1975 -- Congratulations to Snakebites and the NY KNICKS

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Re: 1975 playoffs--WRITEUPS IN, Judging today until Sunday 7-25 

Post#21 » by TMACFORMVP » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:31 pm

Nets v. Knicks

I'd like to say the both of you built terrific teams, and at this point, after reading the writeups don't have a real clue towards who will win this matchup.

I think the Nets did an underrated job in building a team around Erving. Miller4ever tried to replicate a team similar to that of the 83 Sixers squad that won the championship. At the guard spot he has tremendous depth, Taylor one of my favorite guards from the ABA, and guys like Goodrich/Bing/Scott being three of the top scoring guards of this era. Defensively though, aside from Taylor, it can be exploited, and the Knicks boast an impressive guard rotation themselves. I feel like Chenier should have got more minutes, reducing Monroe's, for more a defensive balance with similar offensive production, but overall, I think the Knicks backcourt would be more productive because of Frazier's all rounded-ness.

The thing for Moses in this scenario is as Snakebites notes, he's still very young, an 18 year old rookie in the ABA. He'd be going up against an in peak form Bob Lanier whom was arguably at the top of his game. I don't think Moses was as advanced a defender or as polished an offensive player at this point in his career. But on the other end of spectrum, Moses did still contribute and at a high level for the Stars. While for the Knicks, starting PF Lucas is also a mere rookie logging over thirty minutes per game as well. The difference between the two is Moses is expected to get the better of, or match the production of Lanier, while Lucas's job is to slow down Kenon. I still think Kenon has his way, but I'd much rather put my money on Lucas getting under Kenon's skin than a young Moses matching the production of Lanier, who was better in nearly every aspect of the game at this point. I remember reading one story that was on Lucas's "Remember the ABA," page:

"I covered the Kentucky Colonels for the Louisville Times and they're as much a part of my happiest days as my family. One memory that stands out: One night at Freedom Hall, Maurice Lucas of the Spirits got under Artis Gilmore's skin. Artis, normally the most gentle of giants, started trying to punch Lucas. Artis had superhuman strength, but he wasn't much of a boxer. His blows were almost slaps. Lucas, one of the league's most feared fighters, backpedaled the length of the court. When he got to the baseline, he planted his feet and hit Artis with a straight right to the jaw. Artis went down in sections. First his knees crumpled, then his waist folded, then his arms flailed and then his trunk and head found the floor. By then, teammates had broken up the fight. Those who knew Artis were shocked and saddened, not that Artis had lost a fight but that he had even been in one.


Anyway, I do like Paultz more than what Snakebites has to offer the bench. He was an underrated rebounder, good shot-blocker, and had a nice mid-range jumper which would keep defenses honest. Like Lanier would do to Moses, Paultz could come in off and the bench, and take bigs out of rebounding position. But when you have Lanier playing 40 MPG, it also comes to question how much Paultz can take advantage of Snake's backups ESPECIALLY when Lucas is his backup center.

Now we come to the point, I can't seem to decide on. The Erving factor. He's most likely the best player in this series, and as he's shown can absolutely dominate a game. Walker was a solid defender, an integral part of those dominant Bull defensive teams (though Van Lier, Love, all got more publicity), but he'll get worked by Erving, plain and simple. Erving in his ABA peak dominated the likes of Bobby Jones in the finals, Walker won't phase him. Then again, it's also not an individual effort, the Knicks have an elite team defense with two post defenders upfront, and an amazing defensive guard like anchor in Frazier in the backcourt.

The question is can Erving against an elite defense do enough to outweigh the edge the Knicks have in the other facets of the game. Honestly speaking, I do think he makes up for things in the backcourt, giving the Nets the perimeter edge (even though as I said, Walker is underrated). But the frontcourt edge would still go to the Knicks.

This is tough...

