Rod Thorn and His Swamped Drafts

[Universe]

Since this arguement isn't going anywhere, someone please state to me why Rod Thorn wasn't bad at drafting.

[NyCeEvO]

Since this arguement isn't going anywhere, someone please state to me why Rod Thorn wasn't bad at drafting.

Actually the task is for you to define how a good gm drafts and find requisite examples of those who fit the criteria. Once that is established, you need to show by comparison to the other gms (that you state have better drafting ability) how Thorn is bad in comparison to them. You're the one who proposed the original standard and therefore you would need to back up your claim with convincing evidence that shows that Thorn's ability to draft players is subpar to other gms.

[Universe]

Since this arguement isn't going anywhere, someone please state to me why Rod Thorn wasn't bad at drafting.

Actually the task is for you to define how a good gm drafts and find requisite examples of those who fit the criteria. Once that is established, you need to show by comparison to the other gms (that you state have better drafting ability) how Thorn is bad in comparison to them. You're the one who proposed the original standard and therefore you would need to back up your claim with convincing evidence that shows that Thorn's ability to draft players is subpar to other gms.

I've backed it up pretty clearly. Two players in Rod Thorns era have lasted past their rookie contracts and one was Jason Collins. I don't need to rumage through other general managers history to know that is a bad stat and neither should you.



But everyone is entitled to their opinions and clearly you guys aren't upset with the money you spend on tickets, jerseys and other things you buy on this club going to wasted scouting and wasted picks.

[demens]

Here is a decent list:

http://www.sbnation.com/2010/7/22/15823 ... riley-heat

Shows an overview of the picks by each GM, although not all picks, its pretty easy to tell Thorn ranks pretty low. Even though he is 12th overall, thats mainly thanks to the 2 (+ draft day) trades he pulled off. Going by draft alone the guy is complete failure.

[Petro45]

Use hindsight to evaluate any GM's draft choices and you're going to find similar results. Thorn wasn't terrible at drafting.

That's just not true. The Nets lead the league in 1st round draft picks in the 2000s that are no longer in the league. That's simply a sign of bad drafting.

Thorn did a damn good job in 2001, did a great job drafting Nenad, and was fortunate enough for Lopez to fall into his lap. Other than that, he did not have a single first round draft pick that panned out this decade, which is a pretty poor track record even given our mid-to-late round draft picks. Some of the picks you can defend as reasonable at the time made -- Marcus and Sean Williams, for example. Others were rightfully lambasted at the time -- passing on Granger for Wright being the prime illustration. But on the aggregate, its impossible to dispute that Thorn's batting average on first round picks in the last ten years has been terrible.

[NyCeEvO]

Since this arguement isn't going anywhere, someone please state to me why Rod Thorn wasn't bad at drafting.

Actually the task is for you to define how a good gm drafts and find requisite examples of those who fit the criteria. Once that is established, you need to show by comparison to the other gms (that you state have better drafting ability) how Thorn is bad in comparison to them. You're the one who proposed the original standard and therefore you would need to back up your claim with convincing evidence that shows that Thorn's ability to draft players is subpar to other gms.

I've backed it up pretty clearly. Two players in Rod Thorns era have lasted past their rookie contracts and one was Jason Collins. I don't need to rumage through other general managers history to know that is a bad stat and neither should you.



But everyone is entitled to their opinions and clearly you guys aren't upset with the money you spend on tickets, jerseys and other things you buy on this club going to wasted scouting and wasted picks.

Well, first of all if you backed up your statements with sound facts and not mere opinion than I suppose most of us would have followed your logic and agreed with you. However, evidence to the contrary is shown that to be untrue.

When I say back it up with evidence, I mean at least do something like this. Look at the drafts between 2000-2010. Here's the only list I could find and it's from the first round of 2000-2008: http://www.nba.com/history/draft_round1_2000s.html

Looking at the Nets position in each of the drafts and considering the circumstances the Nets, we should more than one big mistake in the Nets draft selection to say that Thorn is a bad GM. Another criteria that you could use is to look at the picks directly after the Nets selection. This would serve as the team that picked up where the Nets really messed up.

