We need a real PF

[Wormwood74]

OK, follow along with me...

If we get a starting PF, then and Frye are our centers, X and Warrick are our PFs. That leaves:

SF: Hedo/Hill/Dudley
SG: JRich/ Childress

If we pick up a good center who is intended to back up Lopez, then Frye becomes our starter at PF, and Warrick comes off the bench, leaving the same rotation problem described above.

Basically, any situation which moves Hedo back to his natural SF position results in a log jam where some deserving player gets completely screwed on minutes.

[carey]

Basically, any situation which moves Hedo back to his natural SF position results in a log jam where some deserving player gets completely screwed on minutes.

Yes. We have 5 swingmen (6 if you count Dragic because he sometimes plays with Nash not exclusively behind him) and 4 spots. It'll be great once one of them is inured for a significant amount of time. Until that happens, I predict some unhappy campers.

[JohnVancouver]

He is only $3million, less cost than Warrick. Les, if you had seen Summer League you would know Lawal, while looking good, is not ready to be consistent unless he does significantly more upgrading to his game over the summer.

Richardson would never have been said to have a winning attitude prior to coming here, great talent yes, but not a winning attitude. When you are the #1 or #2 option but have never taken your team anywhere is prior years, then that would certainly be in question. What you are referring to is competitiveness, and that is where the "winning attitude" comes from. Wilcox has never one before, and may not be super-competitive, but he can bang down low on the offensive end, and I don't think his defense is workse than Amare's from a man on man perpective.

I disagree. He showed he had a winning attitude when he killed the Mavs in 06-07. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I would rather take a wait and see approach, then sign Chris Wilcox.

My acquaintance with Wilcox goes back to when he was with the Sonics but he impressed me then - i watched the bulk of their games on KIRO 7. Not sure what happened to him when he ended up in NY - was he just one fo those guys that D'Antoni said nice things about and then never played?

[SideSwipe]

For $3mil, I would probably take a run at him, JV, but Les and Worm think not. They are still looking for J-Rich trade partners, which I can understand, but Wilcox, might be just good enough to keep J-Rich and his expiring around.

[DirtyDez]

Serge Ibaka for Dudley and rights to Collison (the 60th pick)? You'd have to give it serious consideration. He has a very nice mid-range game, and is developing into a very solid rebounder and defender.

More like Dudley/Clark + 1st for Ibaka (which i'm fine with). I love Duds but lets be honest, if we have a chance to get a player who can dominate the paint for the next 10 years we do it. Ibaka + Lopez is just ridicolous paint ownage. The guy had 7 blocks in 1 game vs LA in the playoffs plus he's athletic and can run the floor. Thunder still hang up the phone because they know what he'll become. Presti would never break up Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka.

Bottom line is we need a legit PF or a decent backup C like Oberto. Lopez has proven to be injury-prone we're gonna need some help.

[KJ7]

I remember being extremely impressed with Ibaka in a game against us last season epsec with his play on Amare ... for a guy that big he can seriously move. Don't think he quite has Amare's hops but he's just as quick uses his body better.

Like you said I just don't see them giving him up. They sure as hell aren't just going to throw in Collison. Just cos he's a 2nd round pick doesn't mean didly-squat! Boozer and Arenas were 2nd rounders from memory. They got an absolute steal and they're not just gonna throw him into the deal. With Paul's health a concern he is going to prove a very cheap reliable back-up for them this season.

I don't understand people wanting to use our TPE either. There is absolutely no point getting even deeper when we'll be struggling to distribute mins. If anything we should be going the other way and trying to get quality over quantity by packaging a few players together (and yes I acknowledge that's not gonna be easy but I'm willing to wait until the deadline to see which teams are desperate).

[MrMiyagi]

They sure as hell aren't just going to throw in Collison. Just cos he's a 2nd round pick doesn't mean didly-squat! Boozer and Arenas were 2nd rounders from memory. They got an absolute steal and they're not just gonna throw him into the deal. With Paul's health a concern he is going to prove a very cheap reliable back-up for them this season.

I think he meant Dwayne Collins, "Mr. Irrelevant" that we drafted this year, not Darren Collison from the Hornets, he went 21st overall in the 2009 draft.

Serge Ibaka for Dudley and rights to Collison (the 60th pick)? You'd have to give it serious consideration. He has a very nice mid-range game, and is developing into a very solid rebounder and defender.

[KJ7]

They sure as hell aren't just going to throw in Collison. Just cos he's a 2nd round pick doesn't mean didly-squat! Boozer and Arenas were 2nd rounders from memory. They got an absolute steal and they're not just gonna throw him into the deal. With Paul's health a concern he is going to prove a very cheap reliable back-up for them this season.

I think he meant Dwayne Collins, "Mr. Irrelevant" that we drafted this year, not Darren Collison from the Hornets, he went 21st overall in the 2009 draft.

Serge Ibaka for Dudley and rights to Collison (the 60th pick)? You'd have to give it serious consideration. He has a very nice mid-range game, and is developing into a very solid rebounder and defender.

My bad.

Don't know why but I always confuse players from the Hornets and Thunder ... don't ask me why!

[DRK]

Not to darken the mood here, but Ibaka was actually picked with the Sun's pick, which was involved in the Kurt Thomas trade.

Ibaka is going to be a 16,11, 2 (blocks) guy. No way he's going anyway. Dudley or not. I remember watching a regular season game last season, Spurs v Thunder. Ibaka had a crazy block on T.D in like the last 20 seconds. It was mad.

[Frank Lee]

As far as all that logjam talk.... currently we have a 10 man team... essentially 2 units/lines and a closing squad. I can see 10 guys comfortable with 20+ minutes per night. Read that article that JohnnyVC posted elsewhere. It has been my thinking all along.

Additional player wise.....

