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If CP3 Ends Up A Net, can Lopez play the 4?

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If CP3 Ends Up A Net, can Lopez play the 4? 

Post#1 » by SOUP » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:51 pm

Then don't you guys think it would be better to start Brook at the 4? Don't even start arguing we might not have to give up Favors, its a dream scenario even giving up Favors. But if the trade break down was like this:

Favors
Devin
T.Will
2011 1st

For:

CP3
Okafor

Don't you guys think Lopez can be very affective at the 4 in his third year ala David West? Lopez has great range, and he is no slow poke.

CP3/Farmar
Morrow/C.Lee
Outlaw/D.James
Lopez/Kris
Okafor/Petro

CP3 and Lopez both become superstars, we dump Okafor + Outlaw (after a very productive first half season) for an expiring and sign Melo next year.

CP3/Farmar
Morrow/C.Lee
Melo/D.James
Lopez/Kris
? /Petro

:droop:

CP3, Lopez, Melo > Wade, LeBron, Bosh

Our guys would compliment each other much more.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#2 » by SOUP » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:10 pm

Sign Carl Landry: Switch Brook back to the 5.

CP3/Farmar
Morrow/C.Lee
Melo/D.James
Landry/Kris
Lopez/Petro

Legit contenders.

Ok dreaming too much. :lol:
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#3 » by treiz » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:00 pm

Can't Okafor play in the 4? I think he'd be much better there for us IF this scenario does happen.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#4 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:06 pm

1) You ask why not have Brook play the 4? Well, he's not a PF to begin with. He's a very skilled center. You say that he's not a slow poke. Therefore he'd have an even greater advantage against Cs since they're slower than PFs. Plus, West is a PF who has greater range that Lopez anyway. They're two different type of players. Brook plays with his back to the basket and West is more of a face-up PF.

2) You're asking to start a 7 footer at PF and a 6'10 PF at C. You just don't do that any level of basketball (unless you have a freak of an athlete like Ben Wallace during his prime).

3)You really expect Denver to give up their superstar for two solid, but not great players with 4+ years on their contracts. A lot of people consider Outlaw to be overpaid and everyone knows that Okafor IS overpaid. Why Denver accepts that deal from us is beyond me. And we haven't even gotten past the fact that Melo doesn't want a 3 year/$65 million extension, which he won't get under the next CBA.

However, I'm glad that you realize that you're dreaming too much. But I do think that most of us wouldn't want the dream scenario to go this way because that final team is not the dynasty type of team that Proky has been talking about.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#5 » by mikhailjordan » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:09 pm

Okafor has lead feet, he can't play the 4 so by default Lopez would have to...
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#6 » by SOUP » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:47 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
However, I'm glad that you realize that you're dreaming too much. But I do think that most of us wouldn't want the dream scenario to go this way because that final team is not the dynasty type of team that Proky has been talking about.


You realize Okafor can't play the 4 right? And what type of dynasty are you banking on? Don't try me ballboy, I'm no Demens or Bobcats fan I will tear you a new one.

:wink:

We won't trade for Melo, we will just sign him (unlikely). Think before you call out other members you might embarrass yourself.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#7 » by SOUP » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:00 pm

This is not me thinking this will happen. It's all scenarios.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#8 » by namakiri » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:35 pm

soup, you bring up some very good ideas. To begin with Lopez should not play center because okafor is a pf.

Nextly, trading for Cp3 could be very good but we would need to be able to clear up cap space to sign carmelo in the offseason which would be alot easier. We would have an edge over the knicks and with a lineup including lopez, paul, and melo and great backups like we have, there is no doubt we would be championsip contenders. However, we should not give up favors even if we get okafor. We should not plan on taking toooo many contracts. we should really want to still have cap space for melo. If we do make this trade for cp3, we should publicly announce our interest for sf melo so cp3 has something to look forward to and have the drive to actually play. we should also even try to start negotiatin with melo perhaps recieving him in a sign and trade and giving away guys like posey and okafor that we recieved in the cp3 trade.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#9 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:12 pm

SOUP wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
However, I'm glad that you realize that you're dreaming too much. But I do think that most of us wouldn't want the dream scenario to go this way because that final team is not the dynasty type of team that Proky has been talking about.