Since we're going to disredit 2000, we'll go to the next year.
2001: The Nets drafted Eddie Griffin. Wow, what a waste. Oh wait, no actually the Nets traded away the career 7.2ppg/5.8rpg pothead for RJ, Jason Collins, and Brandon Armstrong. RJ alone is better than Griffin. RJ is still playing, Griffin was done after the 06-07 season. Guess what the "homework" showed for Eddie Griffin? "Earned Honorable Mention All-America honors from The Associated Press as a freshman at Seton Hall ... led Seton Hall with averages of 17.8 points, 10.8 rebounds and 4.4 blocks … voted Freshman of the Year by both the United States Basketball Writers Association and The Sporting News … earned selection to the All-Big East Second Team and became the first player in school history to be named Big East Rookie of the Year … ranked second in the nation in blocked shots and fifth in rebounding during his only season at Seton Hall ... set a single-season school record with 133 blocks … became the first player to ever win Big East Rookie of the Week honors for the first four weeks of the season".
And here is RJ in college: "Played three seasons at Arizona … averaged 11.2 points, 5.0 rebounds and 2.8 assists in 84 games … helped Arizona reach NCAA Tournament three times, losing to Duke in the 2001 NCAA Championship Game … as a junior, started 34 of 35 games, fi nishing second on the team in blocks (24), third in rebounding (5.4 rpg), third in assists (2.7 apg) and fourth in scoring (11.3 ppg).

Therefore, in '01 I think Rod saw the player that would meet your criteria and choose someone who would have staying power of another who did not.

2002: Nets select Nenad Krstic, who (before blowing out his ACL) was became a very good piece for the Nets the few years he played for us. Look at the teams who rounded out the first round? Did they select studs? No. To be fair, I looked at the second round of this draft. Carlos Boozer (35th pick) and Luis Scola (56th pick) are the only guys we'd say we missed out on. But wait, if we follow logic, we also have to say that every other GM other than Phoenix (who selected Amar'e), Miami (who selected Caron Butler) and maybe Detroit (who selected Prince) missed out on selecting those two since every other player is either not as good and/or is no longer in the NBA. Guess what? Despite having an ACL injury, Nenad is still in the NBA.

2003: We select Planinic (22nd) and Korver (51st) but Korver was traded away for cash considerations. Some of us might say there is the bad deal but wait a second. Our 2002-2003 Nets, beat the Bucks 4-2 in the first round of the playoffs, swept the Celtics 4-0 in the conference semis, swept the Pistons 4-0 in the ECF and lost 4-2 in the Finals against the Spurs. Are the Nets really thinking that a low first round draft pick or a second rounder will be the difference in a championship? No. At this point, we are like every Finals loser thinking, "we're almost there, just a little more we'll be champs". The picks for teams in that win or lose in the finals are expected to ride the bench or be traded away since they are thought to be not needed.

2004: We select Viktor Khryapa (22nd, whose rights were traded to Portland) and Christian Drejer (51st). Out of the second round, there are three guys that are still in the NBA and all three were selected before the 44th pick (Varejao, 30; Duhon, 38 [Chicago via Toronto]; Ariza, 43). I think it's fair to say that we couldn't do anything about the second round. After we selected in the first round, we did miss out on some players. Delonte West (24), Tony Allen (25), Kevin Martin (26), Sasha Vujacic (27), Beno Udrih(28). Kevin Martin is definitely the best player out of this group. Sure, the Nets needed a shooter but like most end of the first round players, there were questions about whether his game would translate to the NBA because he wasn't fast or quick and had an unorthodox style. Yes, we missed out on him but so did many other teams. I could see putting some blame here.

2005: With the 15th pick, we select Antoine Wright. I do remember being somewhat upset at the time for us selecting him. I thought that there were better players that we could have selected. I honestly wanted the Nets to select Warrick because he was a beast at Syracuse. I had no idea about Granger. During the draft, I heard he was a good college player but not much more. His collegiate highlights according to NBA.com are: "Earned First Team All-Mountain West Conference and First Team NABC District 13 his junior and senior seasons. Finished collegiate career at New Mexico after playing first one-and-a-half seasons at Bradley. Sat out the first semester of the 2003-04 season under NCAA transfer rules. Ranks in the top 10 in career blocked shots at both New Mexico and Bradley." However, the reason why he was considered a lower pick is the same reason why I didn't really know of him. You gain recognition and respect by being a better player in a better conference. I thought (like most people Warrick was good) because he played well in the Big East and the Big East > MWC. No one was guaranteeing or saw that Granger would be as good as he would become including the Pacers. They were looking for a SF to replace Artest due to the Malice at the Palace brawl earlier that season. If that doesn't happen, Granger doesn't even get selected by them.

