Is Danny Granger available?

[Boneman2]

I'll never understand why fans think we got the death penalty. It makes me That being said, this Webb guy is either an idiot or a troll and should just be ignored.

and once again, anyone who thinks Noah is a good, much less great, is a moron.

So, it made you laugh when Stern handed down record fines and suspensions after the brawl. Just so you know, that was the beginning of the end of a succesful two decade run in the NBA for my favorite team.

For your benefit I will help you understand a little about the Pacers.

[Miller4ever]

It doesn't make him laugh. It makes him

Apparently, me believing that Joakim Noah is a good center makes me a moron.

How does 11 points and 11 rebounds with 1.6 blocks on .504 shooting in 30 minutes per game NOT make him a good center?

[Boneman2]

Noah is a freak because he can D up powerful players with his wiry frame. He is an excellent defender, shot alterer, shot blocker, low-post scorer, rebounder and his stroke is solid enough to develop a deadly mid-range game.

This is coming from a guy who couldn't stand him at Florida, but have since come around because I respect his skills. I think it's safe to say Noah has another decade in him.

Compare Noah's stats with Roy. Both have similar potential, but Noah appears to be more well-rounded.

[Solid]

Good help D and a mid range game.
Think he'd line up well at the 4 beside Hib? if so what would we want top offer them?

[aquatic92]

It doesn't make him laugh. It makes him

Apparently, me believing that Joakim Noah is a good center makes me a moron.

How does 11 points and 11 rebounds with 1.6 blocks on .504 shooting in 30 minutes per game NOT make him a good center?

My bad, apparently we have different views of what makes a good center. When I've seen Noah play, he has not impressed me as being a good NBA center. He's been solid and he plays hard, I'll give you that but im just saying i definitely have not been impressed with the former top-10 pick and i dont think he'll improve much from the stats he posted last year. Hell, even his shot makes me

and Boneman, he gave record suspensions and fines because nothing like that had happened before in the NBA, with players beating up fans and going into the stands. Like you, i certainly was upset, but Stern had to come down hard on the players in this situation. I understand the Pacers and the bad breaks they've had but Stern didnt make Artest demand a trade or try to run over SJax with his car or cause any of the events at the Palace.

[Indy2thaWindy]

^
You don't know that. David Stern hates the Pacers so much he probly did do all that. Wouldn't surprise me.

[Miller4ever]

we have different views of what makes a good center.

A lot of it is the era we're in. Even 15 years ago, we had Hakeem, The Admiral, Shaq, Ewing, Alonzo, Mutombo, Kevin Willis, etc. Smits was a 17-7 player with only a block a game.

The best C in the game now is Dwight, and he lacks the offensive capabilities of basically everyone on that list except Dikembe.

So in my view, Noah makes a good C because he plays really, really, REALLY hard, rebounds, defends, gets nice shooting percentages and also cranks it up for the playoffs, in an age where good C's are hard to find.

If we stuck him in 1995 it would be a whole different ball game.

[aquatic92]

we have different views of what makes a good center.

A lot of it is the era we're in. Even 15 years ago, we had Hakeem, The Admiral, Shaq, Ewing, Alonzo, Mutombo, Kevin Willis, etc. Smits was a 17-7 player with only a block a game.

The best C in the game now is Dwight, and he lacks the offensive capabilities of basically everyone on that list except Dikembe.

So in my view, Noah makes a good C because he plays really, really, REALLY hard, rebounds, defends, gets nice shooting percentages and also cranks it up for the playoffs, in an age where good C's are hard to find.

If we stuck him in 1995 it would be a whole different ball game.

Yeah, part of me is probably comparing him to those guys but another part is thinking that he's not a real C. I feel like he's more of a 4 than 5 because of his body and I havent seen him dominate the paint like I'm visualizing a good C would. And to try to tie back to the OT, he'd be the 4 if we got him for Granger.

In my opinion, Dwight is one of the best PLAYERS in the league, but I don't see him as the best center if you can see where im trying to go with this. I just dont see his offensive game at this point being at a level of a Yao (pre-knee injuries of course) or even an Andrew Bynum (a couple seasons back before he was ravaged by injuries, he was playing REALLY REALLY well). As a basketball player, he can dominate a game with his defense and rebounding but he doesnt have the offensive game that would make him a great c. Bynum and Yao are two examples of guys, when healthy of course!!, who can dominate offensively while being a force in the paint defensively as well. Hell even sitting and trying to brainstorm good centers in this league, it's hard to find many if any great centers in the league currently.