You realize Okafor can't play the 4 right? And what type of dynasty are you banking on? Don't try me ballboy, I'm no Demens or Bobcats fan I will tear you a new one.

:wink:

We won't trade for Melo, we will just sign him (unlikely). Think before you call out other members you might embarrass yourself.

Oh yes, I'm very scared now.

First of all, I was quoting the statement that you made about your own scenario. Calling someone out about the number of posts they've made is just childish so I won't even comment on that. If you wanted to be technical, you should look at the posts per day ratio for both of us and then comment.

Second of all, there is not a single NBA coach that would play Lopez at the 4 because they have Okafor and one thinks he's too slow to play the four. Star players dictate how the team is organized, not players like Okafor. Go to NBA.com and he's listed Foward-Center. The two seasons that he actually played PF his stats pretty much remained the same. Power forwards aren't just based upon speed anyway.

Third, of all I'm not calling the Nets a dynasty. If you read or watched the interview that Prokhorov made a few weeks ago and we've all made reference to, he is the one who said that he wants the Nets to be a dynasty and he wants the process to be one in which we're not forming just a good team, but a dynasty.

Fourth, all of our "scenarios" are dreams at this point. We all recognize that they are long shots until we actually have evidence to the contrary. I was simply applying what I believe to be NBA and common knowledge to this scenario, so the thought process was fully there. I'm not afraid of being embarrassed because I know that my comments only add to (not hinder) the discussion. I stand by my words until others provide conclusive and persuasive evidence. I've changed my mind before about issues and I've been wrong. I just haven't seen enough evidence yet to do so.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#10 » by Jersey Generals » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:19 pm

Lopez would get torched by most pfs.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#11 » by SOUP » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:21 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
SOUP wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
However, I'm glad that you realize that you're dreaming too much. But I do think that most of us wouldn't want the dream scenario to go this way because that final team is not the dynasty type of team that Proky has been talking about.


You realize Okafor can't play the 4 right? And what type of dynasty are you banking on? Don't try me ballboy, I'm no Demens or Bobcats fan I will tear you a new one.

:wink:

We won't trade for Melo, we will just sign him (unlikely). Think before you call out other members you might embarrass yourself.

Oh yes, I'm very scared now.

First of all, I was quoting the statement that you made about your own scenario. Calling someone out about the number of posts they've made is just childish so I won't even comment on that. If you wanted to be technical, you should look at the posts per day ratio for both of us and then comment.

Second of all, there is not a single NBA coach that would play Lopez at the 4 because they have Okafor and one thinks he's too slow to play the four. Star players dictate how the team is organized, not players like Okafor. Go to NBA.com and he's listed Foward-Center. The two seasons that he actually played PF his stats pretty much remained the same. Power forwards aren't just based upon speed anyway.

Third, of all I'm not calling the Nets a dynasty. If you read or watched the interview that Prokhorov made a few weeks ago and we've all made reference to, he is the one who said that he wants the Nets to be a dynasty and he wants the process to be one in which we're not forming just a good team, but a dynasty.

Fourth, all of our "scenarios" are dreams at this point. We all recognize that they are long shots until we actually have evidence to the contrary. I was simply applying what I believe to be NBA and common knowledge to this scenario, so the thought process was fully there. I'm not afraid of being embarrassed because I know that my comments only add to (not hinder) the discussion. I stand by my words until others provide conclusive and persuasive evidence. I've changed my mind before about issues and I've been wrong. I just haven't seen enough evidence yet to do so.


You do realize that this was a thread on Brook playing PF right? The rest was just things that shouldn´t be taken to heart like they were, you´re trying to seem smart when you come off as that one kid in school trying to fit in he just looks desperate. No one else freaked out like you did. Calm down kid.

So you think a team consisting of CP3, Melo, and Brook is just a good team? I need to stop humoring myself with ballboys.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#12 » by enetric » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:11 pm

Settle down...

First off...I agree One of the bigs will get traded if we land Paul. Brook or Favors. However, I am hopeful we can keep Twill out of the deal in that sceanrio.


As for line ups...I am always amazed how much fans put a baseball like spin line ups. Typically making decisions based on who plays what spot. Not saying that was done here initially...but it always seems to get in the way with logic.

