Andrea isn't a C - But what is a C?

[DonYon]

There is no definitive to describe the roles of each position. Every team will have a different role for their center, depending on the team's style of play. Bargnani is a match up nightmare for just about every center in the league on the offensive end. His lack of presence on the defensive end wouldn't be such a big issue if for example we had a very good post defending PF or even a SF, but the raptors haven't had that. As long as the skill sets in the line up end up being balanced there is no clear definition of any position.

[appel]

Well, the only thing I would concern is Bargs doesn't help on D enough. I have been constantly using the Wade example, where Wade zoom pass Bargs and Bargs notice after the fact [when Wade is up for the dunk]...

Chandler will not allow that, Dampier will not allow that...you get the point.

The video was this?
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AICwYWuzSPw[/youtube]

I'm curious, where is this action?

[AH-1 Cobra]

something that always bothers me when criticizing andrea is, "he's not playing in the post enough. omg i watched those italy games and he's still taking jumpshots." well **** yeah... bargnani should be adding to his game not freaking changing it completely just to satisfy the need for a "traditional post up center." he was drafted because of his multitude of skills, there's no reason he should eliminate them from his game.

he can shoot the 3, and he should keep shooting it when he's open. he can shoot off the dribble and drive by his man, so he should keep doing it. and he is making an effort to post up when he can. so what else are you expecting? people complain about his lack of improvement in his game... what else do you want him to add? there are centers out there who can ONLY play with their back to the basket. you want bargs to be like these guys? yet, he has developed a back to the basket game and has a face up game with it, yet this is somehow a problem? andrea should keep doing what he does because that's what gives him an advantage. what he really needs to improve on is consistency and conditioning which i think go hand in hand. bosh didn't have a back to the basket game at all, his entire game was drive or shoot the jumper. yet that's how he made his living because he was consistent. bargnani has an even greater array of scoring options, he just needs to be consistent.

I think most of the concerns stem from the other side of the ball. At least it does for me.

+100 with Boogie
I'm not too concern with his def either, since his 1-1 D is really not that bad. He can guard 90% C, 75% PF, and some slower SF. Bosh was poor with help D too. So it was really bad when the two played def togetehr. Is someone like Garbo really that hard to find?!

[DasKoo]

If we had picked Rudy Gay instead of Bargs we would've been a perennial playoff team.

[/green font]

[dillio]

C) Bargs was a bad first pick?
He was error? Maybe (atually i prefer ehe was drafted from another team)
But i think he must be one of the first 3 picks anyway
Was your error? Maybe
But you're searching a bigman
If you don't pick Bargs you will pick for sure LMA (and that was the Bosh's desire too) in best case
Worst case Shelden Williams, NEVER Roy!
What happen if you pick LMA?
After 2 year somebody (bosh or LMA) must be traded because that frontline (Bosh-LMA) can't defend on my bigfather and my bigmother (not the best frontline of my family)

If we had picked Rudy Gay instead of Bargs we would've been a perennial playoff team.

Rudy Gay's garbage, he doesn't even rebound the ball better than Bargs and you guys are complaining that Bargs doesn't rebound hes also a crappy shot blocker and his 3 point efficiency isn't any better, to be honest we haven't seen Barg's potential yet so I don't how you can already come to the assumption that you'd rather pickup gay.

Why should a guy that's a SF be a better rebounder/shot blocker than our starting C? I don't follow your logic.

[elmer_yuck]

Bargnani has already had 4 years in the NBA. How long does it take someone to learn something? 4 years is a long time. I don't expect his rebounding or his help defense to improve. He is what he is. I hope this season will finally put an end to all the excuses.
He's just not that good. An average player, best suited as a 6th man.
Now that BC has finally discovered the importance of athleticism and defense, I hope he'll unload this overrated bum. But we all know that's not going to happen.

[DasKoo]

Should we start a new thread about Reggie's D...

that's almost like starting a new thread about AB's smile.

i.e., neither exists.

[Truthrising]

Rudy Gay's garbage, he doesn't even rebound the ball better than Bargs and you guys are complaining that Bargs doesn't rebound hes also a crappy shot blocker and his 3 point efficiency isn't any better, to be honest we haven't seen Barg's potential yet so I don't how you can already come to the assumption that you'd rather pickup gay.

Why should a guy that's a SF be a better rebounder/shot blocker than our starting C? I don't follow your logic.