Small Breakdown:

Rebounding: I DO think it's interesting to note that Moses didn't really have any competition on the boards on his own team. Not that it's a hit against him (since Lanier is a similar case), but a guy like Maurice Lucas still grabbed over 10 boards with Marvin Barnes, and Kenon grabbed his rebounds despite playing with Erving. Nonetheless rebounding is something that generally translates, and Moses would probably out-rebound Lanier. Frazier is an elite guard rebounder, but I think Erving gives the Nets the slight edge here. Edge: Nets

Play-Making/Passing: The Nets have ridiculous play-making guards, all of whom can create their own shots. But none of them, aside from maybe Bing (and I'd argue not), are all really moreso scorers for themselves. I like Frazier more as a floor general more than anyone else on the Nets. What I love about Erving though is his ability to dominate a game without having the need for the ball in his hands. I do think, in this regard though, Lanier is the best passing big man, he's accustomed to double teams, was a good passer, while Moses for his career generally was never the greatest post passer, and I wouldn't expect it to be better as a rookie. Edge: Slight edge Knicks.

Offense: This one is tough, Erving is the best perimeter player in this, but I feel, due to the defensive edge, the Knicks have the edge in the backcourt offensively, the Nets might potentially in the frontcourt. Edge: Wash, possible slight edge to Nets, would say wash

Defense: I think the Nets have underrated defenders, but aside from Erving, mediocre at best. On the flip side, the Knicks have elite defenders at the one, and up-front. Edge: Easily Knicks

I think that's ultimately what it comes down to. When it's this close, I generally tend to go with the better player, but in this regard, I think both teams are comparable enough offensively, that the Knicks defense is better by a margin that it gives them the edge in this matchup. Their post play, overall defense from the inside/outside, and lack of enough defense from the Nets is ultimately what decides the series IMO.

Vote: Knicks

Could have easily gone the other way, and that's why I hate to judge, but since nobody else has, and personally felt bad I couldn't put a writeup in to face one of these guys, felt it was at least an obligation to put a judging in. Hopefully more can come in before the deadline tomorrow.

As for the Colonels v. Celtics matchup, sabas did not put a writeup, and I liked how penbeast addressed the changing of the Celtics identity. Still though, would have been a very interesting matchup IMO, but since I'm not able to see how sabas would counteract penbeast's argument, by default, my vote goes to the Colonels..
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Re: 1975 playoffs--WRITEUPS IN, Judging today until Sunday 7-25 

Post#22 » by BlackIce » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:41 pm

Hurr. I'll have mine up at some point today or early 2morrow mangs.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--WRITEUPS IN, Judging today until Sunday 7-25 

Post#23 » by CellarDoor » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:21 am

I share TMAC's opinions on the Celtics/Colonels. Honestly, this game is pretty heavily handicapped for Pen because he was living in this while I'm just reading :p.


On the Knicks and Nets, I've got to go NY as well...
I think Lanier is going to have a lot of fun in a series against a rookie Moses, and I think Frazier/Lanier provides enough offensive kick in addition to their D to beat out The 7853 Sixets.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#24 » by penbeast0 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:33 pm

KENTUCKY COLONELS (1) v. NEW YORK KNICKS (2)

I think Snakebites did a terrific job of putting together a good team from the shambles of the 1975 Knicks. With no front court players worth keeping, he acquired 3 good ones from the draft plus a top quality backup shooting guard. They complement each other well, with Lucas’s physical play matched with Lanier’s finesse game and all of them competent passers to play in Holtzman’s motion offense.

Unfortunately, Kentucky was able to start from a much easier spot, with the best center in the league this year and at least 3 other quality players. This gives us an advantage at 4 of the 5 positions plus a much stronger bench.

C Artis Gilmore (42mpg) 7’2 16.2reb 2.5ast 23.6pts at .580fg% .696ft% (.615 ts%) + 3.1 blk C Bob Lanier (39mpg) 6’11 12.0reb 4.6ast 24.0pts @.510fg (.559ts%) + 2.1blk
Gilmore was the best center in basketball this year with Kareem’s problems. Lanier is a fine scorer and rebounder but a finesse player and only an average defender. There is a reason that despite his great numbers, he never made an All-NBA team and his Pistons were 27 games under .500 for the 70s, nor did the Bucks improve significantly when they added him. He is Al Jefferson to Artis’s Dwight Howard; more skilled but far less impact. Gilmore scores at the same volume but a much higher efficiency (plus NY has more scoring in it’s starting lineup while Kentucky actually has a bit less); Gilmore rebounds 35% more plus he blocks more shots. Plus Gilmore was a strong physical defender while Lanier could get a bit lazy and of course Gilmore was the Finals MVP while Lanier’s Pistons took another 1st round exit. Clear Advantage KENTUCKY