Looking at the rest of the guys in the 1st round, you could only point and say "David Lee" or "Jason Maxiell". No need to take a Jarrett Jack, Nate Robinson, Luther Head or Francisco Garcia (even though he's not a point) when Kidd is still playing like Kidd. While Maxiell and Lee are better than Wright, if it was so easy to "do your homework" and know these guys would be solid players, why would so many other teams not select them? Even today, you would still say that undersized PFs have a hard time succeeding in the league. Both are undersized and just beat the odds. Explaining the second round is just simply a waste of time.

2006: Marcus Williams and Josh Boone, 21st and 22nd respectively. Everyone and their mama thought the Nets did an excellent job drafting the successor of Kidd for the Nets franchise. You can't even use the Rajon Rondo excuse that other people use because he was already off the board. (Plus I believe that Rondo is more of a product of Pierce/Allen/KG forcing and pressuring him to get better rather than he just doing it completely on his own.) I don't why we have to explain to people why this draft was thought to have went well especially considering the mediocre talent selected after our picks. The most notable pick after ours in the draft was Paul Millsap, the 47th pick. A diamond in the rough type player.

2007: We get Sean Williams. My personal preference at the time was Marco Bellinelli. Looking at the rest of the first round, the only player I see people may grumble about is Wilson Chandler and that is a big "may". Again, we don't take PGs since we now have Marcus and Kidd. Therefore Aaron Brooks argument is squashed. He had his defensive moments here and there and the latest reports are that he's trying to show that he's matured and can play on an NBA roster. For what the potential was, others may be able to fault the Nets but I cannot. We didn't have a second round pick.

2008: Brook Lopez and Ryan Anderson. Enough said.
2009: Terrence Williams is TBD. I was hoping that the Nets would select them and they did.
2010: Derrick Favors. Looks to be good but TBD.

When I say make an argument, this is what I mean. 10 years of drafting covered with 10 years of analysis. There's only once where I could say that we probably could have done a better job and that was in '04. Outside of that, IMO there wasn't much else we could do and the players that turned out better that were picked later were missed by everyone else as well. That would qualify the player as a diamond in the rough. I can forgive '04 considering that we traded away Griffin for RJ and drafted Lopez and Anderson. Like most people have said, drafting is like mostly like a lottery for teams not in the top 3-4. To say that Rod Thorn or any GM for that matter should have a crystal ball and predict how well a player will be given all the variables (of desire, PT, skill, talent against player and the list goes on) is absolute ludicrous. If and when you respond, please provide solid evidence to the contrary and rationally explain how I was wrong in the instances you disagree with and show Thorn just drafted bad rather than had no other choice or just had bad luck. Hopefully, this suffices as a rebuttal for E lol.

[jeff1624]

I wouldn't include 2004 in any argument regarding Thorn's drafting ability. The team had just been sold to ratner and he wanted to cut cost right away.

I also don't think it's fair to say that only 2 draft picks lasted past their rookie deals. K-Mart was a pretty damn good pick, he just wasn't worth the max which is why he only lasted 4 years in a Nets uniform. Krstic was also an excellent pick who at one point averaged 17 and 7. Not too shabby for a pick in the 20's.. it sucks he suffered a major injury that derailed his career... again, not Thorn's fault.

[enetric]

That's you validation of criticizing the draft process? The average for an NBA team is to turn over its roster every 3 years....or roughly, less than the time frame of a rook contract.

And the head up the ass comment wasn't specific for you...its was this constant after the fact criticism of who was taken after a team's picks to validate good or bad drafting. Its straight up ignorance. You will find similar results over a decade for all teams. You need to break down the expectation per the area of the draft your picks are being made...and understand the thinking behind the moves at the times.

