So we spend a lot of time on this board discussing what players we would like on this team, how to build a contender, is it worth it to go for it now or should we rebuild slow, what should we be willing to give up.
We discuss specific players that are rumored to be available and try to come up with creative ways to get players that aren't so available.
But here's the thing... We either need to go all out and try and build an instant contender, just add water, that can really compete with the Miami Cheat, or we should continue rebuilding and trade for almost nobody unless they are an absolute steal, because we don't want to mess up possible draft position, nor stunt the growth of our 3 important young guys while only resulting in mediocrity.
The only other case we should trade for someone, is if it is a young player, still on rookie contract that can grow with our current "core".
So... I wanted to make a list that contains the ONLY players we should be going after as a first initial move, a player to build around... who is worth it to make another move and spend more assets and youth to create a top team with, or to mess up future draft position because it's a young player worth sacrificing for, because they will become part of the long term...
I'm not going to rank them, it is in random order. There are too many variables. Also, I am not going to be too concerned with what it would take to get them, or even if they are available at all, although I am going to leave off the stone cold obvious untouchables, such as Bron and co., Dwight, Kobe, Westbrook, Rose, etc.
I am just trying to convey a point, or at least an opinion that there aren't many players worth it to go all out for to pair with Lopez and hopefully another star, that could compete with the other top teams, because any other players don't accomplish the ultimate goals and therefore if we can't get at least one of these guys, it is pointless to do anything but a slow rebuild and continue being patient and waiting for a huge trade to present itself.
Thought this thread could be a good place to discuss these specific players.
If you guys have any other player to add, go for it.
So here they are.
Contenders:
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Brandon Roy
The Almost Must Haves:
Danny Granger
Josh Smith(I don't like the dude much, but I can understand the argument for him)
Al Horford
The Young Guys:
Steph Curry(probably untouchable, should have left him off)
OJ Mayo
James Harden
Nicolas Batum
Ricky Rubio
IMHO, these are the only players that are worth giving up legitimate assets and/or cap space for, and abandoning long term plans and/or changing the path it takes to get there.
Sure there are small trades and tweaks that might be worth it as well, but I am talking about major moves.
The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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vincecarter4pres
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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enetric
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
I like the sentiment...but I think there is a big part of this you are missing. First off...you shouldnt be batching guys by your own personal love fest....but CONTRACT.
That is such a huge part the issue.
First batch...not a cash point...but man do you overrate Roy, Aldridge to the extreme....I guess we could throw Batum in there too...not that I dont see the upside...just saying...
To the cap point...if you are going to talk about what is worth abandoning direction...Melo becomes a sticky situation. Clearly we arent beating the Heat with one Melo...and nothing else. One, he isnt all that. Two, need a couple more pieces. His contract will make that very hard to do.
How Westbrook and Rose got put with Kobe and Dwight...that was just odd to me.
Mayo I like...but also a bit overrated at this point and what he would cost to get. Make a batch of rook contract guys...take Westbrook, Rose, Mayo and put them in that batch that looks like Brook. Teams arent trading those guys unless they are the ones landing stars. We hesitate to include Brook in a deal for Paul....so that should tell you...ALL Those guys are untouchable for very diferent reasons than the Miami 3, Dwight, Derron, Kobiatch, and so on. THose teams are contenders. SO their guys are locked up for a while.
I think the real key is...what teams WOULD deal their proven talent. What guys are WORTH their contracts. THEN deal with are they worth the assets...and build a team that works under the cap.
Paul/Granger is a long shot for example...but I use it because we have been talking about it a lot. We talk about it...because cominbined they earn 25mil, both have legit angles to why they could be dealt...Granger was offered to us...Paul of course...blood in the water.
But...why would Atlanta deal one of their bigs right now? Is that legit? Sure..I can come up with an angle...so lets leave that one in for now.
I think it becomes clear...there just arent alot of options. And end of day...unlikely we can beat the Heat without adding 2 massive trade improvments....2 stars...and keep one our bigs...and that ONE becomes a star in his own right. That's about it...and still? Probably not going to beat a team that had 2 of the top 5 players in the NBA and another in the top 10-12...one of the best bigs in the league. Do we really have a better angle?
How many years of slow building would it take to beat that team? Even if we draft perfect the next two years...say we win the lottery once, and add a second top 4 guy in the next two years...how many years if both of those guys, plus Favors are destined to be special before they are THERE??
And then...how good will the Heat be? Will they be declining? Not in 3 years...probbly not in 5...as that LEbron and Bosh are only 25. Plus, they will be better in a couple of years after a few MLE signings....and even some older vets on the LLE. You just know Kidd is there in two years if he has anything left. How about KG? The names dont really matter. Whoever the best MLE type guy out there...Miami will have first shot.
