When? How?

[60cent]

Hey guys! So far ive been reading a lot of your posts and everybody's making valid points and i appreciate everyone's opinion whether it's positive or not. Overall, it makes my days, weeks and months salivating for a real game, fun and occupied.

Anyways, this thread is mainly for my one BIG question. I know we've discussed a lot of things about trades, free agency, drafts, the LeBron watch, our move to Newark and Brooklyn, our management and owners. We have disagreed on certain things. In fact, we've argued on so many things over the years but our focus remained intact and thats to share our opinions to make our team better the way we think its best.

Now, the question is... When do we pull the trigger and say... This is it... This is the one we've been waiting for to make our team a legit contender? Im not losing faith or anything but i just wonder, how? I mean, to me and im sure most of you guys would agree, the best way is to get a real superstar. But how many more superstar are there available for us to grab? LeBron, Wade and Bosh... I doubt they'll break that team apart when they just signed multi-year contracts and ya'll know what happened to LeBron. Kobe... I dont think he'll ever leave LA. Durant... He's a upcoming superstar but i think he just made it clear to everyone what his intentions were especially by signing that extension. There are FEW that can be had but most or all of them are already in the midst of their careers or having some injury problems.

Its actually part of the reason why i didnt like them big three teaming up together. You've gotta wanna beat each other up instead of volting-in and beat no one.

Again... When would you do it and how?

PS. I wanted to elaborate more but im kinda occupied right now. I just wanted to post this real quick before i lose my thoughts, so i apologize if im rambling a little bit.

[Dexmor]

They said King that there are 14 weeks left so the roster could look different.
Haven't said that the only thing I don't like is Twilliams will probably be traded and is the odd man out when the team shoud be built around WIlliams-Favors-Lopez and Harris if he's not on the block. Having said that Williams is the odd man out and they are getting calls for him after his summer league so you could see a Williams for Landry swap.
As for another star they have to wait until 1 becomes cheap.
It may not happen though.
All they need is for 1 star to become available or trade Favors for Love and Sessions and then move Harris or get just 1 more high draft pick and they are ready to contend in 2 years or so.
I could see Favors and James starting next year.

[Dexmor]

Im not sure how much I like the wait and see approach and hope a Paul becomes available because imo he won't and what team is gonna give up on a young star. We can't take a 30 year old or even 28.
They would have to be like 25 or younger so it won't happen imo.
They should move on and trade Harris and have Williams run the pg with Farmar or trade TWill if he is the odd man out for A Jason Thompson and then have the cap room just in case or for next year.
I hope they pull a Portland every year and buy up as many 1st and 2nd rounders and get 4 rookie a year,

[vincecarter4pres]

^^No way in hell I would trade Favors for Kevin Love.

60, I'll come back to this one later.

[HotShots]

I would like us to try and get Granger but keep Favors. Dev and TWill and 2 first round picks for Granger.

Trade ID #5626042

Farmer would be our starting pg. We will need another back up pg....here are some that are unrestricted Acie law, Jannero Pargo, Javaris Crittenton, Jamaal Tinsley etc.... We really need a few solid 3 point shooters with Lopez and Favors. Morrow and Granger are solid at the 3s. I hope Lee has been working on his 3 point shot this off season. The summer of 2011 would be a search for a new pg or sg. Depends on how Farmer, Morrow and Lee work out.

[Preludepunk27]

I would like us to try and get Granger but keep Favors. Dev and TWill and 2 first round picks for Granger.

Trade ID #5626042

Farmer would be our starting pg. We will need another back up pg....here are some that are unrestricted Acie law, Jannero Pargo, Javaris Crittenton, Jamaal Tinsley etc.... We really need a few solid 3 point shooters with Lopez and Favors. Morrow and Granger are solid at the 3s. I hope Lee has been working on his 3 point shot this off season. The summer of 2011 would be a search for a new pg or sg. Depends on how Farmer, Morrow and Lee work out.

As mucha s I like Granger, he is not worth Devin, Twill and 2 first rounders.

[HotShots]

If Granger was on our team, thats what I would want in return. I dont think you can go any cheaper. You would definately protect the picks. Indiana isnt desperate to get rid of Granger.

I understand what your saying not worth it for you.

[Preludepunk27]

If Granger was on our team, thats what I would want in return. I dont think you can go any cheaper. You would definately protect the picks. Indiana isnt desperate to get rid of Granger.

I understand what your saying not worth it for you.

Actually I would agree with that comment. I was actually thinking something along those lines myself. Right now he is the face of that franchise. Though he is not worth that much, I would expect Bird to want something along those lines to trade his franchise player. I mean, he offered him to us for Devin and Favors.

But with that said, I just don't think that is totally fair value, but I understand where you're coming from because I would imagine the Pacers organization having similar logic. I would be fine with Devin/Lee/future 2nd(s) to open time/space for Morrow/Twill but I am probably even lowballing their minimum bid. As good as Granger is, I'm not gonna overpay for him.