Marcus Williams...who I absolutely hated from almost day 1....we got an A for that draft by every single source out there. No one could believe we got a guy projected as the best PG in the draft that low. So because he sucked we FAILED? Absolutely not! That was worse than the 20 something teams that passed on Rondo taken one pick earlier????

Need to realize how silly this is to be dealing with it years later. Opportunity, and system will also play into future stats and NBA success.

Nenad was an absolute steal where we got him and was on track to be an all star in this league before his injury. But you want to give an angle like....past rook contract? Rod Thorn is accountable for his ACL injury?

I wont sit around ripping management for not doing better than Boone, or Planinic with late picks either. That's what you get with late picks more often than you get a Tony Parker or Arenas, or David Lee. Those standouts are the exception not the norm...and those type of steals are spread out across the league. Its not like there are 3 teams constantly making these great finds.

You don't understand the point. Just because media sources gave us high grades on the Marcus Williams pick, he was still a bust. Teams passed over him for a reason yet Rod picked him. Yes other teams pass over players too and I'm not saying Rod Thorn is the worst drafter ever but I'll repeat myself yet again. It's been nine years since a rookie has lasted past his rookie contract. Look around the league and you can see which teams still have players that have lasted past that.

And Nenad Krstic was a steal. And what happened with his knee was not Thorns fault but it still happened.

It has NOTHING to do with the other GM's because this is Rod Thorn and the Nets. The picks were there and he messed up from risking on troubled players to drafting Europeans. We are in this position because of that and if you fail to realize what a horrible job drafting he's done then so be it.

Every player at some point in a draft has VALUE. It becomes a WOW...good time to take this guy. Sometimes you bet right, and sometimes you bet wrong. But you cannot look at it after the fact and say that lame ass angle for who we still have after their first contract! We were in the playoffs for SIX straight years. You are whining about mostly 22-25 overall picks! You see a lot of guys drafted in those spots still in the NBA over that time period...or still with their first team after their rook contract????

Its not odd at all. And its unrealistic for you to expect we should have been able to land all 5-10 steals in a decade found at those picks. They are hit and miss. He did well with his high picks. Kmart, RJ, Twill, Favors, Brook. Those were all the right picks. And add one steal in Nenad.

You want to whine about MARCUS WILLIAMS????? At #22...he was the BEST possible pick on the board. Now...had he gone to Boston one pick earlier...and we passed on Rondo for Lowry....bitch away. But to complain that we used a LOW pick on a HIGH upside guy? That shows ignorance on your part.

As for this so called position we are in? What the freakin hell are you talking about? We are in a GREAT position. We had a 6 year playoff run with 3 contending seasons. And since we have been rebuilding....adding Brook, Twil, Favors and James since the rebuild. Any complaints so far????

You think had we done better in those playoff years...than Marcus Williams, Boone, Sean Williams we would be in a massively better position? Thorn screwed us is your argument? OK...lets prove it. Lets find all these great picks we passed over.

2007-
17- New Jersey Nets Sean Williams, Forward/Center, Boston College

Please tell me how many of these superstars we passed on from 18-30 radically change our fortunes?
I find ONE special player taken in thirteen picks. Does that not tell you what a crap shoot these picks are???? Work that second contract bull crap angle with this batch as well....

Golden State Warriors Marco Belinelli, Guard, Italy
Los Angeles Lakers Javaris Crittenton, Guard, Georgia Tech
Miami Heat Jason Smith, Forward/Center, Colorado State (to Philadelphia)
Philadelphia 76ers (from Denver) Daequan Cook, Guard, Ohio State (to Miami)
Charlotte Bobcats (from Toronto) Jared Dudley, Forward, Boston College
New York Knicks (from Chicago) Wilson Chandler, Forward, DePaul
Phoenix Suns (from Cleveland) Rudy Fernandez, Guard, Spain (to Portland)
Utah Jazz Morris Almond, Guard, Rice
Houston Rockets Aaron Brooks, Guard, Oregon
Detroit Pistons Arron Afflalo, Guard, UCLA
San Antonio Spurs Tiago Splitter, Forward, Brazil
Phoenix Suns Alando Tucker, Forward, Wisconsin
Philadelphia 76ers (from Dallas) Petteri Koponen, Guard, Finland (to Portland)

How about 2006?