End of the day...we will be hard pressed to come up with...ITS WORTH IT moves if you think the way you are thinking. I think...this comes down to using the cap wisely. VALUE. ANd I am not ripping any names you added...just saying...there needs to be a better understanding of how to get there. And...what IS "THERE"? Sure looks like Conference finals...and hope we can push through here or there. I can see a Celtics team...or an Orland team beating the Heat this year. MAybe even next. But that's it. Since we need a couple of years to map together either plan (trades or draft) we will be running into an even BETTER Heat team.
And one last thing...I will keep saying this. Can we all stop being such hypocrites. Miami Cheat? Quit being a whinny puss. You would have been defending our team if we had landed two of those guys...and we would still be talking about trading for Paul to get the third.
There was no cheating. Good for them, bad for us...OH FREAKIN WELL. Want to hate them...fine. But lets stop making it sound like its because they did anything wrong here. They didnt. FInd a better reason than the latest BS. Tell me you HATE Pat Riley that he is the biggest ego maniac douche on the planet and will have to inject himself into this to try and catch Phil in rings to put himself back into the conversation as best ever...so he will wait until the Heat lose for a year or two...and then with those MLE signings...will come down like the saviour.
I dont know. Say...Wade is a selfish player. Whatever...you love Kobiatch...hate Lebron. Say you are Mark Jackson and you are NOT better than that...and that like MArk you wear Kobiatch pajamas to bed.
Whatever...but let the madness over free agency stop already. We got beat. They want to make sacrifced to make this happen? God bless. Nothing you can do about that.
That is such a huge part the issue.
First batch...not a cash point...but man do you overrate Roy, Aldridge to the extreme....I guess we could throw Batum in there too...not that I dont see the upside...just saying...
To the cap point...if you are going to talk about what is worth abandoning direction...Melo becomes a sticky situation. Clearly we arent beating the Heat with one Melo...and nothing else. One, he isnt all that. Two, need a couple more pieces. His contract will make that very hard to do.
How Westbrook and Rose got put with Kobe and Dwight...that was just odd to me.
Mayo I like...but also a bit overrated at this point and what he would cost to get. Make a batch of rook contract guys...take Westbrook, Rose, Mayo and put them in that batch that looks like Brook. Teams arent trading those guys unless they are the ones landing stars. We hesitate to include Brook in a deal for Paul....so that should tell you...ALL Those guys are untouchable for very diferent reasons than the Miami 3, Dwight, Derron, Kobiatch, and so on. THose teams are contenders. SO their guys are locked up for a while.
I think the real key is...what teams WOULD deal their proven talent. What guys are WORTH their contracts. THEN deal with are they worth the assets...and build a team that works under the cap.
Paul/Granger is a long shot for example...but I use it because we have been talking about it a lot. We talk about it...because cominbined they earn 25mil, both have legit angles to why they could be dealt...Granger was offered to us...Paul of course...blood in the water.
But...why would Atlanta deal one of their bigs right now? Is that legit? Sure..I can come up with an angle...so lets leave that one in for now.
I think it becomes clear...there just arent alot of options. And end of day...unlikely we can beat the Heat without adding 2 massive trade improvments....2 stars...and keep one our bigs...and that ONE becomes a star in his own right. That's about it...and still? Probably not going to beat a team that had 2 of the top 5 players in the NBA and another in the top 10-12...one of the best bigs in the league. Do we really have a better angle?
How many years of slow building would it take to beat that team? Even if we draft perfect the next two years...say we win the lottery once, and add a second top 4 guy in the next two years...how many years if both of those guys, plus Favors are destined to be special before they are THERE??
And then...how good will the Heat be? Will they be declining? Not in 3 years...probbly not in 5...as that LEbron and Bosh are only 25. Plus, they will be better in a couple of years after a few MLE signings....and even some older vets on the LLE. You just know Kidd is there in two years if he has anything left. How about KG? The names dont really matter. Whoever the best MLE type guy out there...Miami will have first shot.
End of the day...we will be hard pressed to come up with...ITS WORTH IT moves if you think the way you are thinking. I think...this comes down to using the cap wisely. VALUE. ANd I am not ripping any names you added...just saying...there needs to be a better understanding of how to get there. And...what IS "THERE"? Sure looks like Conference finals...and hope we can push through here or there. I can see a Celtics team...or an Orland team beating the Heat this year. MAybe even next. But that's it. Since we need a couple of years to map together either plan (trades or draft) we will be running into an even BETTER Heat team.
And one last thing...I will keep saying this. Can we all stop being such hypocrites. Miami Cheat? Quit being a whinny puss. You would have been defending our team if we had landed two of those guys...and we would still be talking about trading for Paul to get the third.
There was no cheating. Good for them, bad for us...OH FREAKIN WELL. Want to hate them...fine. But lets stop making it sound like its because they did anything wrong here. They didnt. FInd a better reason than the latest BS. Tell me you HATE Pat Riley that he is the biggest ego maniac douche on the planet and will have to inject himself into this to try and catch Phil in rings to put himself back into the conversation as best ever...so he will wait until the Heat lose for a year or two...and then with those MLE signings...will come down like the saviour.