[mack69]

The trade idea seems to be a hefty price for Granger. But me and Hotshot are sharing the same thought process I would like to get Granger by the trade deadline. If Brook and Favors develops to the point that Brook is a All star and Favors brings in solid rookie numbers I think we can be impressive enough for Melo to consider us.

[mikhailjordan]

I don't get the Granger hype, is he even better than Iguodala?

I honestly don't think so... And before people start criticizing Iguodala for "being unable to shoot" according to Hoopdata.com over the last 4 years from 16-23 feet:

Iguodala FG%: 37.4%
Granger FG%: 39.8%

*Granger is a vastly superior three-point shooter, so I'm fine with saying he's the better shooter than Iguodala but when you factor in DG's health concerns... I ask again is Danny Granger really better than Andre Iguodala?

Defensively you could argue they're even (I personally think Iguodala is better), as a playmaker Iguodala blows Granger out of the water, Granger handles the ball more / always has a higher usage rate...

[vincecarter4pres]

I'm 50/50 on Granger.

First things first though, I love Granger, think he's a very underrated player.

But, with that said he's always injured and I think we could have an honest shot at Melo, let alone the best prospect as of now(I know, it's way early and we haven't even seen these kids play a lick of college ball yet...) is Harrison Barnes, a small forward through and through himself.

I think that Devin and T Will is close to about perfect value and fit for Granger and Indy, and is very interesting and fair for us. The two picks seem like over kill.

It will depend on how Indy is looking come the deadline though.
Are they in the midst of a playoff run?
How is Paul George looking? Is he looking like a legitimate long term two guard, or will he have to play the 3 to be successful and effective and is he too good to bring off the bench?
How bad is the lack of a point guard situation in Indy?
Is Granger happy? Is he asking out, even if privately?
How is Bird feeling about Granger? Although he seems to really like the kid, giving him the tough love treatment, he also seems to take issue with him at times.

It will also depend on what we're looking like.
Are we likely lotto bound again?
Are we one move like this away from the playoffs and is it worth it to take the plunge?
Is Devin healthy?
Is T Will exploding on the scene or has Avery giving him the Devin Does Dallas treatment?
How is Farmar looking? Is he looking like a quality starter and if not, is getting Granger going to ruin our lotto position to draft the next stud guy when there are going to be 3 or 4 true stud looking point prospects in next year's draft, with the top 3 likley all gone in the first 8 to 10 picks?
Losing Devin might not seem like a bad idea to some fans, but without a good point how will we ever get the best out of Brook, Granger and Favors, let alone the shooters?

Also, will other teams in the league outbid us and does Larry Legend want to ship Granger in conference if he was ultimately on the block?

Overall it's an interesting idea, especially around the deadline, but it maybe better to wait on next offseason to see if this is really the right move, although sometimes you snooze you lose.

Way too early to predict what's going to happen this season though, both from our perspective, Indy's and whatever other random team with a star becomes a seller...

[vincecarter4pres]

I don't get the Granger hype, is he even better than Iguodala?

IMHO, absolutely and it's not even close.
Granger is much closer to Melo then he is to Iggy.
If Granger wasn't injured all the time(big IF), I think he would have dragged one of the worst rosters in the league to the playoffs kicking and screaming the last 2 seasons.

[60cent]

Back to the topic... Is Granger the kind of player that will get us over the hump? The kind of player we can mortgage our future (some said 2 1st rd picks but i assume it'll be protected)? Is he one of the big players we need, giving up talents and picks, and say "now we can win a championship"?

If we go back to the other thread and find where Granger is amongst the top 20 player in the NBA right now, i think in average he didnt even hit the top 15, and some didnt even have him as their top 20 including me.

This is a tough scenerio and i think we're not alone, same goes with most teams, because we really need a superstar but most superstars cannot be had. And if we go back to Prokhorov's statement about winning a championship in 5 years, he's really gonna have to open his wallet and overpay.

My old perception when i hear fans say "oh, not Scola because he's getting older and he's not gonna make much of a difference and his salary will just add up to our cap" was yeah, we better not do that and give the young guys a chance and maybe they'll get better in 2 years time. But, for me, things have changed, i think this is not the right time to play conservative and we have to go all out and show that we mean business. Im sorry, i think im losing patience esp. when i think of top players we need to get and realize that its not gonna be easy.

For me, with the staff we have in place and better, younger players, and still a weak East, we will still make the playoffs regardless. I dont know guys... I know, in my mind that we are building the right way but part of me wants to just go all out and see what happens. I know its so easy to say that but the consequences may become worse than what the Knicks experienced.

Im starting to think that the more we wait, the less chances of gettng a superstar without parting with the players we believe in like Lopez.

[enetric]

I don't get the Granger hype, is he even better than Iguodala?

I honestly don't think so... And before people start criticizing Iguodala for "being unable to shoot" according to Hoopdata.com over the last 4 years from 16-23 feet:

Iguodala FG%: 37.4%
Granger FG%: 39.8%

*Granger is a vastly superior three-point shooter, so I'm fine with saying he's the better shooter than Iguodala but when you factor in DG's health concerns... I ask again is Danny Granger really better than Andre Iguodala?

