Andrea isn't a C - But what is a C?

[RonaldArtest]

The reason people keep harping on his rebounding is because he rarely grabs any offensive boards. His peers at the C spot are grabbing 1.5-2.5 per game or whatever, and due to where Bargs' offensive game mainly is (the perimeter), he's never in position to even fight for a board. I think his rebounding on the defensive end has improved (slightly) since his rookie days, but he needs to mix it up in the key and give us some additional second chances. He's a big guy and he rarely uses that size to any advantage.

[FirstInkTDot]

You don't see C's shooting three's.... a real center would be Kendrick Perkins... he is a guy that is able to rebound and lay up... Bargnani is usually on the 3 pt line waiting for a shot and if it misses there is barely a chance for the PF or SF to get the ball back..

[ReggieSlater]

I can't think of a single thing Bargs will do better at the 4.

Everything he does poorly can just as easily be addressed at the 4, if need be.

Making Bargnani a PF will get him more fouls, quicker defenders guarding him, quicker players to guard and guys who are better at guarding the perimeter.

His best spot is at the 5. You just have to swallow the crap rebounding.

[SDM]

Bargnani will look great with a defensive, beanpole type PF. Bargs has the bulk to handle defending centers man to man, and I thought he was good last year in this regard. Also, a lot of his blocks come when facing his man, so this suggests issues with foot speed rather than timing when it comes to help defense. Amir and Davis should form an interesting tandem with Bargs. From the improvements I've seen in his defensive game over the last couple seasons, I'd be willing to bet that he's not done improving yet. This season you will see both Bosh and Bargnani play solid defense.

[ReggieSlater]

Bargnani will look great with a defensive, beanpole type PF. Bargs has the bulk to handle defending centers man to man, and I thought he was good last year in this regard. Also, a lot of his blocks come when facing his man, so this suggests issues with foot speed rather than timing when it comes to help defense. Amir and Davis should form an interesting tandem with Bargs. From the improvements I've seen in his defensive game over the last couple seasons, I'd be willing to bet that he's not done improving yet. This season you will see both Bosh and Bargnani play solid defense.

Let's hope Ed Davis can be that guy. He certainly has the chance to be a great rebounding and shot-blocking Forward.

[UnRealGM]

si, senor

[appel]

Bargnani will look great with a defensive, beanpole type PF. Bargs has the bulk to handle defending centers man to man, and I thought he was good last year in this regard. Also, a lot of his blocks come when facing his man, so this suggests issues with foot speed rather than timing when it comes to help defense. Amir and Davis should form an interesting tandem with Bargs. From the improvements I've seen in his defensive game over the last couple seasons, I'd be willing to bet that he's not done improving yet. This season you will see both Bosh and Bargnani play solid defense.

Let's hope Ed Davis can be that guy. He certainly has the chance to be a great rebounding and shot-blocking Forward.

I've a lot of hopes in ED too

[appel]

I can't think of a single thing Bargs will do better at the 4.

Everything he does poorly can just as easily be addressed at the 4, if need be.

Making Bargnani a PF will get him more fouls, quicker defenders guarding him, quicker players to guard and guys who are better at guarding the perimeter.

His best spot is at the 5. You just have to swallow the crap rebounding.

Did you see Howard or Yao or Shaq or Oden or Lopez guarding Bargs? I've never seen

[basketball royalty]

People worry too much about positions. Bargs can cover Cs and that make him a C. What he needs is a guy beside him that will contest shots and do the heavy lifting on defense and rebounding. A guy like Amir is just fine at that and he is a PF. It works out fine, you just can't have two soft jumpshooting bigs that don't help others on D taking up the bulk of your minutes in the 4 and 5 spot.

[ReggieSlater]

I can't think of a single thing Bargs will do better at the 4.

Everything he does poorly can just as easily be addressed at the 4, if need be.

Making Bargnani a PF will get him more fouls, quicker defenders guarding him, quicker players to guard and guys who are better at guarding the perimeter.

His best spot is at the 5. You just have to swallow the crap rebounding.

Did you see Howard or Yao or Shaq or Oden or Lopez guarding Bargs? I've never seen

Bargs has a good first step and most of those guys can't guard him when he faces up. That advantage is nullified at the 4 where the defenders are quicker.

[timdunkit]

Bargnani needs to play beside a guy like Horford ...

[UnRealGM]

Bargnani needs to play beside a guy like Horford ...

or lopez

[appel]

I can't think of a single thing Bargs will do better at the 4.

Everything he does poorly can just as easily be addressed at the 4, if need be.

Making Bargnani a PF will get him more fouls, quicker defenders guarding him, quicker players to guard and guys who are better at guarding the perimeter.

His best spot is at the 5. You just have to swallow the crap rebounding.