22- New Jersey Nets (from L.A. Clippers) Marcus Williams, Guard, Connecticut
23- New Jersey Nets Josh Boone, Forward, Connecticut

Which one of these rock stars are you over the moon about??? How many of them are still playing with their original teams? LOTS OF STUDS HERE! Ironically...again..the best player in the batch just signed with us.

Memphis Grizzlies Kyle Lowry, Guard, Villanova
Cleveland Cavaliers Shannon Brown, Guard, Michigan State
L.A. Lakers (from Miami) Jordan Farmar, Guard, UCLA
Phoenix Suns Sergio Rodriguez, Guard, Spain (to Portland)
Dallas Mavericks Maurice Ager, Guard, Michigan State
New York Knicks (from San Antonio) Mardy Collins, Guard, Temple
Portland Trail Blazers (from Detroit) Joel Freeland, Forward, United Kingdom

Starting to get how terrible your argument is? Willing to concede that you are way off the mark here???? That there weren't a ton of greatness passed over? Still NO????

2005???

Finally a draft with MORE than one guy we shouldn't have passed over. TWO guys we missed. One of the few drafts in the entire decade you can rip. The first Granger...like 10 of the other top 15 picks...we passed for fear of his knee and a true need at SG that year. We made a mistake. And David Lee at #30? Wow. I guess you should kill Rod for that one. What do you figure? Along with 28 other GM's in this draft???? Beyond that?? See a lot of guys that would have radically changed our so called position way back in 2005-2007?

15 New Jersey Nets Antoine Wright, Texas A&M
16 Toronto Raptors Joey Graham, Oklahoma State
17 Indiana Pacers Danny Granger, New Mexico
18 Boston Celtics Gerald Green, Gulf Shores Acad (TX)
19 Memphis Grizzlies Hakim Warrick, Syracuse
20 Denver Nuggets Julius Hodge, North Carolina State
21 Phoenix Suns (to New York) Nate Robinson, Washington
22 Denver Nuggets (to Portland) Jarrett Jack, Georgia Tech
23 Sacramento Kings Francisco Garcia, Louisville
24 Houston Rockets Luther Head, Illinois
25 Seattle SuperSonics Johan Petro, France
26 Detroit Pistons Jason Maxiell, Cincinnati
27 Portland Trail Blazers (to Denver) Linas Kleiza, Missouri
28 San Antonio Spurs Ian Mahinmi, STB Le Havre (France)
29 Miami Heat Wayne Simien, Kansas
30 New York Knicks David Lee, Florida

2004...We SOLD that #22 pick for cash. Some role guys, and one good player taken later than our pick...the oft injured Kevin Martin was taken. He would have been nice to have. Is that Rod's fault? Do we hold him accountable for selling the pick? Or do you recognize WHY that pick was sold? That it had to do with ownership...NOT management. That was a cash decision...not a ROD decision....based on what was happening with the franchise. Sorry...I don't know how anyone can pin that one on him..and still...ONE needle in the haystack to be found anyway....

22 New Jersey Viktor Khryapa | F | 6-9 | 210 Russia | Rights traded to POR

23 Portland (from MEM) Sergei Monia | F | 6-8 | 220 Russia
24 Boston (from DAL) Delonte West | G | 6-4 | 180 St. Joseph's
25 Boston (from DET) Tony Allen | G | 6-4 | 213 Oklahoma State
26 Sacramento Kevin Martin | G | 6-7 | 185 Western Carolina
27 L.A. Lakers Sasha Vujacic | G | 6-7 | 193 Slovenia
28 San Antonio Beno Udrih | G | 6-3 | 203 Slovenia
29 Indiana David Harrison | C | 7-0 | 250 Colorado

2003...Congrats...we finally got Outlaw. Delfino had his best year ever last year. Perkins found a role on Boston after they traded everyone else in the KG deal...and has made a name for himself on a great team. Think he does that had he gone anywhere else? Barbosa had some short lived value....Ditto Howard...who I for one am GLAD we didn't have for that second contract you spoke of. Zoran was a bust....no doubt about that. But again...#22...I really didn't have a problem rolling the Euro dice after success with Nenad at #24 a year earlier. Overseas scouts got us a true steal with a late pick...I am OK taking another shot. Hell...I wanted Rudy in the Sean Williams draft...who I think could still be decent...but hasn't panned out so far. Euro guys in late picks have actually done better by percentage than US kids have done over the last 10 years, so...oh well. Not crying about it. He was a huge oversized guard that had talent. Didn't work out.