PF Wes Unseld (34mpg) 6’7 14.8reb 4.1ast 9.2pts at .502fg% 695ft% (.538 ts%)
PF Maurice Lucas (31 mpg) 6’9 10.2reb 3.6ast 12.2pts @ .467fg (.510ts%)
Lucas is a nice complement to Lanier, a strong, physical player who is a willing passer and rebounder that won’t be called on to score a lot. Wes Unseld, however, is a HOF big who does everything that Lucas does and does it better. He rebounds nearly 50% more (despite playing next to Elvin Hayes), passes better, scores a bit less but at a higher efficiency, and plays better defense. And, again, Unseld was captain of the NBA finalist Bullets while Lucas’s Spirits were easily handled by this Kentucky team 4-1 after an upset of the Nets. Clear Advantage KENTUCKY

SF Wil Jones (28 mpg) 6’8 7.2reb 3.0ast 12.6pts on .483fg% .735ft% (.512 ts%)
SF Chet Walker (32mpg) 6’6 5.7reb 2.2ast 19.2pts on .487fg% (.568ts%)
Walker at his peak was a very good player. He teamed with Wil Jones’s backup, Bob Love, for several years in Chicago although observers of the day picked Love for the All-NBA team and All-Defense teams, not Walker. Walker is clearly the better scorer, but both are 4th options on their teams. Wil Jones is much younger and more athletic and provides All-ABA defense; Walker was in his last year before retirement and while he could still score, he was coasting more on defense. Jones is also the better rebounder and passer. Considering they are 4th options, at worst EVEN

SG Ron Boone (38 mpg) 6’2 4.8reb 4.2ast 25.2pts on .491fg% .860ft% (.540ts%)
SG Earl Monroe (36 mpg) 6’3 4.2reb 3.5ast 20.9pts on .457fg (.504ts%)
This may not be the key matchup of the series, but it should be the most fun to watch. Both extremely athletic guards, “The Legend” v. “Black Jesus,” the Ironman v. the Pearl. Again, though, Boon does similar things to Monroe but just does them all a bit better. He scores more and on considerably higher efficiency (notice this theme recurring – the only real advantage NY has is at SF, their 4th option, while our 1st and second options both have clear advantages over their counterparts). Boone also was much more known for his defense than Monroe. Clear edge KENTUCKY

PG Louis Dampier (35 mpg) 6’0 2.5reb 5.4ast 16.8pts on .500fg% .809ft% (.544ts%)
PG Walt Frazier (41 mpg) 6.4 6.0reb 6.1ast 21.5pts on .483fg% (.534ts%)
Here it is, Snakebites’s shining moment, the one advantage his Knick team has. Frazier has the edge in scoring, rebounding, and defense – particularly defense. And yet, while I love Frazier and his game, Dampier was probably the greatest PG to come out of the ABA. Louis is one of the few PGs in the history of the league to ever finish in the top 5 in both assist percentage (5th) and turnover percentage (4th), he is the ABA’s all-time leader in 3pt shots and yet still shot over 50% from 2 point range. Frazier’s defense was mainly on-the-nose defense. If he works on Dampier, Louis rarely gave the ball up or made a mistake and is our 3rd option, mainly as a catch and shoot or pull-up scorer which takes away from Frazier’s strengths plus Boone played in Utah with a weak PG and is used to playmaking, as is Wes Unseld, one of the NBA’s all-time greatest passing bigs. If Frazier is on Boone, however, Dampier has the ball in his hands v. the weaker Monroe and can still work it in to Gilmore, pass to one of our many other weapons (Boone/Jones/Unseld plus Love would again play a big role for more scoring, plus Issel and Van Arsdale are excellent catch and shoot players). Frazier can dominate this matchup but we have too many playmakers and scorers for his defense to dominate this series.