Defensively you could argue they're even (I personally think Iguodala is better), as a playmaker Iguodala blows Granger out of the water, Granger handles the ball more / always has a higher usage rate...

See the threes is what throws that off. Look at adjusted fg% when you see a guy who contributes that much from downtown.

I like Iggy. I do think Granger is a lot better...despite his fragile nature. But if you are senidng out Devin who is even more fragile....hard to really complain. Granger is absolutely a go to scorer...one of the best around.

Having said that....I am holding out for Paul. That's the guy I really want.

[enetric]

I don't get the Granger hype, is he even better than Iguodala?

IMHO, absolutely and it's not even close.
Granger is much closer to Melo then he is to Iggy.
If Granger wasn't injured all the time(big IF), I think he would have dragged one of the worst rosters in the league to the playoffs kicking and screaming the last 2 seasons.

I was going to go there too. I do think he is a lot closer to Melo...and honestly...Melo is overrated as it is. He had some what of a breakthrough season this past year from what I saw....but people have been jocking him since day one...and my CUSE loyalty aside...overall there are things about Melo that dissapoint. I mean...yes he socres with ease. But with his size..do ONE thing great. Just one. Become a rebounding force. Or...add a three point shot. Become a better playmaker for others. He shows flashes but he gets spoken about like he is on that Lebron, Wade, Kobe level...and he isnt close. Granger to me....yes....similar class with Melo....I agree.

I see Iggy and JJ as comparable...but there are appects of Iggy's game I just like better.

[enetric]

Back to the topic... Is Granger the kind of player that will get us over the hump? The kind of player we can mortgage our future (some said 2 1st rd picks but i assume it'll be protected)? Is he one of the big players we need, giving up talents and picks, and say "now we can win a championship"?

If we go back to the other thread and find where Granger is amongst the top 20 player in the NBA right now, i think in average he didnt even hit the top 15, and some didnt even have him as their top 20 including me.

This is a tough scenerio and i think we're not alone, same goes with most teams, because we really need a superstar but most superstars cannot be had. And if we go back to Prokhorov's statement about winning a championship in 5 years, he's really gonna have to open his wallet and overpay.

My old perception when i hear fans say "oh, not Scola because he's getting older and he's not gonna make much of a difference and his salary will just add up to our cap" was yeah, we better not do that and give the young guys a chance and maybe they'll get better in 2 years time. But, for me, things have changed, i think this is not the right time to play conservative and we have to go all out and show that we mean business. Im sorry, i think im losing patience esp. when i think of top players we need to get and realize that its not gonna be easy.

For me, with the staff we have in place and better, younger players, and still a weak East, we will still make the playoffs regardless. I dont know guys... I know, in my mind that we are building the right way but part of me wants to just go all out and see what happens. I know its so easy to say that but the consequences may become worse than what the Knicks experienced.

Im starting to think that the more we wait, the less chances of gettng a superstar without parting with the players we believe in like Lopez.

But with the Lakers and now Heat st up as they are...what is over the hump? Making the playoffs? Being a contender? If its contender...there isnt one single player left in the NBA that can do thatg for us. We need to add TWO guys of a high caliber to do that...and retain one of Favors or Brook...and HOPE we pick the right one to be ANOTHER big piece. Brook seems like the one right now...but what about 3 years from now?

Is there a way to get Paul and Granger? Paul and Melo? And keep one of those big men? That is the only way we get to the top level now.

[HotShots]

Is there a way to get Paul and Granger? Paul and Melo? And keep one of those big men? That is the only way we get to the top level now.

Thats all we can hope for now. Those 3 players. Everyone else is off the market. Otherwise build thru the draft like Oklahoma City. There is no other option.

[enetric]

And after thinking about it? I expect Melo to take the extension from Denver. I think if you can grab Granger whie still keeping the pieces and cap space NO might want in a Paul deal...I would do it.

[Lamak]

I don't believe we need to make a move to contend now, because we are already in contention for the 8th or 7th seed depending on our play. We should play the season with what we have, but if Paul becomes available make the deal. (Hopefully Harris/Favors/2 Future 1st (2012/2013) picks for Paul/Okeafor). Then we can build around Paul and Lopez. Tank the rest of the season and draft best available.

[deviljets7]

Is there a way to get Paul and Granger? Paul and Melo? And keep one of those big men? That is the only way we get to the top level now.

Honestly, I don't see the pieces being there to add 2 guys like that via trade.

As for a Paul/Melo combo, while it is still a long shot, I'll throw out this two-part trade.
Part 1: The remaining cap space for Peja
Part 2: Devin, Favors and TWill for Paul and Songalia

Part 1 puts NJ at the cap and allows NJ to make a trade with the 25% rule (allowing them to get Songalia). Obviously this leaves NJ with an absolutely putrid PF rotation, but in terms of 2011/12 the deal is nearly cap-neutral, putting yourself in line for if not Melo, making a big RFA offer to Horford.