22- New Jersey - Zoran Planinic, Croatia
Portland - Travis Outlaw, Starkville HS
L.A. Lakers - Brian Cook, Illinois
Detroit - Carlos Delfino, Argentina
Minnesota - Ndudi Ebi, Westbury Christian HS
Memphis - Kendrick Perkins (to Boston)
San Antonio - Leandro Barbosa (to Phoenix)
Dallas - Josh Howard, Wake Forest

56 picks made in 5 years from our pick and below. In all those picks...the only ones that were special....

Brooks at #27 in 2007 Houston (would have seen very little time with us)
Granger at #17 in 2005 Indiana
D.Lee at #30 in 2005 New York
Kevin Martin at #26 in 2004 Sacramento

FOUR in 56 picks. Two of them onto their second teams, a third shopped during the draft. BTW, 4 in 56...that's 7% of these guys who became special. A few others were role players, and a lot of busts. We got Nenad in 2002 at #24, best of the last 5 picks taken that year...and best pick other than Prince after pick #11. The point is...getting one steal late in the draft in 6 years isn't that bad when you are dealing with 7%.

2001 was the RJ draft...which I actually think wasn't a great draft while most go nuts over it. Twin should have been Zach...and Armstrong over both Parker and Arenas was bad drafting. When you trade down for multiple picks...its the LOWER picks that define the draft not the higher one. You could have just drafted RJ with Griffin and been done with it. Yes, we got RJ right...but the lower picks while crap shoots...going for a big with someone that good ONE PICK later and a PG with TWO right after still on the board plus Crash...dissapointing.

2000- Kmart. EASILY could have muffed that. Kmart with the bad leg, terrible work outs for us as well...still got it right Fizer, and Swift were not considered much less at the time...in the worst draft of all time. Kmart getting dealt...turned out great. So that second contract yack is laughable. It happened because of the team sale...but, in the end...got us Carter and avoided one of the WORST second contracts in the league since it was signed.

There you go. A complete breakdown.

Please don't talk if you don't know what you are talking about. I will ALWAYS do the homework. You shouldn't rely on some jackass writing some obscure after the fact article that doesn't tell the whole story. Rod had some big successes, and NOT one DISASTER. Why? Because you cant have disasters late in the draft. What you have is missed opportunities that in all honestly...are rare finds as it is. MOST of the league will have those same missed opportunities when steals late in the draft are as rare as 7%. Want to be mad about Wright over Granger? No problem. But most of the rest are really a reach.

[enetric]

Since this arguement isn't going anywhere, someone please state to me why Rod Thorn wasn't bad at drafting.

Actually the task is for you to define how a good gm drafts and find requisite examples of those who fit the criteria. Once that is established, you need to show by comparison to the other gms (that you state have better drafting ability) how Thorn is bad in comparison to them. You're the one who proposed the original standard and therefore you would need to back up your claim with convincing evidence that shows that Thorn's ability to draft players is subpar to other gms.

I've backed it up pretty clearly. Two players in Rod Thorns era have lasted past their rookie contracts and one was Jason Collins. I don't need to rumage through other general managers history to know that is a bad stat and neither should you.



But everyone is entitled to their opinions and clearly you guys aren't upset with the money you spend on tickets, jerseys and other things you buy on this club going to wasted scouting and wasted picks.

This is such an idiotic argument. THis second contract garbage. Its about as valid as saying how many guys were from Connecticut. CAN YOU BELIEVE HOW FEW THERE WERE????

You have to qualify your argument comapred to something...you have to demonstrate what good looks like. Again....an NBA team averages a complete roster turnover every three years...or roughly the time frame of that rookie contract.

Your argument is like saying...

Derek Jeter cant hit. I mean can you believe it? He fails to get a hit 69% of the time!!!!