Alright you've convinced me, but only in this era

[Scoot McGroot]

and Boneman, he gave record suspensions and fines because nothing like that had happened before in the NBA, with players beating up fans and going into the stands. Like you, i certainly was upset, but Stern had to come down hard on the players in this situation. I understand the Pacers and the bad breaks they've had but Stern didnt make Artest demand a trade or try to run over SJax with his car or cause any of the events at the Palace.

1) Vernon Maxwell ring a bell? Suspended 10 games for running into the stands and punching a fan in the face because the fan was making fun of Max's wife.

2) Artest was not present at the strip club incident where Stephen Jackson was run over with a car. Jackson was trying to shoot the guy that ran him over in the car. That was not Artest. Separate incidents.

[aquatic92]

and Boneman, he gave record suspensions and fines because nothing like that had happened before in the NBA, with players beating up fans and going into the stands. Like you, i certainly was upset, but Stern had to come down hard on the players in this situation. I understand the Pacers and the bad breaks they've had but Stern didnt make Artest demand a trade or try to run over SJax with his car or cause any of the events at the Palace.

1) Vernon Maxwell ring a bell? Suspended 10 games for running into the stands and punching a fan in the face because the fan was making fun of Max's wife.

2) Artest was not present at the strip club incident where Stephen Jackson was run over with a car. Jackson was trying to shoot the guy that ran him over in the car. That was not Artest. Separate incidents.

as i said in the other thread, sorry for the lack of clarity. I know that Artest was not involved in that car incident with Sjax, i was saying that Stern was obviously not the guy who tried to run over Sjax that caused Sjax to start shooting in the air.

About maxwell, just to make sure i looked at his bio and he had no incidents/suspensions/problems before he ran into the stands and punched a fan. Artest as well all know had problems such as throwing tv monitors, getting suspended for flagrants, among others. In Artest's and Jackson's case it was not limited to just 1 fan either. In addition to fighting in the stands, they were punching fans on the court. Thats why their punishments were worse than Maxwell's and later upheld by an arbitrator.

[Boneman2]

In addition to fighting in the stands, they were punching fans on the court.

You do realize that you said "fans on the court". There should be no mercy shown towards anybody willing to step on the court. They deserved to be punched in the jaw at the very minimum. Especially those two fat guys standing in front of the Pacers bench, JO's KO was crisp. The only guy I feel bad for is the one that Ron initially grabbed, the real cowardly perp pointed him in that direction, then starting punching Ron from behind.

Regardless, Unlike many NBA players, Ron never had a run in with the law until that night. Here the media vilified him, and now he is the hero of LA. I am glad the media has never guided my perception of anybody.

If players cannot enter the stands, than in all fairness, idiotic felonious fans should stay off the court.

[Scoot McGroot]

and Boneman, he gave record suspensions and fines because nothing like that had happened before in the NBA, with players beating up fans and going into the stands. Like you, i certainly was upset, but Stern had to come down hard on the players in this situation. I understand the Pacers and the bad breaks they've had but Stern didnt make Artest demand a trade or try to run over SJax with his car or cause any of the events at the Palace.

1) Vernon Maxwell ring a bell? Suspended 10 games for running into the stands and punching a fan in the face because the fan was making fun of Max's wife.

2) Artest was not present at the strip club incident where Stephen Jackson was run over with a car. Jackson was trying to shoot the guy that ran him over in the car. That was not Artest. Separate incidents.

as i said in the other thread, sorry for the lack of clarity. I know that Artest was not involved in that car incident with Sjax, i was saying that Stern was obviously not the guy who tried to run over Sjax that caused Sjax to start shooting in the air.

About maxwell, just to make sure i looked at his bio and he had no incidents/suspensions/problems before he ran into the stands and punched a fan. Artest as well all know had problems such as throwing tv monitors, getting suspended for flagrants, among others. In Artest's and Jackson's case it was not limited to just 1 fan either. In addition to fighting in the stands, they were punching fans on the court. Thats why their punishments were worse than Maxwell's and later upheld by an arbitrator.

I wasn't arguing the length of the suspension. You merely stated that it had "never happened before".

Well, it had. Vernon Maxwell did it first, around 10 years before Artest did it.

[Gremz]

La-la-la. Brawl didn't happen! *covers ears*