The one who will dominate the series is Gilmore. With Unseld and Jones also being solid shotblockers, New York’s slashing/post-up game is going to run into a lot of obstacles. Frazier was a big post-up guard who liked to work into the lane and shoot, Monroe was a slasher, Walker too . . . but they are going to find a lot more tall trees in the lane than against any of the actual pre-contraction teams. Frazier’s defense will win his individual matchup, Gilmore’s will win the series (and get him the Finals MVP again)

BENCH
And, let’s not forget Kentucky’s strong advantage off the bench.

Lucas was not a high minute player but NY relies on career journeyman Phil Jackson (great coach, mediocre player) where Kentucky’s top rotation big is Dan Issel, a multiple time all-star and 20 ppg scorer with great range who is in the prime of his career.

At forward, Kentucky brings in 2 time All-NBA, 3 time All-Def star Bob Love while New York brings in low scoring, weak rebounding, poor defense (good passer and give them someone who can shoot from outside) Bill Bradley.

And at guard, while Phil Chenier scored in bunches and made the All-NBA team, Dick Van Arsdale was also a good scorer, more efficient and made the All-Defense team in 74 – with all the other scorers out there, this is actually more important to the series than Chenier’s ability to score in volume. Plus, while NY shifts Monroe (only 3.5 ast) to PG, we have another All-Defense, All-ABA in 74 defensive stopper in Teddy “Hound Dog” McLain.

AGAIN, NY HAS AN ADVANTAGE IN ONE MATCHUP, KENTUCKY HAS CLEAR ADVANTAGES IN AT LEAST THREE PLUS A MUCH STRONGER BENCH.

And finally, while Holtzman was a fine coach, Hubie Brown is in the HOF too and is younger and more innovative as the game is rapidly changing away from the one that Holtzman excelled in. Plus, Kentucky had a clear mission to win the title from the front office down. Acquiring Wil Jones to face Erving, Issel volunteering to take a lesser role to let Artis Gilmore be more dominant offensively in Brown’s post offense, Gilmore stepping up throughout the playoffs to be the Finals MVP, Kentucky was all about winning the ring. That, in the end, is the final key.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#25 » by Snakebites » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:22 pm

If I did a "good job" as you say and the gap is as large as you make it sound, then the problem was with this game's initial setup.

Luckily for the fate of this competition, I disagree.

Writeup forthcoming.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#26 » by Snakebites » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:47 pm

Colonels vs Knicks, Final

First, a word about the Colonels in general:

They were a great ABA team. There is no question Penbeast started from a favorable starting point. But it has been a tad overstated.

Their championship run. They deserve recognition for winning it all in the selected year. But while this year was an impressive year for the ABA in terms of player talent and regular season competitiveness, the same cannot be said for the playoffs. Indeed, the Colonels faced NONE of their stiffest competition in this game. The Nuggets, Nets, and Spurs were ALL defeated relatively early in the playoffs, and the Colonels faced TWO sub .500 teams to reach the finals and the solid but not exceptional Pacers in the finals.

Furthermore, Hubie Brown is not in the Hall of Fame as a coach, but rather a Contributor. There people in the HOF for more than one thing, but he's not one of them. He won a championship by beating 2 bad teams and one barely above average team, and then never won another one in a long career in either league. Still a good coach, but I wouldn't put him near the same level as Holzman, particularly not as a rookie coach (which he is in this season).

Defensively: We feel our team matches aptly with the Colonel's offensive attack. While they do have some efficiency, a look up and down the roster reveals that this team's strength is on the other end of the floor. Gilmore is an extremely efficient scorer and a good finisher, but his offensive aresenal is limited. He has no range and lacks a particularly polished post game. While this was quite effective as a primary option in the ABA against weaker opponents in the playoffs, I'm not convinced it can fly in a merged AND contracted setting like this, particularly not with a strong defensive front court opposite to him and little help from his front mate Unseld offensively.

And let there be no mistake about it, Gilmore, despite his limitations, IS the best offensive player on this team. Boone's regular season numbers are impressive, but he played on a very limited Utah team and saw a SHARP 7 percent drop in FG% in the playoffs. He wasn't noted as a great team player at this stage of his career and averaged almost as many turnovers as assists. These issues will be even further compounded by the fact that we will be putting Walt Frazier on him, which should make these issues even more apparent. These issues combined and I fully expect a tag team of Monroe and Chenier, both well noted playoff performers (especially Chenier in the selected year) to be bigger factors in this series. Monroe had a rough 3 games in the playoffs this year, but was generally solid in a supporting capacity throughout his career. Neither Chenier nor Monroe are being called upon to shoulder nearly as much of the weight as Boone is, as he is being called upon to be a true second option and major ball handler.