I dont know. Say...Wade is a selfish player. Whatever...you love Kobiatch...hate Lebron. Say you are Mark Jackson and you are NOT better than that...and that like MArk you wear Kobiatch pajamas to bed.
Whatever...but let the madness over free agency stop already. We got beat. They want to make sacrifced to make this happen? God bless. Nothing you can do about that.
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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mikhailjordan
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
I have absolutely no clue what E just said but I love it 
I will say this though people penciling in D-Whine, LeBricks, and Chris Softs in as perennial finals contenders need a chill pill. That team is beatable you just need a defense that is greater than the sum of their parts (see: Boston, and Orlando (on the rare occasion that they can be bothered to stop chucking 3's)).
Also for what it's worth I'm down with going after the Mayonator. Harden is another guy who is probably obtainable but it would likely have to be a bigger deal. Could care less for Batum though...
I will say this though people penciling in D-Whine, LeBricks, and Chris Softs in as perennial finals contenders need a chill pill. That team is beatable you just need a defense that is greater than the sum of their parts (see: Boston, and Orlando (on the rare occasion that they can be bothered to stop chucking 3's)).
Also for what it's worth I'm down with going after the Mayonator. Harden is another guy who is probably obtainable but it would likely have to be a bigger deal. Could care less for Batum though...
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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60cent
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
First off, i want to start with... Brandon Roy? Eeww! (there... I got it off my system already)
The player i dreamed of getting in the superstar level not named Brkn, Wade and Kobe is... Nowitzki. There might be a better chance of getting him than those because there's a big chance that Dallas might not make it again and we all know Cuban, he can be unpredictable and might get pissed and would just decide to rebuild.
Btw... Im not gonna name the players with their salaries, im not gonna worry about that. I will just name the ones i like and let someone else worry of how we can get them money-wise. Im saying this because i know Dirk just signed a 4 yr 80 mil contract and i dont know how we can afford that and still pay others to stay competitive.
Now back to reality.
I would start with... (drumroll please)... Ricky Rubio! (surprised?) lol... Seriously, i'd find a way to get him here, not because i personally love him as a player but i really think he's the real deal. I think the one big misconception about this guy is people wants him to be a scorer. I remember someone saying that he cant jump, not fast and he's not strong and they dont think he will be able to drive all the way to the basket and score. First off, that's not his game and they made sound like its a very hard thing to do when we see guys like Brooks or Dragic do it all day. He is pure PG... He will play like Kidd did his younger days. Now, if you're looking for a PG that will score high and all that, then he is not your guy, maybe you should look to trade for Arenas. The way i see it this... When you bring a foreign shooter to this league, you ask him to shoot and not to penetrate to the basket and collect fouls all day. You cannot ask a player to do something he's not capable of doing because if you do then you're just simply setting yourself up for disappointments. Bottom line is... Ricky is very talented, young, can still potentially become a good offensive player, he very good on defense and most of all... He is a winner... He understands what it takes to win. You bring in a shooter and ask him to shoot. Now, if you bring Ricky here, you ask him to be a playmaker because thats what he does best with that amazing vision.
Here is the part where it gets harder because, honestly, there's really nobody out there who can make us better, but i will try to give it a shot.
I think at this point of time its safe to say that Blake Griffin can still become a franchise player, because he never played a single game yet and he was a number 1 pick afterall. So yeah, i'd get him. With his injury, i think he can be had especially for a player like Lopez, which brings me to my next prospect... Chris (or Kris?) Kaman.
Kaman might be getting older but he still is a very reliable Center. He's a good scorer, he can shoot, play defense and a good rebounder as well. Actually, he is getting better as he gets older. Correct me if im wrong, didnt he just get voted on to the all-star team last year? Most people are saying that Lopez is a few years away from being one of the top Centers in the league but i think people are forgetting Kaman. He is only 28 years old and in the prime of his career. Right now, he's way better than Lopez and who knows if Lopez can really become that player.
My question is... Would you trade Lopez (and maybe Favors and/or 1st rd pick) for Kaman and Griffin? Dont know how much Kaman makes so i dont know if this is something we are willing to do. But remember that we have an owner that can pay now.
Also, i know this is not the topic but other guys that i want to be on this are Eric Gordon, Wayne Ellington (and more... Sorry i went blank)
I have more players on mind but i couldnt remember maybe because its already 3 am and im really tired... This is my only me time today so im quickly trying to voice my opinion before i lose it all and completely unable to post... When and if i remember them i will try to post it when and if i get a chance.
Have a great day everyone!
The player i dreamed of getting in the superstar level not named Brkn, Wade and Kobe is... Nowitzki. There might be a better chance of getting him than those because there's a big chance that Dallas might not make it again and we all know Cuban, he can be unpredictable and might get pissed and would just decide to rebuild.
Btw... Im not gonna name the players with their salaries, im not gonna worry about that. I will just name the ones i like and let someone else worry of how we can get them money-wise. Im saying this because i know Dirk just signed a 4 yr 80 mil contract and i dont know how we can afford that and still pay others to stay competitive.