How can you come to the conclusion that Gay would be better for the team when we haven't seen the full potential of bargnani?

[SDM]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that "Bargnani can't play defense" is code for "he's a poor rebounder, so he's poor defensively". If this is the case, he's a pretty good shotblocker for a guy who parks his ass at the three point line.

[dillio]

Rudy Gay's garbage, he doesn't even rebound the ball better than Bargs and you guys are complaining that Bargs doesn't rebound hes also a crappy shot blocker and his 3 point efficiency isn't any better, to be honest we haven't seen Barg's potential yet so I don't how you can already come to the assumption that you'd rather pickup gay.

Why should a guy that's a SF be a better rebounder/shot blocker than our starting C? I don't follow your logic.

How can you come to the conclusion that Gay would be better for the team when we haven't seen the full potential of bargnani?

Because we've needed a skilled athletic 3 more than we've needed a jump shooting C the last 4 years.

[Truthrising]

Why should a guy that's a SF be a better rebounder/shot blocker than our starting C? I don't follow your logic.

How can you come to the conclusion that Gay would be better for the team when we haven't seen the full potential of bargnani?

Because we've needed a skilled athletic 3 more than we've needed a jump shooting C the last 4 years.

It's an ingenious move in BC's part that he drafted a PF knowing the fact Bosh could depart after his contract was over and plus it's better draft based on talent than team needs. Gay is more of chucker than a player that would resort to playing teamball as well.

[dillio]

How can you come to the conclusion that Gay would be better for the team when we haven't seen the full potential of bargnani?

Because we've needed a skilled athletic 3 more than we've needed a jump shooting C the last 4 years.

It's an ingenious move in BC's part that he drafted a PF knowing the fact Bosh could depart after his contract was over and plus it's better draft based on talent than team needs. Gay is more of chucker than a player that would resort to playing teamball as well.

It's an ingenious move to draft a PF just in case his perennial all-star PF left in 4 years? Not to mention the ROY runner-up PF we also had on the roster. Your logic is strange my friend.

[Truthrising]

Because we've needed a skilled athletic 3 more than we've needed a jump shooting C the last 4 years.

It's an ingenious move in BC's part that he drafted a PF knowing the fact Bosh could depart after his contract was over and plus it's better draft based on talent than team needs. Gay is more of chucker than a player that would resort to playing teamball as well.

It's an ingenious move to draft a PF just in case his perennial all-star PF left in 4 years? Not to mention the ROY runner-up PF we also had on the roster. Your logic is strange my friend.

that's why your not a GM my friend..leave it to the people (BC&friends) who knows what they're doing.

[Indeed]

Why should a guy that's a SF be a better rebounder/shot blocker than our starting C? I don't follow your logic.

How can you come to the conclusion that Gay would be better for the team when we haven't seen the full potential of bargnani?

Because we've needed a skilled athletic 3 more than we've needed a jump shooting C the last 4 years.

Moon, no?
Hedo, no?

Who ever we drafted, he will not get the ball/touches.
Even DeRozan and Weems had limited touches last year. Until Bosh got hurt, and Weems scored like 22 on a night.

Obviously, Bargnani is not a bad choice, as he can play off the ball and as a spot up shooter, who can defend his position. I don't see a difference even we have Iggy instead of Bargnani. We are not going to the playoffs as long as most of our players are under utilized (from JO, Marion, Hedo, they are all under utilized, limited touches).

[plainballing]

Well, the only thing I would concern is Bargs doesn't help on D enough. I have been constantly using the Wade example, where Wade zoom pass Bargs and Bargs notice after the fact [when Wade is up for the dunk]...

Chandler will not allow that, Dampier will not allow that...you get the point.

The video was this?
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AICwYWuzSPw[/youtube]

I'm curious, where is this action?

I cannot recall exactly when...but more like 1:12 of this clip. But with Wade speeding toward the hoops and Bargs walk toward his man (on the right baseline). So he's basically walking away from the basket with Wade soaring for a dunk...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_4qk5q0JzY[/youtube]

[Double Helix]

Looking at what Rudy Gay asked for and received in free agency, I'm actually glad we didn't get him. That contract is worse than Andre Iguodala's and everybody's always complaining about how bad AI's is because he's not a true franchise batman type.