Looking at the rest of the starting lineup, other issues present themselves. Dampier was a solid pg but wasn't statistically impressive in the selected years. He'll have his hands full on the other end guarding Frazier and is clearly the worst starting guard in this series. The remaining two players, Unseld and Jones, are very limited offensive players, and this makes the job for our capable defense all the easier. Two players without major offensive games will hurt the Colonel's scoring opportunities. Lanier was unjustly characterized as an "average" defender, when he was in fact quite strong and was a very capable shotblocker. The physicality of Lucas was on full display only two seasons later when he was Bill Walton's championship sidekick. Walker has a stupendously easy defensive assignment which he should be more than equal to, and we have the best defensive guard in the league and another capable perimeter defender in Chenier.

We should be able to limit this Colonel's offense, which was not outstanding by ABA standards to being with and didn't see particularly outstanding improvement in the draft. Their limitations in their starting lineup make them easier to guard and negate their advantage in depth.

Offensively: Obviously, what the Colonel's lack in offensive skill and firepower they make up for in defensive prowess. Still, we're fairly confident in our offense, which we feel is among the most versatile in the league. Their star defensive center will have his hands full with Bob Lanier. The Pistons struggled in the selected season, but Lanier proved he was capable of leading winning teams in other years. He is a legitimate offensive player who fits exceptionally well in this setting. He can pass, shoot, and score inside with the best of them, and has impressive efficiency of his own as well. In short, he's no Al Jefferson. He's more skilled offensively than his counterpart by a country mile.

Chet Walker was also the best player on those Bulls teams. The Bulls reached the playoffs every season he was a member of the team, and missed the playoffs both before his arrival and after his departure. Love was better defensively, but Chet Walker was also a hard nosed defender and head and shoulders above Love in scoring and efficiency. He was top 10 in the NBA in PER (along with Lanier (#3) and Frazier (#7) in the selected year and was hardly past his prime (he left the league for personal reasons after this season). He was an efficient offensive player with size and great attacking ability, and should easily have a larger impact on the series than his counterpart. In the backcourt, our team is even more relentless. Chenier will be given a somewhat larger role given his playoff credentials in the selected year, but we will have TWO elite guards pounding the Colonel's small backcourt at all times. Frazier will cut through the 6-0 Dampier like a hot knife through butter and Boone's in for a long night as well with his versatile counterparts.

In short, our defense should be more than equal to the task of limiting the Colonel's efficient but less-than-potent offense, and our offense should be able to score against ANY defense, including this one.

We have a Hall of Fame Coach and a terrific core of fundamentally sound, tough, and unselfish players, and should have enough balance to carry the day.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#27 » by Miller4ever » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:30 pm

Can we vote now?
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#28 » by Snakebites » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:26 am

Gopher it.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#29 » by penbeast0 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:22 pm

REBUTTAL

Colonels vs Knicks, Final

First, a word about the Colonels in general:

They were a great ABA team. There is no question Penbeast started from a favorable starting point. But it has been a tad overstated.

Their championship run. They deserve recognition for winning it all in the selected year. But while this year was an impressive year for the ABA in terms of player talent and regular season competitiveness, the same cannot be said for the playoffs. Indeed, the Colonels faced NONE of their stiffest competition in this game. The Nuggets, Nets, and Spurs were ALL defeated relatively early in the playoffs, and the Colonels faced TWO sub .500 teams to reach the finals and the solid but not exceptional Pacers in the finals.


You play the guys you face. Both the Nuggets and the Nets were very good teams and were beaten by less talented teams on hot streaks – essentially the same type of team that won the NBA Championship – Kentucky was good enough and consistent enough to overcome this thanks to the dominating play of playoff MVP Artis Gilmore

Furthermore, Hubie Brown is not in the Hall of Fame as a coach, but rather a Contributor. There people in the HOF for more than one thing, but he's not one of them. He won a championship by beating 2 bad teams and one barely above average team, and then never won another one in a long career in either league. Still a good coach, but I wouldn't put him near the same level as Holzman, particularly not as a rookie coach (which he is in this season).