Now back to reality.
I would start with... (drumroll please)... Ricky Rubio! (surprised?) lol... Seriously, i'd find a way to get him here, not because i personally love him as a player but i really think he's the real deal. I think the one big misconception about this guy is people wants him to be a scorer. I remember someone saying that he cant jump, not fast and he's not strong and they dont think he will be able to drive all the way to the basket and score. First off, that's not his game and they made sound like its a very hard thing to do when we see guys like Brooks or Dragic do it all day. He is pure PG... He will play like Kidd did his younger days. Now, if you're looking for a PG that will score high and all that, then he is not your guy, maybe you should look to trade for Arenas. The way i see it this... When you bring a foreign shooter to this league, you ask him to shoot and not to penetrate to the basket and collect fouls all day. You cannot ask a player to do something he's not capable of doing because if you do then you're just simply setting yourself up for disappointments. Bottom line is... Ricky is very talented, young, can still potentially become a good offensive player, he very good on defense and most of all... He is a winner... He understands what it takes to win. You bring in a shooter and ask him to shoot. Now, if you bring Ricky here, you ask him to be a playmaker because thats what he does best with that amazing vision.
Here is the part where it gets harder because, honestly, there's really nobody out there who can make us better, but i will try to give it a shot.
I think at this point of time its safe to say that Blake Griffin can still become a franchise player, because he never played a single game yet and he was a number 1 pick afterall. So yeah, i'd get him. With his injury, i think he can be had especially for a player like Lopez, which brings me to my next prospect... Chris (or Kris?) Kaman.
Kaman might be getting older but he still is a very reliable Center. He's a good scorer, he can shoot, play defense and a good rebounder as well. Actually, he is getting better as he gets older. Correct me if im wrong, didnt he just get voted on to the all-star team last year? Most people are saying that Lopez is a few years away from being one of the top Centers in the league but i think people are forgetting Kaman. He is only 28 years old and in the prime of his career. Right now, he's way better than Lopez and who knows if Lopez can really become that player.
My question is... Would you trade Lopez (and maybe Favors and/or 1st rd pick) for Kaman and Griffin? Dont know how much Kaman makes so i dont know if this is something we are willing to do. But remember that we have an owner that can pay now.
Also, i know this is not the topic but other guys that i want to be on this are Eric Gordon, Wayne Ellington (and more... Sorry i went blank)
I have more players on mind but i couldnt remember maybe because its already 3 am and im really tired... This is my only me time today so im quickly trying to voice my opinion before i lose it all and completely unable to post... When and if i remember them i will try to post it when and if i get a chance.
Have a great day everyone!
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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Rockice_8
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
^^ I don't hate Rubio I just think that we are going ot have to overpay because Kahn is banking his job on this kid so they will be asking for someone like Favors in return which is out of the question.
As for the Griffin/Kaman deal thats a big HELL NO. Really don't see much of a difference between Griffin and Favors maybe Griffin is a little more now ready but he has similar holes in his game like Favors and I am not swapping Kaman for Lopez so no I would not do that.
RIght now I would like to let Favors/Lopez develop into our froncourt of the future I really see those two as close to untouchable as you get unless Favors is bringing in a superstar.
After those two I think PG is our next biggest need we need to find our CP3 or D-Will somewhere without losing our frontcourt. I like Harris and think he will improve his play to the level we all expect next season but I still feel that is our biggest need.
As for the Griffin/Kaman deal thats a big HELL NO. Really don't see much of a difference between Griffin and Favors maybe Griffin is a little more now ready but he has similar holes in his game like Favors and I am not swapping Kaman for Lopez so no I would not do that.
RIght now I would like to let Favors/Lopez develop into our froncourt of the future I really see those two as close to untouchable as you get unless Favors is bringing in a superstar.
After those two I think PG is our next biggest need we need to find our CP3 or D-Will somewhere without losing our frontcourt. I like Harris and think he will improve his play to the level we all expect next season but I still feel that is our biggest need.
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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jerseyjac
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
Contracts are something you have to look at from the start...its always going to be a dollar and cents game...but I really feel you have gauge a player's needs and his career/status in the NBA, as VC stated...
I have stated this from the beginning, you ARE SELLING the Nets...the team, the organization, Brooklyn and the new arena, with Avery and our new ownership...No matter who your guy is, whether you feel one is better than the other for whatever reason...You will be CONVINCING them to come and play for the Nets...
If its a trade scenario, it becomes even more difficult, because of the players you have to piece together to get that deal done...
I do agree, its about opportunity...you have to feel the waters out on every player that becomes available...
Right now we are still tryin to get the players comfortable with the idea and future of playing for the Nets...Its starts and ends with this, and in my mind, the younger the better...Players in a smaller market also make our pitch easier...
At the end of the day, I'm for anyone who wants to come here and make this franchise into a contender...as much as we have to build one, these players we look at have to WANT to play here, and I still feel the current stage the Nets are at (not that we're not attractive), its still an uphill battle...