First off...Soup...the issue isnt who can do what on offense. THee are perimeter centers....and interior 4's. None of that matters. What matters is defense.

Brook CANNOT guar anyone away from the hoop. He is a center...PERIOD He is a rebounder, and help shot blocker...can take a guy o the blocks...but cannot take any quick 4's who can put it on the floor away from the hoop. You have seen it...he gets torched.

In the end? Dont over think that part of it. Not the end all be all in this situation.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#13 » by Rockice_8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:28 pm

1. Lopez isn't a PF not even close so no he can't play the PF spot

2. OK4 would be the backup center and we would move Petro to the backup PF. I think OK4 could handle PF better then Lopez.

3. In no way am including Favors in any CP3 deal that takes back OK4 and thats what they want. NO can't have our best prospect and dump their worst contract. When guys want out you don't get fair value in return. So you want Favors you keep OK4.

4. Truthfully adding CP3 is a huge risk for us (injury concerns and losing all flexibility) so I would offer T-Will, Lee, Harris, Hump, 2011 1st unprotected and the GS pick. Take it or leave it. Realistically I would like ot keep Lee out but if that was the deal breaker then bye bye.

CP3/Farmar
Morrow/Ross
Outlaw/James
Favors/OK4
Lopez/Petro

That is a legit team right there. CP3 would speed up Favors development so fast just throwing it up for him on the pick and roll all day with Lopez roaming the baseline and Morrow/Lee and Outlaw/James spreading the floor. That would make us the top team in the Atlantic IMO, since the C's coast in the regular season and could decline quickly. Is it better then Miami/Orlando maybe? We would be in the discussion though now and into the future and maybe be a piece away from being able to pull off that upset.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#14 » by enetric » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:38 pm

I think you are wrong about Oka5 starting, but not worth debating it.

And I would love it if you are right about that package. I dont think it gets it done. I have said over and over...you dont get full value...but Paul/Okafor for Devin/Favors is NOT full value.

We offered that package for Paul on draft day and were turned down. Does taking Okafor get them to lower the price? It depends on what offers they have out there.

Examples:
Kings offer their cap space plus Cousins/Casspi and expiring.

Rubio+ALL cap space.

Now what?

I mean you have to put offers in perspective to what others might offer. I think we beat Orlando with that offer. We probably beat the Knicks even with your offer....but, will they offer up Gallo plus Randolph?

Portland will start with Oden and expirings.

Be realistic is all I am saying. What will matter more for them? Best talent package or cash savings? We'll see. When it gets to Decemenr 15th...give us more flexibility...but it gives a lot of other teams flexibility too. PLus, our cap space compared to expring contract becomes less of an advantage since those expring contracts will be prorated.
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Re: If Our Wet Dream Comes True And CP3 Ends Up A Net... 

Post#15 » by mikhailjordan » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:06 am

Dunno I made a thread about Okafor playing the four on the Bobcats board before and they pretty much confirmed what I've seen... Okafor has lead feet.
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Re: If CP3 Ends Up A Net, can Lopez play the 4? 

Post#16 » by NyCeEvO » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:34 pm

(Sorry about all of the side commentary before. It wasn't necessary or needed at all.)

As far as the topic is concerned, here's where I think the key lies though...

If we were building the team around Okafor as our best big man, then I would say "yes, put him at the position that suits him the best". If his speed (or lack thereof) makes him play the position of C than PF, then he would obviously play C. However, since Lopez is the better big man, we would play Lopez at the position that suits him better and then see where Okafor fits in. The better player dictates how the lineups are orchestrated, not one attribute about a lesser player.

If lineups were solely based upon the speed of players, then I can see your point. But things are much more complicated than that. Since the position of PF is a naturally more athletic position than C, you're going to have quicker and more athletic defenders on Lopez. In addition to that, Lopez would have to guard quicker and more athletic PFs as well. The height advantage he would have could very well be negated by the fact that he would be chasing guys like Amare, Dirk, Bosh, Rashard Lewis (since they play him at PF), KG, Brand, Boozer, Villanueva, Horford, Tyrus Thomas, Scola, D. West, Z. Randolph, L. Aldridge, Al Jefferson, Kevin Love, David Lee, Blake Griffin, etc. Obviously, I'm not saying that these guys are better than Lopez but what would kill him would be their agility/speed, ability to stretch the floor and draw Lopez away from the basket (which is not his forte at defending). Lopez would be so tired from trying to run around and defend Dirk in the post, key, and 3 point line that his energy on offense would deteriorate. We'd be left with slow, tired post moves and opponents sending late double teams to either take it away from him or block him.

