a guy I wouldn't call a great shooter.

The risk far outweighs the value...

Thing is, I have a pretty good clue of what Vince would bring to the table this year (in terms of production/effiency) while Arenas could be a ticking time bomb waiting to happen, or back to his former self. The guy is 4-5 years younger than Vince and how alot you have pointed out, his Dec number's were something special. If he could average anywhere close to that neighborhood while sustaining his health, this deal is a no brainer.

We probably talked to just about every team out there regarding S&T's (starting by offering VC's deal). Plus, Washington just aquired Hinrich. So Grunfield probably see's VC not just as a "partial expiring", but a leader with some game left, who allows Wall to be "Wall". They lost Miller, they lost Foye. They're weak at the "2", plain and simple.

I'd love for a future pick to be included OR package VC w/Gortat (or Bass, preferably) for Thornton.

Even during JJ's press conference, JJ hinted Otis always has something up his sleeve, so I just don't see us paying $7.5M (this season) to JJ if he's not starting, while having Pietrus, and now Q.

Also, Gortat is another name making mid-level money who is inevitably on the move. Otis is just gauging which package or which "impact" player to bring in at this point.

RickB-Orlando · Post #108 » by **RickB-Orlando** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:46 pm

Nolimit1211 wrote:FOR ANYONE AGAINST THIS TRADE: Seeing how this trade would involve phsyicals to make sure Gil is healthy...

How about psychologicals? I mean, the guy seems like a headcase to me. No question about his talent, physical health a minor question, ability to stay healthy a big question in my mind, but is his head straightened out? If not, don't you have to pass?

BelgianMagic · Post #109 » by **BelgianMagic** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:51 pm

I think it's obvious that IF Arenas would come, he'd play SG, not PG. So JJ would still come off the bench ..

Orange Ave. · Post #110 » by **Orange Ave.** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:54 pm

Did I miss who reported this on 740 am?

If it was Shot Doctor, I just wasted 8 pages of my life. When it comes to basketball knowledge, the guy is echoes between the ears. If it's not about the Yankees or New York sports in general, the guy doesn't have a clue.

Assuming it true, I'm on the fence talent/chemistry/contract wise. You throw in DC's first round pick in one of the next 2 years, unprotected, and I'd make that trade all day.

Shishnizzle · Post #111 » by **Shishnizzle** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:59 pm

After reading everything that has been said and taking all of your arguments into account. I have made a decision.

I say keep Vince to the allstar break and see what pans out. Arenas risk verse reward is too high. There will be better offers at the break.

Magicfan94 · Post #112 » by **Magicfan94** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:01 pm

raf008 wrote:
Magicfan94 wrote:
Mad Balla 15 wrote:Gilbert is definitely a much better player than Vince is right now but it will be interesting to see how he meshes with Jameer if this trade does happen.

You're basing that on what? The fact that Arenas used to score a lot?

The truth is, the guy hasn't played even half a season in over three years. A guy who has never been a great shooter to begin with. A guy who is undersized at his natural position, which is the two. A guy who is owed $80 million guarenteed. A guy who would just be Vince Carter with a longer contract.

Top that off with the whole lockerroom turned convicted felon incident and you've got a no brainer to avoid unless necessary.

50/50 on it IMO though Gilbert looked pretty good in the games he did play this past season....in fact if you compare vince to him you would think it was vince coming off a major injury....Oh and the size really isn't an issue i mean correct me if i'm wrong but isn't Wade and Arenas practically the same
Wade and Arenas are not even close to the same player.height?

DaMVP23 · Post #113 » by **DaMVP23** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:03 pm

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=28gnqf8

I hope this is the trick he got up his sleeve.

Magicfan94 · Post #114 » by **Magicfan94** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:03 pm

For one months worth of numbers? No thanks.

BelgianMagic · Post #115 » by **BelgianMagic** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:06 pm

Wade and Arenas are exactly as big as the other. Both 6'4

Big A All Day · Post #116 » by **Big A All Day** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:10 pm

DaMVP23 wrote:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28gnqf8

I hope this is the trick he got up his sleeve.

Stop posting this crap.. NOT GONNA HAPPEN

SolidSnake008 · Post #117 » by **SolidSnake008** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:14 pm

Magicfan 94 of course wade and Gilbert are the same player but physically they're the same height and wade is only 5 pounds heavier.....Thats why i can't get the argument about the size issue Hell iverson was fukcing 5"10 and was primarily a 2 guard and was successful at that spot

Cammo101 · Post #118 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:16 pm

Arenas for VC works in a bubble, but it hurts our team fit. Arenas and Jameer can not co-exist in the same backcourt, so unless there is a Jameer trade to follow, this makes no sense to me.

Cammo101 · Post #119 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:18 pm

BelgianMagic wrote:Wade and Arenas are exactly as big as the other. Both 6'4

Having seen them next to each other, they are not the same height. And even if they were, Arenas and Jameer would not work because both are below average defenders and ball dominate, not because of height.

ADRajX · Post #120 » by **ADRajX** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:23 pm

Carter was a pretty terrible defender, before SVG and staff got him to be somewhat competent at it during last season's run

It takes discipline and coaching to motivate some players... Gilbert is not getting that in Washington... no offense to Wizards fans, but their coaching staff are not exactly the smartest bunch in the Capital... and neither are the characters, personas, and players that have surrounded Arenas in his tenure there for the past 6 years or so either