My fingers are crossed to get that deal done, sign that FA or wait out on the rookie/young guy ready to jump on board and get this thing moving...
(I gotta run, I'll post some of the players I think fit best here, most have been metioned already)
I have stated this from the beginning, you ARE SELLING the Nets...the team, the organization, Brooklyn and the new arena, with Avery and our new ownership...No matter who your guy is, whether you feel one is better than the other for whatever reason...You will be CONVINCING them to come and play for the Nets...
If its a trade scenario, it becomes even more difficult, because of the players you have to piece together to get that deal done...
I do agree, its about opportunity...you have to feel the waters out on every player that becomes available...
Right now we are still tryin to get the players comfortable with the idea and future of playing for the Nets...Its starts and ends with this, and in my mind, the younger the better...Players in a smaller market also make our pitch easier...
At the end of the day, I'm for anyone who wants to come here and make this franchise into a contender...as much as we have to build one, these players we look at have to WANT to play here, and I still feel the current stage the Nets are at (not that we're not attractive), its still an uphill battle...
My fingers are crossed to get that deal done, sign that FA or wait out on the rookie/young guy ready to jump on board and get this thing moving...
(I gotta run, I'll post some of the players I think fit best here, most have been metioned already)
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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Lamak
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
No Blake Griffin and Kaman please.
Anyways, I love the Rubio idea, but I'm personally worried if his game would translate. Even if it does and he averages around 11 assists a game, who would score? He's not a 20 point guy right now and probably will never be. He's more of the 15 pt Kidd type.
A trade could go something like Terrence Williams + Devin Harris + 2011 2nd Round for Rubio.
*Edit* Thought about it some more and Rubio could work. If the trade above goes through the lineup would be: Rubio-Morrow-Outlaw-Favors-Lopez with James coming off the bench for scoring.
I also like the Batum idea, because he's a very good defender for his age. He's also a deceptive scorer that can put points up and effect the game in a positive way. Dunno how we could get him from the Blazers though.
The main problem with our rebuilding right now is that we don't have a young duo to build around ala Kings (DMC/Reke) or Hornets (Thorton/Collison), we just have Harris (27 old), Lopez (22), and a project in Favors (19). We don't even know if TWill is legit yet. Shipping out Devin and bringing in a Rubio (19 going on 20) or Batum (Going on 23) would atleast give us a player that we could pair with Lopez and know that we'd be one piece away from contention (and improving [OKC Model]) in the next 5 years.
Regardless of whatever we do, I do agree the ultimate goal is to get atleast another star around Lopez and the best case would be to put two around him to stop the lame super teams.
Anyways, I love the Rubio idea, but I'm personally worried if his game would translate. Even if it does and he averages around 11 assists a game, who would score? He's not a 20 point guy right now and probably will never be. He's more of the 15 pt Kidd type.
A trade could go something like Terrence Williams + Devin Harris + 2011 2nd Round for Rubio.
*Edit* Thought about it some more and Rubio could work. If the trade above goes through the lineup would be: Rubio-Morrow-Outlaw-Favors-Lopez with James coming off the bench for scoring.
I also like the Batum idea, because he's a very good defender for his age. He's also a deceptive scorer that can put points up and effect the game in a positive way. Dunno how we could get him from the Blazers though.
The main problem with our rebuilding right now is that we don't have a young duo to build around ala Kings (DMC/Reke) or Hornets (Thorton/Collison), we just have Harris (27 old), Lopez (22), and a project in Favors (19). We don't even know if TWill is legit yet. Shipping out Devin and bringing in a Rubio (19 going on 20) or Batum (Going on 23) would atleast give us a player that we could pair with Lopez and know that we'd be one piece away from contention (and improving [OKC Model]) in the next 5 years.
Regardless of whatever we do, I do agree the ultimate goal is to get atleast another star around Lopez and the best case would be to put two around him to stop the lame super teams.
Brooklyn Nets
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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enetric
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
jerseyjac wrote:Contracts are something you have to look at from the start...its always going to be a dollar and cents game...but I really feel you have gauge a player's needs and his career/status in the NBA, as VC stated...
I have stated this from the beginning, you ARE SELLING the Nets...the team, the organization, Brooklyn and the new arena, with Avery and our new ownership...No matter who your guy is, whether you feel one is better than the other for whatever reason...You will be CONVINCING them to come and play for the Nets...
If its a trade scenario, it becomes even more difficult, because of the players you have to piece together to get that deal done...
I do agree, its about opportunity...you have to feel the waters out on every player that becomes available...
Right now we are still tryin to get the players comfortable with the idea and future of playing for the Nets...Its starts and ends with this, and in my mind, the younger the better...Players in a smaller market also make our pitch easier...
At the end of the day, I'm for anyone who wants to come here and make this franchise into a contender...as much as we have to build one, these players we look at have to WANT to play here, and I still feel the current stage the Nets are at (not that we're not attractive), its still an uphill battle...