Defensively: We feel our team matches aptly with the Colonel's offensive attack. While they do have some efficiency, a look up and down the roster reveals that this team's strength is on the other end of the floor. Gilmore is an extremely efficient scorer and a good finisher, but his offensive aresenal is limited. He has no range and lacks a particularly polished post game. While this was quite effective as a primary option in the ABA against weaker opponents in the playoffs, I'm not convinced it can fly in a merged AND contracted setting like this, particularly not with a strong defensive front court opposite to him and little help from his front mate Unseld offensively.


Lanier never made the All-NBA team and his teams never achieved that much for exactly the reason that he was NOT a good defensive anchor. He didn’t work hard at it nor did he have particularly good lateral quickness or defensive footwork. Detroit had some solid defenders in their lineup in Curtis Rowe, Eric Money, etc. around Bing and Lanier but just weren’t a good defensive team in the era of the center focused offenses. Detroit’s defensive record for the 70:
1970 Walt Bellamy 5th/17
1971 Rookie Lanier splits time with defensive minded Otto Moore 5th/17
1972 Lanier takes over full time 16/17 (can see Lanier’s defensive impact!)
1973 10th/17
1974 4th/17 (where did this come from?)
1975 17th/18 (this is our year that Snake is relying on!)
1976 12/18
1977 20/22
1978 15/22
1979 18/22
1980 he split time with Kent Benson (21/22) then was dealt to Milwaukee
1982 with Benson (Laimbeer comes in 1982) 7/22 – Benson wasn’t great but was better than Lanier

I think I was wrong to say Lanier was an average center defensively. He was poor and will be abused by Artis Gilmore. It really is Al Jefferson v. Dwight Howard.


And let there be no mistake about it, Gilmore, despite his limitations, IS the best offensive player on this team. Boone's regular season numbers are impressive, but he played on a very limited Utah team and saw a SHARP 7 percent drop in FG% in the playoffs. He wasn't noted as a great team player at this stage of his career and averaged almost as many turnovers as assists. These issues will be even further compounded by the fact that we will be putting Walt Frazier on him, which should make these issues even more apparent. These issues combined and I fully expect a tag team of Monroe and Chenier, both well noted playoff performers (especially Chenier in the selected year) to be bigger factors in this series. Monroe had a rough 3 games in the playoffs this year, but was generally solid in a supporting capacity throughout his career. Neither Chenier nor Monroe are being called upon to shoulder nearly as much of the weight as Boone is, as he is being called upon to be a true second option and major ball handler.


Monroe had a worse series than Boone but 1 series isn’t really enough to judge them in either case. Boone v. Frazier won’t be a shutout for Frazier whose strength was harassing the primary ballhandler. Putting him on Boone weakens his impact quite a bit; Boone will still score on him enough and Dampier will have no problems with the weak defensive Earl Monroe who doesn’t have the quicks to keep up with him. Remember, Kentucky won the whole thing with Dampier as a 15ppg guy with great efficiency as well as great playmaking – compare him to Frazier offensively and you won’t see a lot of difference. Frazier in this year scores more but passes less (and never had the great assist/turnover ratio that made Dampier the best PG in the ABA); and Dampier had years where he scored 20+ rather than the 15 or so he gets here. Chenier does give him a second solid defender, though not up to the standards of Boone/VanArsdale/McLain on the Colonels – but Chenier wasn’t a quick guard and won’t be able to handle Dampier either. We have a large advantage in quickness at both guards and will take advantage of it in the open court plus much better shooting range in the half court game. Monroe worked inside in Holzman’s inside out offense, Frazier did too (Lanier/Lucas/Walker are all inside scorers too – not exactly Reed/DeBusschere/Bradley). Dampier not only shoots 50%+ from 2 but is the ABA’s all-time 3 point leader with great range.

Looking at the rest of the starting lineup, other issues present themselves. Dampier was a solid pg but wasn't statistically impressive in the selected years.