Rudy Gay's max contract is going to be like Rashard Lewis' contract is now... WAY too much for what he gives you on the court. I actually think Iggy's passing and versatility make him a much better SF than Gay so if we had offered Rudy Gay a max contract (and if we didn't he'd have left) we'd be in an even worse situation financially than we are now.

I'll take Andrea Bargnani for the next 5 years at 10 million/per over Gay and his max contract. We can actually add another max contract talent to Andrea. We couldn't have done that if we had Gay.

More food for thought: Gay's efficiency has actually dropped the past two seasons in a row.

[gerrit4]

Looking at what Rudy Gay asked for and received in free agency, I'm actually glad we didn't get him. That contract is worse than Andre Iguodala's and everybody's always complaining about how bad AI's is because he's not a true franchise batman type.

Rudy Gay's max contract is going to be like Rashard Lewis' contract is now... WAY too much for what he gives you on the court.

I'll take Andrea Bargnani for the next 5 years at 10 million/per over Gay and his max contract.

Good point. I agree. Personally I'd take Igoudala any day over Rudy gay and I think he's getting paid less. For a guy who's constantly considered overpaid, I guess that says something about Rudy.

[dillio]

How can you come to the conclusion that Gay would be better for the team when we haven't seen the full potential of bargnani?

Because we've needed a skilled athletic 3 more than we've needed a jump shooting C the last 4 years.

Moon, no?
Hedo, no?

Who ever we drafted, he will not get the ball/touches.
Even DeRozan and Weems had limited touches last year. Until Bosh got hurt, and Weems scored like 22 on a night.

Obviously, Bargnani is not a bad choice, as he can play off the ball and as a spot up shooter, who can defend his position. I don't see a difference even we have Iggy instead of Bargnani. We are not going to the playoffs as long as most of our players are under utilized (from JO, Marion, Hedo, they are all under utilized, limited touches).

Moon? Is that supposed to be an argument against us needing a skilled athletic 3 when Bargs was drafted? We were so desperate for some athleticism at the wings that we STARTED A D-LEAGUER! Hedo was signed as a band-aid. If we had a legit 3, the Hedo catastrophe would have been avoided and we would've been able to get even deeper. Think about it... if we had Rudy Gay, the Marion trade never happens, the Hedo signing doesn't happen, the CV for TJ trade may or may not happen, etc, etc. It's beating on a dead horse but the Bargs' pick had an immense trickle-down effect on the subsequent moves over the past 4 years, most of which didn't end up working out as well as we'd hoped.

[Double Helix]

Looking at what Rudy Gay asked for and received in free agency, I'm actually glad we didn't get him. That contract is worse than Andre Iguodala's and everybody's always complaining about how bad AI's is because he's not a true franchise batman type.

Rudy Gay's max contract is going to be like Rashard Lewis' contract is now... WAY too much for what he gives you on the court.

I'll take Andrea Bargnani for the next 5 years at 10 million/per over Gay and his max contract.

Good point. I agree. Personally I'd take Igoudala any day over Rudy gay and I think he's getting paid less. For a guy who's constantly considered overpaid, I guess that says something about Rudy.

I guess I was editing my post while you wrote this because I included some of the same thoughts you just did. I prefer Iggy too.

Brandon Roy is the only player I sit and wonder... "Hmmm, what if?" about becuase it's not like Aldridge is some world beating franchise superstar either. And nobody was considering Rondo anywhere near the top 5 back then.

[theDEATH]

He doesn't rebound or protect the paint, nor does he provide any low-post offense. I don't care if he doesn't have many post moves, when you're 7' and 260 lbs. you can get in there and bang bodies, fight for offensive rebounds, and try to finish. Worst case scenario is you get blocked, but more often than not you're going to get fouled, put the opposing bigs in foul trouble, and get easy points at the line. That's the big thing, he has the talent and size, but he doesn't have the desire.

Who cares how he gets his points as long as he gets them? Him sticking to the 3pt line actually gives some of our players with not-so-much range (looking at DD/Weems/JJ) take it to the rim and do their thing. Bargnani's BIGGEST problem, always and still has been is REBOUNDING and IMO, because of that we shouldn't have him running as a C exclusively. The SF thing a few years ago was a catastrophe, but it really is all about match-ups; we could have the guy as almost a Lamar Odom jack-of-all-trades type player and plug him into the spot where we won't get burnt the most.