On the other side, we would have Okafor at the center position. What we achieve in having his speed match that of the opponent's slowest player, we would lose in other categories. Most of the time, the opponent's C would be taller and longer. While Okafor might be able to keep with the other C, he'd also have to make sure that his athleticism would overcome the height/length difference.

To me it just seems that we'd killing our better big man by having him play the four due to a lesser player's speed.

IMO it's similar to when people argue against playing LeBron at PG. We look at him and say he's a better passer and faster than Mo Williams. A PG's role is to set up the play, pass, and get the ball up the court, therefore LBJ should be the PG right? Even though the difference between LBJ and MO is so great I could really see why people want him at PG, the fact is that defensively it would cause problems. Instead of guarding slower SF that he would dominate all of the time, you're immediately having him guard smaller, faster PGs. Sure, he may able to "defend" by chasing them down and blocking their shot off the backboard once or twice a game but that chase down block situation doesn't happen often enough. You know what does happen a lot though? The pick and roll game. LBJ would constantly be fighting off screens and switching off to guard Cs as PGs use the pick and roll against him. You'd be tiring him out for no reason. Plus, even if the pick and roll wasn't used, when have we actually seen stellar on-ball or man-to-man defense by LeBron in the half-court defense set that we should us that he can guard PGs one-on-one all of the time. (That's a completely different issue but I don't know how you get on All-Defense First Team when you don't really defend lol. At least we've seen Kobe hound opponents in man-to-man defense sets.) But back to the analogy, Mo Williams would then have to guard bigger, longer players and has the potential to get destroyed trying to keep up with the likes of Melo, Pierce, Artest, Granger, etc.

I hope I haven't lost you all with the analogy but I was just trying to show a similar case in which by using speed to create a potential mismatch on one end, you can lose a lot of things in other areas, which would be a greater detriment to the team.


Sorry for going off topic, Soup. I should've just wrote this the first time. And even though it's not a Nets related issue, I wish we could discuss that LBJ-all-star defense issue. :D
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Re: If CP3 Ends Up A Net, can Lopez play the 4? 

Post#17 » by SOUP » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:55 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:

Sorry for going off topic, Soup. I should've just wrote this the first time. And even though it's not a Nets related issue, I wish we could discuss that LBJ-all-star defense issue. :D


It´s cool man, I´ve done my fair share of mistakes here. Ask JJ or RR. :lol:

:wordyo:
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Re: If CP3 Ends Up A Net, can Lopez play the 4? 

Post#18 » by NoStatsGuy » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:56 pm

a little bit off topic...

just wondering if devin harris is actually healthy or is he still fighting with the ankle?
im bout dat action boss
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Re: If CP3 Ends Up A Net, can Lopez play the 4? 

Post#19 » by NyCeEvO » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:37 pm

Zup11 wrote:a little bit off topic...

just wondering if devin harris is actually healthy or is he still fighting with the ankle?

A little bit off topic? At least Soup and I mentioned Lopez in short rants against each other haha!

To answer the question, one can never really tell. If you look at his game log, he had a healthy starters' minutes the final four games of the season but who knows if he was just trying to finish strong. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here but the only way to really know would be to ask him. I hope he remains healthy for the rest of his career but I REALLY hope that he remains healthy enough so that he can be included in any big deal as a healthy asset.

Here's his gamelog btw: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/g ... yerId=2382
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Re: If CP3 Ends Up A Net, can Lopez play the 4? 

Post#20 » by enetric » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:21 pm

Zup11 wrote:a little bit off topic...

just wondering if devin harris is actually healthy or is he still fighting with the ankle?



In one of these threads we have going I detailed a list of all the injuries he has had over the last 2 years. He isnt just ONE nagging injury...he is a head to toe hurt just about everything kind of a guy. If it isnt one thing its another....so honestly? SUCK IT UP. Get through a season playing 78+ games.

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