Andrea isn't a C - But what is a C?

[Reignman]

Let me think
looking at the 3 years BEFORE Bargs
93 W - 156 L
With Bargs (4 years)
161 - 167

Yes, i agree, the big reason is Bargs
Plz trade him!

You just made my point. Your broken logic that our poor record in our 15 year history is the reason we don't deserve Bargs is (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Bargs isn't helping us win either so what's your point?

Not exactly
This was the broken logic of Reignman ("Bargs is a big reason our record has been this poor")

Ofcourse. You don't think Bargnani's team high 38 mins per game while playing abysmal help D and providing barely any help as a rebounder as our starting C didn't impact our win/loss record?

And you say you've watched basketball for 40 years, you sure about that?

[ReggieSlater]

Go ask other fans what they think of andrea bargnani. You really wont like what they have to say about him

If he was being shopped around half the teams would be interested, and wouldn't think twice about fitting the bill. Let's not get too worked up about what a bunch of fans who seem him play, at best, twice a year, think about.

I think we'll really see what we got after this season.

[DasKoo]

Is he really? From what I've seen he looks like a pretty poor coach. I've only seen the first half of the Bulgaria game but the team looked like a mess imho.

that was by far the worst part of the 5 games played so far.
the 1st quarter was still decent; in the 2nd quarter he put in the reserves and let them play the whole period, and… the bald point guard was by far the worst offender, but everyone else sucked as well.

in the 3rd quarter italy closed the 18 points gap, and by half 4th was leading by 9; reserves come in again, and… well, y'know.

[Truthrising]

Why the hell does Appel keep bringing up our team record? Hasn't Bargs been on this team for the last 4 years as well? Weird. Now I'm not sure if Appel loves or hates Bargs, if our record is a problem then Bargs is a big reason our record has been this poor.

Let me think
looking at the 3 years BEFORE Bargs
93 W - 156 L
With Bargs (4 years)
161 - 167

Yes, i agree, the big reason is Bargs
Plz trade him!

Good point, didn't realize how bad the Raps were before bargs was drafted....I think the problem is that he doesn't have a star winger and a true centre to support him as well. Even though our record was a lot better when we drafted him but I think it'd be a lot better if we brought in those 2 variables.

[DasKoo]

I think a lot of Raptors fans have problem with my english

come dico sempre, se avete problemi col mio inglese possiamo passare all'italiano.
e se avete problemi col mio l'italiano, possiamo passare al barese.
e se avete problemi col mio barese, possiamo passare alle mani.

nah, scherzo. j/k.

[HeyJoe]

this thread is absurd

[wolfv]

Go ask other fans what they think of andrea bargnani. You really wont like what they have to say about him

If he was being shopped around half the teams would be interested, and wouldn't think twice about fitting the bill. Let's not get too worked up about what a bunch of fans who seem him play, at best, twice a year, think about.

I think we'll really see what we got after this season.

I agree with that and I hope he does very well. But appel is saying toronto fans don't deserve bargs and he wishes he were traded. Other fans crap on bargs way more than raptors fans do

[dillio]

I don't understand why appel keeps saying that we "don't deserve Bargs". Granted, I don't think you'll find too many people that disagree - after all this franchise has been through of course we don't deserve Bargs - we deserve much, much better. I'm just surprised to hear that from appel because he comes across as a bit of a Bargnani fan.

I think a lot of Raptors fans have problem with my english
IOK, my english is poor
But ithink a kid can see the difference between "The Raptor fans don't deserves" and "A lot of fans don't deserves"

A lot of Raptors fans can't read ?

What are you talking about? My point had nothing to do with whether you said "The Raptor fans" or "A lot of fans". I wasn't even arguing with you, I was actually agreeing with you. We (or "a lot of us" if that makes you feel better) don't deserve Bargs - we deserve better.

[Komodo]

He doesn't rebound or protect the paint, nor does he provide any low-post offense. I don't care if he doesn't have many post moves, when you're 7' and 260 lbs. you can get in there and bang bodies, fight for offensive rebounds, and try to finish. Worst case scenario is you get blocked, but more often than not you're going to get fouled, put the opposing bigs in foul trouble, and get easy points at the line. That's the big thing, he has the talent and size, but he doesn't have the desire.

[AH-1 Cobra]

It is obvious that Andrea is not a typical C. In comparison he has more offensive options with OK 1-1 D and NO help-D.

The question is how we can best use him and build around him.

Now that Bosh is gone, it would be intresting to see how the offense will run through Andrea. Since he has more options attacking and has good vision passing.

On defense we need a larger size Garbo to compliment him. A smart defender who excels in team D would mask Andrea help D weakness.

I would never expect him to consistently grab more than 6-7 rebounds per game. Just hope he catches those that are falling on his head.

[ReggieSlater]

He doesn't rebound or protect the paint, nor does he provide any low-post offense. I don't care if he doesn't have many post moves, when you're 7' and 260 lbs. you can get in there and bang bodies, fight for offensive rebounds, and try to finish. Worst case scenario is you get blocked, but more often than not you're going to get fouled, put the opposing bigs in foul trouble, and get easy points at the line. That's the big thing, he has the talent and size, but he doesn't have the desire.