Yes, he was an efficient scorer and terrific playmaker; he just wasn’t a ball dominant gunner

He'll have his hands full on the other end guarding Frazier and is clearly the worst starting guard in this series.
Easily better this year than Monroe – people just don’t realize how good some of the ABA only guys were

The remaining two players, Unseld and Jones, are very limited offensive players, and this makes the job for our capable defense all the easier. Two players without major offensive games will hurt the Colonel's scoring opportunities.
Wil Jones played 8 years as a full time player never scoring less than 10ppg and had a terrific year in the Kentucky offense in terms of efficiency – you don’t need and in fact can’t have 5 20 ppg scorers on the floor at once. And, while Unseld isnt’ a scorer, he will help all our outside scorers with his monstrous picks clearing Dampier, Boone, Van Arsdale, Jones, and Love for open jumpers – [plus we still have Dan Issel coming off the bench too!

Lanier was unjustly characterized as an "average" defender, when he was in fact quite strong and was a very capable shotblocker.
True, as shown above, he was more probably called a “poor” defender.
The physicality of Lucas was on full display only two seasons later when he was Bill Walton's championship sidekick.
In this year he is a rookie off one of the most poorly coached me first teams in NBA history where guard Steve Jones said, as I said in my Denver writeup, “No one on the whole team understood the concept of team defense” (paraphrase).
Walker has a stupendously easy defensive assignment which he should be more than equal to,
[b] Bull, Jones was solid offensively 13.5 on .483 on a team with 3 outstanding scorers starting plus Walker is aging and was never a great defender though above average in his prime
and we have the best defensive guard in the league and another capable perimeter defender in Chenier.

We should be able to limit this Colonel's offense, which was not outstanding by ABA standards to being with and didn't see particularly outstanding improvement in the draft. Their limitations in their starting lineup make them easier to guard and negate their advantage in depth.


Offense is more than getting a bunch of gunners and throwing the ball out there. We added Ron Boone, a spectacularly athletic shooter who could get his own shot and was much more efficient than Bird Averitt to improve our outside shooting and athleticism plus Unseld’s ability to set picks and pass make the whole offense run much more efficiently. If we had just wanted shooters, we’d have started career 20ppg scorers Bob Love and Dan Issel but you need to look at roles and how the offense fits together. We improved the offense considerably without taking shots away from Artis Gilmore or crowding the lane with guys who all need to play near the hoop – a problem New York will be facing with their starters. We just set it up to work as a team, rather than playground.

Offensively: Obviously, what the Colonel's lack in offensive skill and firepower they make up for in defensive prowess. Still, we're fairly confident in our offense, which we feel is among the most versatile in the league. Their star defensive center will have his hands full with Bob Lanier. The Pistons struggled in the selected season, but Lanier proved he was capable of leading winning teams in other years. He is a legitimate offensive player who fits exceptionally well in this setting. He can pass, shoot, and score inside with the best of them, and has impressive efficiency of his own as well. In short, he's no Al Jefferson. He's more skilled offensively than his counterpart by a country mile.


Lanier’s years in Detroit as a full time player were not winning years, Detroit was 27 games under .500 in his tenure. He did later go to Milwaukee though he was aging and not as impressive. The Bucks before Lanier were a consistent playoff team but couldn’t get over the top and get to the finals. They were better with Lanier (more due to Sidney Moncrief emerging as a star) but still couldn’t get over the hump.

Chet Walker was also the best player on those Bulls teams. The Bulls reached the playoffs every season he was a member of the team, and missed the playoffs both before his arrival and after his departure. Love was better defensively, but Chet Walker was also a hard nosed defender and head and shoulders above Love in scoring and efficiency. He was top 10 in the NBA in PER (along with Lanier (#3) and Frazier (#7) in the selected year and was hardly past his prime (he left the league for personal reasons after this season). He was an efficient offensive player with size and great attacking ability, and should easily have a larger impact on the series than his counterpart. In the backcourt, our team is even more relentless. Chenier will be given a somewhat larger role given his playoff credentials in the selected year, but we will have TWO elite guards pounding the Colonel's small backcourt at all times. Frazier will cut through the 6-0 Dampier like a hot knife through butter and Boone's in for a long night as well with his versatile counterparts. In short, our defense should be more than equal to the task of limiting the Colonel's efficient but less-than-potent offense, and our offense should be able to score against ANY defense, including this one.