My fingers are crossed to get that deal done, sign that FA or wait out on the rookie/young guy ready to jump on board and get this thing moving...
(I gotta run, I'll post some of the players I think fit best here, most have been metioned already)
See now here we go. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SELL YOUR TEAM TO PLAYERS UNDER CONTRACT. PERIOD. If we did...we would never land anyone the last 15 years. NOT EVER.
We are still two years from Brooklyn. We did not land a superstar. We are the youngest team in the league...and now that free agency is over...we are that team who had one of the 5 worst records in the history of the league last year. There is no selling this team as a prefered choice right now. That ship has sailed. Now its who can we get under contract and go from there.
We HOPE that once we land in Brooklyn we will become a more dsireable destination. That has been the plan all along. Had we landed a superstar or two this summer....we could have jump started that perception. No matter how people want to portray the three new Heat players....stars attract the best players. Guys have always said...I want to play with so and so...and that helps...but even then? Hw many players have said..I would LOVE to play with J.Kidd? Number one free agent signing EVER...RODNEY ROGERS. Biggest name....ZO coming here as damaged goods...and a complete bust that we got talked into by Kidd in the first place.
We are not selling signed players on the Nets pre-trade. We are selling their curent teams on our trade assets and then we can convince those guys that this is a good place to play when their plane arrives as we are handing them their new jerseys...just as we did Kidd and Carter.
No...wanting to come here DOES NOT MATTER. Not on draft day, not during trades. ONLY IN FREE AGENCY. PERIOD. How do you know that? Because of theman trades that go on al the time..and the guy says... "well, end of the day the NBA is business, you go where you are traded".
Then they give all the PR make nice reasons to sell tickets for their new team. No one gets to their new team and says... "I am so pissed I just got traded to the team with the worst record in the league. Man...NEWARK??? Nice arena...but uggggh. Not exactly where I wanted to be. I heard there was a shot I could go to team in California...I sure prefer warm weather to north east winters. Damn, not exactly what I had in mind, cant believe they traded me here."
Ever heard that? Do you seriously doubt that this is what the majority of these guys are thinking?
Please stop worrying about their feelings. If they are under contract...they will play. Over time...they might grow to like it here. If not deal with it then. But if you wait for someone out there not already onthe team to have pride in the Nets...you will be waiting until hell freezes over.
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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NyCeEvO
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
So we actually think that Ricky Rubio, who has never played a single game in the NBA, is already so talented that he's already a top tier NBA superstar? I'll be extremely nice and just say no way!
The reason why this thread and many other arguments about CP3/Melo/D-Will and a few others has been brought up is mainly because of the idea that Proky says that we will win a title within 5 years (and also because we're fans and we want to see our team win asap). So here's the equation we have:
Proky's proclamation (A) + Right dymanic players (B) = Championship within 5 years (C)
Obviously in order for A to be correct and C to be true, we need the best B that we can get with talent that is currently available. E is right that the only way for C to be true to is assemble a team that has a chance to beat the Heat/Magic/Celtics/Bulls within the next 5 years. This can only be achieved with superstar level talent at (at least) 2 positions along with solid role players. Like Proky said, it's much easier to create a top team but one that is certain to not make it to the Finals than it is to create a team that has an actual chance of winning. The "Young Guys" category will not cut it. None of those players are NBA proven stars yet, let alone superstars.
Even though the scenarios that we have discussed are long shots and will remain so unless we actually receive evidence to the contrary, I feel that the first step to reaching C is to get the superstar level PG or Granger through a trade. Most of us believe that CP3 and D.Will are the top two PGs in the game and there is a chance that they could be traded (not a likelihood but a chance at this point in time). No superstar level player that has a desire to win will sign with us unless we have already have another 2 studs that are guaranteed to help them topple the top EC teams. Therefore IMO, the only guys that we really should be targeting through trades to achieve this goal are 1) CP3 2) D.Will 3) Granger. All other superstar players are next to impossible to acquire via trade. Carmelo has too good of a team in a weaker WC to desire a trade to the Nets even if he does like the NYC area.
The list of players that we should be targeting in trades to achieved the owner's goal is much shorter than what was first put up.
The reason why this thread and many other arguments about CP3/Melo/D-Will and a few others has been brought up is mainly because of the idea that Proky says that we will win a title within 5 years (and also because we're fans and we want to see our team win asap). So here's the equation we have:
Proky's proclamation (A) + Right dymanic players (B) = Championship within 5 years (C)
Obviously in order for A to be correct and C to be true, we need the best B that we can get with talent that is currently available. E is right that the only way for C to be true to is assemble a team that has a chance to beat the Heat/Magic/Celtics/Bulls within the next 5 years. This can only be achieved with superstar level talent at (at least) 2 positions along with solid role players. Like Proky said, it's much easier to create a top team but one that is certain to not make it to the Finals than it is to create a team that has an actual chance of winning. The "Young Guys" category will not cut it. None of those players are NBA proven stars yet, let alone superstars.