Compared to what is a success and what is failure...he did a great job, And in this case...success and failure expectations have to be tempered based on where the pick was made. Im sorry but these were Olowokandi picks. They were late first round picks with a low chance of success...and history proves it. Your argument is horrid. Get over it...

[enetric]

From reading through...I cant believe you actually included 2nd rounders. I didnt even speak to them since the success ratio drops to about 1%. There is no tangible argument to hold a Gm accountable for 2nd round failures. Find a gem? GREAT.

[NyCeEvO]

From reading through...I cant believe you actually included 2nd rounders. I didnt even speak to them since the success ratio drops to about 1%. There is no tangible argument to hold a Gm accountable for 2nd round failures. Find a gem? GREAT.

Haha...in hindisght, I probably wasted time going through the 2nd Rounder but since we've already seen so much nonsense, I didn't want to leave any stone unturned. Even though by the end of the first round and everyone walks away from their tv because the second round is pretty much a joke, I didn't want to hear any second round excuse/BS. You and I both have made the point that you have to establish a standard of good before you can determine who/what is bad in comparison to the good. I don't know why people continue to make the argument that Rod is bad, don't establish how he is bad in comparison to a pool of other GMs/draft, and then when we show how the Nets draft like any other GM would, they disagree. We're not even talking about the trades he pulled off to get Kidd and VC. An example of bad drafting would be selecting Darko Milicic right before Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, and D-Wade in the same draft class. That's a legitimate mistake.

[enetric]

Rod was one of the elite GM's in the NBA over the last decade. ELITE. His trade misses were reasonable...his trade success was solid. His trades were outstanding. His cap management was outstanding. The ability to attract better free agents...is the market. NJ is a small market...and that is a handicap in most sports. Its why I have been an advocate of Brooklyn since day one. It will add the free agent option we never had.

Rod's worst mistakes were SAR.....(not passing on him, but not waiting for the physical before announcing) and the misuse of the large TPE we had with Uncle Cliffy/who was the guy we wasted the small one on first? Was it Magloire? Dont even remember.

As for the second round comment....I was directing that at Universe. 1%. 1 freekin percent!!!!!

[demens]

From reading through...I cant believe you actually included 2nd rounders. I didnt even speak to them since the success ratio drops to about 1%. There is no tangible argument to hold a Gm accountable for 2nd round failures. Find a gem? GREAT.

Haha...in hindisght, I probably wasted time going through the 2nd Rounder but since we've already seen so much nonsense, I didn't want to leave any stone unturned. Even though by the end of the first round and everyone walks away from their tv because the second round is pretty much a joke, I didn't want to hear any second round excuse/BS. You and I both have made the point that you have to establish a standard of good before you can determine who/what is bad in comparison to the good. I don't know why people continue to make the argument that Rod is bad, don't establish how he is bad in comparison to a pool of other GMs/draft, and then when we show how the Nets draft like any other GM would, they disagree. We're not even talking about the trades he pulled off to get Kidd and VC. An example of bad drafting would be selecting Darko Milicic right before Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, and D-Wade in the same draft class. That's a legitimate mistake.

Try 20%. Unless you suck at math then nevermind.

[enetric]

Bull. About 1% make any sort of significant impact, the rare Boozer or Redd. I am doubtful its even 20% that last more than 3 years in the NBA....and even if it is that high? So SIX in 30???? Basically???? YOU CAN SHUT UP NOW. You just proved the overall point which you quoted out of context.

[Cruzeirao]

Rod's worst mistakes were SAR.....(not passing on him, but not waiting for the physical before announcing) and the misuse of the large TPE we had with Uncle Cliffy/who was the guy we wasted the small one on first? Was it Magloire? Dont even remember.

As for the second round comment....I was directing that at Universe. 1%. 1 freekin percent!!!!!

It was Elden Campbell. And later we waived him.

I will always be mad because we didn't draft Splitter.

I always said that he was the best brazilian player. Better than Nene, Barbosa and Varejao...
And now he will be the best center to play with Duncan since Robinson.

[enetric]

I am looking forward to finally seeing him play. He was supposed to be alottery pick. Then a low st rounder...then took years to come here. Looking forward to finally seeing what he can do here.

[jerseyjac]

Not a fan of the Spurs for so many reasons....but they might have a run left in them if Splitter pans out...