Walker’s PER was consistently better than Love’s but if you look at the judgement of their contemporaries, to say he was head and shoulders above Love is silly. Between 71 and 75, Love averaged about 23ppg to Walker’s 21, got ALL the defensive awards and was named to the All-NBA team twice – Walker made no All-NBA teams in this era. So, even when our reserve SF is in the game, he has the advantage over Walker. Jones, our starter, matches Walker in efficiency, with all the scorers on NY he still gets his 10+ where Walker will be getting a LOT less shots and probably averaging less than 15ppg, AND JONES IS ALSO AN All-Defensive TEAM AWARD WINNER. And Walker is replaced by the weak defense, no rebounding, poor efficiency Bill Bradley. I think Kentucky has a clear advantage at the SF position, particularly defensively which is the key since none of the 4 SFs are primary scoring focuses.

As for the bench, Snake avoids mentioning anyone but Chenier. He also avoids mentioning that we have Dick Van Arsdale who is more efficient and a better defender than Chenier while scoring quite well too. Bradley was a below average NBA player. And, most importantly with Lanier and hot tempered rookie Lucas trying to deal with crafty veteran Wes Unseld and monster physical freak Artis Gilmore; he is very weak off the bench up front with journeyman Phil Jackson whose brains can’t make up for his lack of talent. On the other hand, we come in with perennial All-Star Dan Issel who gives us brains, scoring, and outside shooting as well. We dominate the bench matchup.


We have a Hall of Fame Coach and a terrific core of fundamentally sound, tough, and unselfish players, and should have enough balance to carry the day.


NY's coach who quit a couple of years later saying the players of the era were uncoachable, a talented but soft defensive center, and tries to make up for it by stacking 4 scorers in their starting lineup with only one player, a rookie, who plays without the ball. And, all 5 of them function best near the hoop. Kentucky has a young coach who has had great success with teams form the ABA to the Memphis Grizzlies (their only good season!), much better defense, an offense with more clearly defined roles and greater efficiency, plus a much superior bench.

Frazier either tries to carry the Knicks by himself, posting Dampier despite a crowded lane and great Kentucky help defense and gives up his playmaker role of making the offense go, or they try a balanced offense despite being less efficient overall and weaker defensively. Kentucky in 5-6 with Artis having a big series against the weak defense of Bob Lanier and winning Finals MVP . . . just like in reality.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#30 » by CellarDoor » Mon Aug 2, 2010 6:48 pm

Going to judge this either during work today, or when I get back from bball tonight. Either way, by the end of the day.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#31 » by CellarDoor » Tue Aug 3, 2010 1:28 pm

sorry, I crashed. Finishing reading now.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#32 » by CellarDoor » Tue Aug 3, 2010 1:50 pm

I'm going to vote with Snakebites on this one. I'm not buying what Pen's selling on Lanier. At all. Other than setting some nice screens, Unseld isn't going to have an appreciably different impact on these games than Lucas. And Kentucky's first option is down low with Unseld and not deriving any benefit. There's also a pair of playoff-performing guards waiting for their chance to go at these Colonels. While Kentucky's bench is most definitely better, but other than Phil Jackson, there's not a lot of big minute players I'm worried about thanks to a short-ish rotation..
Snakebite ( :P ) in 7.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#33 » by Miller4ever » Thu Aug 5, 2010 7:29 am

Knicks. I think that the Colonels have a better regular season lineup (or on-paper) but in the Finals, Frazier could possibly be the best player in the matchup.
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Re: 1975 playoffs--Finals -- Writeups due by August 1 

Post#34 » by penbeast0 » Fri Aug 6, 2010 3:10 am

Thanks Cellar and Miller, even if you did go over to the dark side. :starwars

It was first one to 2 votes so Snakebites and the Knicks win the 1975 championship!


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Re: 1975 -- Congratulations to Snakebites and the NY KNICKS 

Post#35 » by CellarDoor » Fri Aug 6, 2010 3:13 am

Congrats man!
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Re: 1975 -- Congratulations to Snakebites and the NY KNICKS 

Post#36 » by Snakebites » Fri Aug 6, 2010 5:03 am

Wooo!

Thank you to all.

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