Even though the scenarios that we have discussed are long shots and will remain so unless we actually receive evidence to the contrary, I feel that the first step to reaching C is to get the superstar level PG or Granger through a trade. Most of us believe that CP3 and D.Will are the top two PGs in the game and there is a chance that they could be traded (not a likelihood but a chance at this point in time). No superstar level player that has a desire to win will sign with us unless we have already have another 2 studs that are guaranteed to help them topple the top EC teams. Therefore IMO, the only guys that we really should be targeting through trades to achieve this goal are 1) CP3 2) D.Will 3) Granger. All other superstar players are next to impossible to acquire via trade. Carmelo has too good of a team in a weaker WC to desire a trade to the Nets even if he does like the NYC area.
The list of players that we should be targeting in trades to achieved the owner's goal is much shorter than what was first put up.
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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vincecarter4pres
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
E, I think you're taking me out of context on a lot of things.
Maybe I worded some of my original post poorly, or you're expounding on some of my statements and taking them into a different direction.
I also think you're looking at building a team in a vacuum.
We aren't going to necessarily be able to go out and bring Chris Paul in and then bring in Melo or Granger, for example, two days later and then say, here you go guys, gel, you're a contender.
Sometimes you have to make a risky move 1st and then go hard after the next move when the time comes.
I want to get deeper into this and quote certain points so I don't generalize your statements too much as I am currently doing, but I can't get around to that till much later, so I just wanted to make a couple overall points without turning this from spit balling and debate into an argument, because we're obviously and mainly on the same page.
Maybe I worded some of my original post poorly, or you're expounding on some of my statements and taking them into a different direction.
I also think you're looking at building a team in a vacuum.
We aren't going to necessarily be able to go out and bring Chris Paul in and then bring in Melo or Granger, for example, two days later and then say, here you go guys, gel, you're a contender.
Sometimes you have to make a risky move 1st and then go hard after the next move when the time comes.
I want to get deeper into this and quote certain points so I don't generalize your statements too much as I am currently doing, but I can't get around to that till much later, so I just wanted to make a couple overall points without turning this from spit balling and debate into an argument, because we're obviously and mainly on the same page.
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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jerseyjac
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
so players who are looking to exit their current franchise can't veto a trade if they're not interested in that destination...obvioulsy the player's current team explains teams X, Y & Z have the best assests and we can get a deal done with one of them...but if that player isnt interested in Team X and that team is the Nets, we obviously have a lot more selling to do, because we just got VETOED...
I'm not talking about selling our team directly to a player under contract, but by example...I still dont think many players out there in the NBA are ready to jump ship for the Nets...so WE HAVE A LOT MORE "SELLING" TO DO...
I'm talking about everything we have going on here from Brooklyn to Lopez to Mik's deep pockets...NO PLAYER has yet to say, the Nets is the team I want to play for...(I actually thought for a second Amare was that player, but he obviously was offered more money in NY, but thats a sidenote I wasnt interested in paying him that contract)...
The odds are still not in our favor, we're talking about longshots more or less which I have no problem with...but reality is a bitch, when you look at from my angle...
The type of trades were talking about, players dont want to walk in and hear promises, they want to KNOW what the situation is, and for the most part that teams situation is already in place...
Now if you can find me a player that wants to jump ship, who is looking for fresh start/new beginning type thing and is willing to listen to our plan for the future including the moves we're trying to make to get the players we need to contend...I'm fan #1...but who is that...
Paul sounds like he wants to be Hornet...
I'm not talking about selling our team directly to a player under contract, but by example...I still dont think many players out there in the NBA are ready to jump ship for the Nets...so WE HAVE A LOT MORE "SELLING" TO DO...
I'm talking about everything we have going on here from Brooklyn to Lopez to Mik's deep pockets...NO PLAYER has yet to say, the Nets is the team I want to play for...(I actually thought for a second Amare was that player, but he obviously was offered more money in NY, but thats a sidenote I wasnt interested in paying him that contract)...
The odds are still not in our favor, we're talking about longshots more or less which I have no problem with...but reality is a bitch, when you look at from my angle...
The type of trades were talking about, players dont want to walk in and hear promises, they want to KNOW what the situation is, and for the most part that teams situation is already in place...
Now if you can find me a player that wants to jump ship, who is looking for fresh start/new beginning type thing and is willing to listen to our plan for the future including the moves we're trying to make to get the players we need to contend...I'm fan #1...but who is that...
Paul sounds like he wants to be Hornet...
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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enetric
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
JJ...
Again, I will remind you. Kidd was the best PG in the NBA when he left the Suns. We had the worst record in the league then too. He didnt want to be here either. And a few years later things got better.
I cant stress enough. Dont worry about it. Match up the trade, get the other team to say yes...and then you talk to the agent and look at his physicals. And that goes for Paul, or anyone else. That is why you hold 15mil in cap space, and stockpile picks and prospects. You do it so that when there is a player to be had in a steal...a guy who wouldnt be traded if there wasnt a good reason...suddenly is out there.