You can do that just as easily by facing up and taking your defender off the dribble. That was pretty much Bosh's game. He does have some post moves though. He's not going to beat you down like Shaq but when he's got a smaller guy he score down low.

[Komodo]

He doesn't rebound or protect the paint, nor does he provide any low-post offense. I don't care if he doesn't have many post moves, when you're 7' and 260 lbs. you can get in there and bang bodies, fight for offensive rebounds, and try to finish. Worst case scenario is you get blocked, but more often than not you're going to get fouled, put the opposing bigs in foul trouble, and get easy points at the line. That's the big thing, he has the talent and size, but he doesn't have the desire.

You can do that just as easily by facing up and taking your defender off the dribble. That was pretty much Bosh's game. He does have some post moves though. He's not going to beat you down like Shaq but when he's got a smaller guy he score down low.

I'm not talking about backing anyone down in the post. When a shot goes up, why can he get in there and fight for rebounds? I never see this. Why does he always have to camp out at the 3 point line? Get the **** in there and fight! With his size, there is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be banging bodies, post moves or not.

[largib]

andrea is gonna hit a new level this year, im certain of it. he will demand the ball, and he will get it.

the next problem will be dealing with double teams. hes not used to that, due to bosh being around.

Believe it or not, Bargs is a better passer than Bosh. If he is doubled up, he will do a better job than Bosh. He is also taller than Bosh and that should help a little.

[Indeed]

No one wants to take on a $50 million player better suited to be a 6th man, so a trade is pretty much out of the question. That and BC will not make a trade until his experiment comes back with the final definitive results (in 2015).

Actually i think Toronto don't deserve Bargs, 'cause a lot of idiots
Try to trade him to GS plz, Bargs for Biedo or for Lee, trade him to Memphis for Z-Bo, to Charlotte for Dampier, to Dallas for Haywood, to Washington for nothing, i don't care where
I read enough

A lot of Raptors fan deserve a lot of 30-52 seasons
How many winning season had Toronto in last 15 years?
4? Too much, a lot of fans don't deserve better

None of those teams will babysit and coddle Bargs like we do here... so, if he DID get traded, you can expect his minutes and numbers to drop.

Is that what you really want for your favorite player?

I think its just you under rating Bargnani.
I can see he can reach prime Jamison.

Jamison is a better rebounder and more athletic.
Meanwhile, Bargnani is a better defender and with a deadly shooting.

I think Bargnani can worth 15m if he is built properly with the right pieces.

[AH-1 Cobra]

He doesn't rebound or protect the paint, nor does he provide any low-post offense. I don't care if he doesn't have many post moves, when you're 7' and 260 lbs. you can get in there and bang bodies, fight for offensive rebounds, and try to finish. Worst case scenario is you get blocked, but more often than not you're going to get fouled, put the opposing bigs in foul trouble, and get easy points at the line. That's the big thing, he has the talent and size, but he doesn't have the desire.

You can do that just as easily by facing up and taking your defender off the dribble. That was pretty much Bosh's game. He does have some post moves though. He's not going to beat you down like Shaq but when he's got a smaller guy he score down low.

I'm not talking about backing anyone down in the post. When a shot goes up, why can he get in there and fight for rebounds? I never see this. Why does he always have to camp out at the 3 point line? Get the **** in there and fight! With his size, there is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be banging bodies, post moves or not.

Back when zone defense was not allowed in NBA, Andrea camping out at 3pt line can at least draw the big man guarding him further away from the basket. But with zone D, this wouldn't work at all.

Face it, banging bodies is not in his DNA. If we value his strength, then find someone else to cover his weakness.

[Firesphere]

Does Evans mix well to help cover Bargnani's gaps.. ? Just wondering, he is extremely defensive and has a nose for the scrappy ball... maybe a nice backup to Amir when foul trouble abounds?

[Reignman]

Does Evans mix well to help cover Bargnani's gaps.. ? Just wondering, he is extremely defensive and has a nose for the scrappy ball... maybe a nice backup to Amir when foul trouble abounds?

Evans is a piss poor defender and a black hole on offense. I hope he gets zero minutes next season and would prefer to play Dorsey in that role.

[HeyJoe]

Back when zone defense was not allowed in NBA, Andrea camping out at 3pt line can at least draw the big man guarding him further away from the basket. But with zone D, this wouldn't work at all.

Face it, banging bodies is not in his DNA. If we value his strength, then find someone else to cover his weakness.

as much as i don't like andrea's play, you're not gonna run into a zone on a nightly basis

that **** worked for college but even then only sometimes

[Firesphere]

LoL, "piss poor defender".. he wasn't at his exact peak last year, but this guy is known for his defense.. I know his offense is poor, but we have that in spades.

[Komodo]

Back when zone defense was not allowed in NBA, Andrea camping out at 3pt line can at least draw the big man guarding him further away from the basket. But with zone D, this wouldn't work at all.

Face it, banging bodies is not in his DNA. If we value his strength, then find someone else to cover his weakness.

Exactly. But he's not the type of player that you build around. He's a complimentary piece. I think he'd be a 3rd big on a contending team, but a valuable one.

I actually like Bargnani. But his reluctance to get his nose dirty really puts a damper on things. And when you're not providing the things that are necessary for winning basketball games (low post offense, protecting the rim, rebounding) it puts things into perspective.