Did you see Howard or Yao or Shaq or Oden or Lopez guarding Bargs? I've never seen

Bargs has a good first step and most of those guys can't guard him when he faces up. That advantage is nullified at the 4 where the defenders are quicker.

If you play low post 90% of times you don't face the basket
And you can't use your first step

[Reignman]

A Centers main job on defense is to be an eraser for breakdowns on the perimeter by providing help D. The C is usually the closest to the basket so he's responsible for rotating and providing help. He also needs to rebound and box out (sometimes needing to box out multiple people). Since he's also the biggest guy in the back and can see what the offense is doing, he should be barking out orders on where the other 4 guys need to be.

On offense a C should score on high percentages (because he's the closest to the basket and normally the biggest guy on the floor). It's a bonus if he can draw a double team in the post because that opens up the game for everyone else. He should also set very good picks to free up the perimeter guys. He also needs to make himself big in order to receive passes in the paint. He should also crash the boards for offensive rebounds.

For Bargs I don't expect him to really play like a C on offense because it takes away from his strengths, but on defense he NEEDS to do what a C does because that's where most of the value of a C lies. Unfortunately Bargs can't do 90% of what a C is needed to do on defense. His man D is decent and his straight up shot blocking is very good but that's a very small part of a C's responsibility on D.

[Rapsalot]

You are getting all work up over words:

If you look at the history of the C their roles "traditionally" are to be the last line of D, very good rebounder, a tough guy leader in the history "the Ron-Ron rule no lay ups" type. Generally a big full body that can lean and push people around in the paint.

We have not had this with Bosh or Bargs. That is why Bosh has wanted one for all these years but when we got JO he is more of an Off C and not a Def C which is what both Bosh and Bargs needs.

I understand you don't have to have this type of "traditional" C to win ie Lakers and Jabar but that team put others around him to make up for some of his lack of size.

They is no question that the traditional C role has change some in the past years. Young players all want to be guards or forward and don't perfect the trade of being a C like they did in years past. You see this in Howard even Shaq wanted to to more ball handling.

If you want to look at a true C the best I have seen in recent years is Patrick E for the NY knicks or Hakim for the Rockets. These guy had it all D, Rebounding, toughness, back to the basket moves, a little jump shot, passing out of the post on the double teams and could shoot free throws too.

Could you really say if you had the choice of taking Patrick or Hakim for the C position at the Draft time vs Bargs you would not have taken them. That is why he is not a traditional C

[NBA Sheady]

so that they can position themselves between the basket and player every time down the floor- not necessarily his man but anyone holding the ball

I love watching Ed do this.

[JumpinJack24]

andrea is gonna hit a new level this year, im certain of it. he will demand the ball, and he will get it if Jose is traded.

the next problem will be dealing with double teams. hes not used to that, due to bosh being around.

sorry, couldn't resist getting that bold part in there

[nbajam]

The position has changed in the last few years. How many low-post threats are there in the league now? If you check for C's that averaged more than 15 points last year, you will find:

Brook Lopez 18.8
Chris Kaman 18.5
Dwight Howard 18.3
Tim Duncan 17.9

That's it.

This is a guard-oriented league now. Guards attack from the outside, the rules are such that any little contact is whistled and so it is more than likely that drives will make it to the rim. It's not like the old days where teams played inside-out. It's more the other way around.

That being said, what's more important, guarding centers one-on-one, which Bargs is good at, or playing help defense and contesting plays at the rim from the inevitable guard penetration?

[ReggieSlater]

So don't set him up in the low post against those guys. Dwight guarding Bargs is going to mean foul trouble and many trips to the FT line.

[SDM]

You are getting all work up over words:

If you look at the history of the C their roles "traditionally" are to be the last line of D, very good rebounder, a tough guy leader in the history "the Ron-Ron rule no lay ups" type. Generally a big full body that can lean and push people around in the paint.

We have not had this with Bosh or Bargs. That is why Bosh has wanted one for all these years but when we got JO he is more of an Off C and not a Def C which is what both Bosh and Bargs needs.

I understand you don't have to have this type of "traditional" C to win ie Lakers and Jabar but that team put others around him to make up for some of his lack of size.

They is no question that the traditional C role has change some in the past years. Young players all want to be guards or forward and don't perfect the trade of being a C like they did in years past. You see this in Howard even Shaq wanted to to more ball handling.

If you want to look at a true C the best I have seen in recent years is Patrick E for the NY knicks or Hakim for the Rockets. These guy had it all D, Rebounding, toughness, back to the basket moves, a little jump shot, passing out of the post on the double teams and could shoot free throws too.

Could you really say if you had the choice of taking Patrick or Hakim for the C position at the Draft time vs Bargs you would not have taken them. That is why he is not a traditional C

Bolded the stupid parts.