That's what we did this for. Not to SELL us to players. To sell our assets to another team. That's the way it goes when you are under contract. If the Nets feel there is a good reason NOT to deal for Paul should the Hornets agree to an offer...they wont do it.
In the end...this isnt worth worrying about JJ. Paul for example? You said his big beef is he wants to win. But...now you hear...it sounds like he wants to be a Hornet but wants them to commit to spending. Now realize that all the spin...all of it...are sports writers getting bits and pieces from an agent or the team itself. A day ago...he was being called names for not being loyal on this site. A day later....he is loyal?
Its simple. He wants to go to a team that will commit to doing what it takes to win. He may have prefered markets. I am sure NO is already one of them. That team is a mess right now. And it starts with ownership. There is only so much they can say...and then it comes down to...what can they afford to do? He sees it. He sees an offseason that had NO moves. They used their #11 pick to help them shed Mo Pete. An team sale that has stalled. A fired coach he liked, a fired Gm I think he also liked....and his buddies heading to South Beach.
I have no clue what will happen...but blood is in the water...and there is no reason to act like we shouldnt be looking at him because someone says there was a list of teams he prefered. Again, if those are the only guys you want.....then expect no one of quality.
Whoever we get...will do that press conference that will ease all your fears when he says all the right things. That's how it always goes. You are really over thinking this part of it. Players get traded to bad teams all the time when they are under contract. That's the business. And be glad it is. Otherwise there would be absolutely no way for us to get better beyond sucking hard and landing lottery picks since we have never signed one major free agent EVER.
Again, I will remind you. Kidd was the best PG in the NBA when he left the Suns. We had the worst record in the league then too. He didnt want to be here either. And a few years later things got better.
I cant stress enough. Dont worry about it. Match up the trade, get the other team to say yes...and then you talk to the agent and look at his physicals. And that goes for Paul, or anyone else. That is why you hold 15mil in cap space, and stockpile picks and prospects. You do it so that when there is a player to be had in a steal...a guy who wouldnt be traded if there wasnt a good reason...suddenly is out there.
That's what we did this for. Not to SELL us to players. To sell our assets to another team. That's the way it goes when you are under contract. If the Nets feel there is a good reason NOT to deal for Paul should the Hornets agree to an offer...they wont do it.
In the end...this isnt worth worrying about JJ. Paul for example? You said his big beef is he wants to win. But...now you hear...it sounds like he wants to be a Hornet but wants them to commit to spending. Now realize that all the spin...all of it...are sports writers getting bits and pieces from an agent or the team itself. A day ago...he was being called names for not being loyal on this site. A day later....he is loyal?
Its simple. He wants to go to a team that will commit to doing what it takes to win. He may have prefered markets. I am sure NO is already one of them. That team is a mess right now. And it starts with ownership. There is only so much they can say...and then it comes down to...what can they afford to do? He sees it. He sees an offseason that had NO moves. They used their #11 pick to help them shed Mo Pete. An team sale that has stalled. A fired coach he liked, a fired Gm I think he also liked....and his buddies heading to South Beach.
I have no clue what will happen...but blood is in the water...and there is no reason to act like we shouldnt be looking at him because someone says there was a list of teams he prefered. Again, if those are the only guys you want.....then expect no one of quality.
Whoever we get...will do that press conference that will ease all your fears when he says all the right things. That's how it always goes. You are really over thinking this part of it. Players get traded to bad teams all the time when they are under contract. That's the business. And be glad it is. Otherwise there would be absolutely no way for us to get better beyond sucking hard and landing lottery picks since we have never signed one major free agent EVER.
Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
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enetric
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Re: The Only Players We Should Be Targeting In Trades
vincecarter4pres wrote:E, I think you're taking me out of context on a lot of things.
Maybe I worded some of my original post poorly, or you're expounding on some of my statements and taking them into a different direction.
I also think you're looking at building a team in a vacuum.
We aren't going to necessarily be able to go out and bring Chris Paul in and then bring in Melo or Granger, for example, two days later and then say, here you go guys, gel, you're a contender.
Sometimes you have to make a risky move 1st and then go hard after the next move when the time comes.
I want to get deeper into this and quote certain points so I don't generalize your statements too much as I am currently doing, but I can't get around to that till much later, so I just wanted to make a couple overall points without turning this from spit balling and debate into an argument, because we're obviously and mainly on the same page.
If I did that...then I apologize. I just think if you're going to come up with targets...you have to factor in other team motivations, plus the cap hit we take on, etc. Not just batch together your own personal rankings for which prospects you simply love...and which franchise guys you think are studs vs. which ones you dont.
I agree...moves wont happen in a vaccum. But if you say...lets do THIS move...and not see how it will prevent the next one because that guy was more costly in prospect, picks and CAP SPACE...that isnt a good plan. A guy cant just be better he has to be THIS PORTION OF THE CAP PIE better.
You gotta have a plan that makes sense. I didnt feel you batched those guys together in a reasonable fashion and that was my point.