Take a look a that Fesenko kid from Utah. To me, he is exactly the kind of player we should consider. Young, big, mobile,outside shot... and ready to contribute after a couple of yrs of observation. Utah is very close to the tax level and may find themselves a bit cautious to go over. I dont know how their new ownership is approaching money issues.

I think we should get a young c ... then if rebounding and defense become an issue, look for a JRich deal mid season. Dont rock the boat now with another key player departure. I am completely comfortable with Frye or Tglu as a starting PF. This will be a very unconventional team.... why fight it?

I guess it still comes down to the thought of adding a starting PF or a back up center. Good to have such versatility.

PS... AK would be an interesting swap.... Utah is a little thin at SG.

[rordog]

Anyone ever think about Juwan Howard or someone like that, Suns should have looked at him while he was still out there, a veteran that would have signed for not much at all? he gives great defence and rebounding and would just give solid minutes, personally I think he would work a lot better than Warrick who as many people have said isn't a true PF.. but you would have to have Warrick at the 4 position over Turk, it restricts Turk from doing what he usually does... or did at Orlando, which is making plays and bringing other players into the game while creating his own shots. the line up will still be good

nash
richardson
hill/turk?? dont know which
warrick
lopez

[bimmer_class]

Anyone ever think about Juwan Howard or someone like that, Suns should have looked at him while he was still out there, a veteran that would have signed for not much at all? he gives great defence and rebounding and would just give solid minutes, personally I think he would work a lot better than Warrick who as many people have said isn't a true PF.. but you would have to have Warrick at the 4 position over Turk, it restricts Turk from doing what he usually does... or did at Orlando, which is making plays and bringing other players into the game while creating his own shots. the line up will still be good

nash
richardson
hill/turk?? dont know which
warrick
lopez

(censored)

Please see the PM regarding this and your other post.

Thanks,
Miklo

[Wormwood74]

Frank,

After watching all the Suns summer league games, we're 11 deep.

1. Nash
2. Dragic
3. JRich
4. Childress
5. Hill
6. Turkoglu
7. Dudley
8. Lopez
9. Warrick
10. Frye
11. Lawal

Someone is going to get screwed on minutes. Best guess is it's Warrick losing out his rotation minutes to Lawal. Dudley's going to be in a hurt locker too if Hedo sees a lot of minutes at the 3.

[Frank Lee]

I suppose then you disagree with a two line up system that guarantees fresh legs on the court at all times ? Is it so unlikely that 10 guys could see minutes in the first half ? Or even quarter ?

I think 10 will player nightly, and they will know it daily. Gentry can manage the minutes to keep every one involved... all year.

I am not counting on Lawal for anything, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ran some games in the D-League. In all honesty, I hope we dont need him for much.

You're mountaining this molehill Worm.

[Biscotti]

I am warming up to the idea of a Shawn Marion-esque player at the 4. (And whoever said Josh Childress is like Shawn Marion...hasn't watched Josh Childress).

Kirilenko would be a good fit. (Makes sense for both teams...J-Rich for AK47)
Gerald Wallace would be awesome. (doubt we have the pieces)
Josh Smith would excel with a point guard. (would need a third team to make it happen)

I know I am going to get FLAMED for this....but there has never been a better trade to get value for Jared Dudley. J-Rich and Dudley could net us a very good player.

If we trade J-Rich....we still need a shooter at SG. (Dudley can not play SG...he is slower than Larry Bird).

[Wormwood74]

Here's the problem...no, I don't like the platoon system. It's not how you build a championship level team. Three big stars, some great role players (Artest, Odom, Bynum), and you'll look strong enough you'll pick up some cheap veteran talent along the way.

As for Lawal, Warrick has killed every team he's played for while he was on the court. I expect nothing different this time around.

[ma_falaa_50]

since CP3 is asking out of NO does this mean David west is available?

[Christine-In-AZ]

Here's the problem...no, I don't like the platoon system. It's not how you build a championship level team.

How to we know this? Has any NBA team ever constructed and then played a team with 10 or 11 relatively equal contributers? (Nash, Turk and JRich being top minute grabbers) ...I don't think so, but if I'm wrong, someone cite an example.

Three big stars, some great role players (Artest, Odom, Bynum), and you'll look strong enough you'll pick up some cheap veteran talent along the way.

Yep, that's the standard blue print, but the Suns have no possibility of sketching out such a three star blue print.

I'm really looking foward to this "outside the norm" roster rotation/season plan. In all likelihood it won't net the Suns a title due to the top heavy Lakers & Heat, but it'll net many wins, color us unique/innovative...and best of all, it should put the Suns in the best postion to play David to the Goliaths. The "critics choice".

Back in '04 'til '07 the SSOL Suns were great, but more importantly, they were different. It's an exaggeration, but the SSOL Suns were almost playing a different game from the rest of the teams. And that difference did them very well until so many other teams started borrowing and implementing.

10-11 Deep, platoon substitutions, extreme use of zone D...not small ball or tall ball, something new and different, where the old norms don't apply.

I'm not sure, but it seems like they are putting together something original. I hope it's true and I'm looking forward to seeing it play out.

[Frank Lee]

Here's the problem...no, I don't like the platoon system.....

I'm not debating the style, just anticipating it.

.... It's not how you build a championship level team....

May be so... so see Chris above for solace.... not everybody hates him

As for Lawal, Warrick has killed every team he's played for while he was on the court. I expect nothing different this time around.

I understand the Warrick skepticism. Lawal will get minutes but they will be Hakim's to lose. I dont think he'll be as gawdawful as you are predicting. Sometimes numbers lie I hope you are wrong about Skinny.

[Biscotti]

Warrick will be okay. I think he will do just fine. I am concerned about rebounding. I still think there are moves on the horizon.