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Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick

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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#41 » by tidho » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:49 pm

Hollins is depth, nothing more. Its not like we gave anything up for him.

He isn't known for his basketball IQ (he and Graham on the floor together.....yikes) and probably won't develop much of one here either. He can run and jump though so he'll have a role. He should adapt to the style fairly quickly after having played uptempo before and with Sessions last year.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#42 » by shrink » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:13 pm

I just thought I'd show you what a classy guy Sessions is. A reporter comes to his camp and is the first to inform him that the Wolves signed Ridnour! This means his life is completely changing, with a new job, a new city, he has to move his family .. everything. See how he handles it.

http://www.wmbfnews.com/global/category ... start=true
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#43 » by shazam » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:26 pm

Cavs are at about 49-50 million counting Danny Green. check it out http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm the cap is 58million so they are a good 8-9 million under the cap.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#44 » by shrink » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:27 pm

And BTW, I definitely think you guys did well in this trade.

Sessions struggled with an offense that is specifically geared against his talents, but that MIL PG is still in side there. RealGM had posters from many teams inquiring about him as a starter or rotation back-up PG, so even if you don't like him, he should be easy to move on an under-market contract. He is certainly worth the cap space that Delonte West provided, and you save $500,000 to boot.

For the rest of the trade, I think that's fine. Hollins is a legit 7-footer and can run the court like a deer. He's a great athlete, and MIN signed him hoping he'd turn that into a good NBA player. It didn't work out, but after seeing so many uninspiring back-up big men get paid $25 mil for 5 years .. and even more, $4.7 for two years of Hollins doesn't seem so bad.

Telfair is probably not worth his $2.7 mil contract, but I think Kahn got scared with the questions over Flynn's health.

And you nabbed a future second-rounder that should be pretty good? Nice way to stash a decent euro.

I think you guys won this deal. Sure, its not huge, but I have to say I was surprised that even a few of you had such a negative reaction to it. Congrats.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#45 » by shrink » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:32 pm

shazam wrote:Cavs are at about 49-50 million counting Danny Green. check it out http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm the cap is 58million so they are a good 8-9 million under the cap.


Please, please, please stop using hoopshype for salaries. Its often wrong and its use often spreads misinformation. Try this instead:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... 3SXc&gid=7

With Sessions already included, the Cavs are at $50,087,406. While there is no cap hold applied for only having 12 players under contract by the time the season starts, the team will have to add a thirteenth player before the season begins. The salary cap is $58,044,000, so the Cavs have roughly $8 mil in cap space after yesterday's trade.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#46 » by TheOUTLAW » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:36 pm

shazam wrote:Cavs are at about 49-50 million counting Danny Green. check it out http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm the cap is 58million so they are a good 8-9 million under the cap.
The Cavs are under the cap but do to the trade exemption (that is counted against the cap) makes the Cavs over the cap. That is why they still have a MLE to use. Or at least that's how I understand it
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#47 » by Smooth32 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:34 am

My take on all of this:

Analysis: Cavs, T’Wolves complete trade

So Chris Grant, how does it feel to make your first substantial move in the big chair? Granted (no pun intended) signing Samardo Samuels, signing Christian Eyenga and getting something back for LeCheat were all transactions under the Grant era, this will be the first transaction Grant has made that will be put under the microscope by Cavs fans and media over the next few years. So what’s the first big deal? According to various reports, the Cavs and Timberpuppies got a deal done that will send Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair for Ramon Sessions, Ryan Hollins and their own 2013 2nd round pick.

The Cavs and T’Wolves had been talking for a while previous to this deal getting done. Once the Cavs were re-buffed by the Houston Rockets in their attempts to extract Kyle Lowry from them, Sessions was the next name on the Cavs list. It ultimately worked out to be a deal that gave both teams what they wanted. The Cavs wanted to buy-low on a young, talented point guard while the T’Wolves wanted to simply dump a couple of contracts for pure cap space.

Sadly, the Delonte West era came to an end today. It was a short stint for Delonte filled with up’s-and-down’s but I’ll be the first to say Delonte was one of my favorite players on-and-off the court, when he had his head on straight. He will be looking for a job, as Marc Spears of Yahoo! Sports reports, now that the T’Wolves will waive Delonte, as they will clear cap space by doing so. I’d be surprised to see Delonte get a job quickly with his checkered past but if some team does claim him–it’ll likely be a contender–then I’ll be rooting for him.

For Telfair, it was a short stint as well and the times he’s been traded just keep on increasing. After being highly touted coming out of high school and being picked 13th overall in 2004, he’s never really been able to stay with one team or prove that he can have a role. He might get another chance with Minnesota as Jonny Flynn will be out 4-6 months with hip surgery, which will mean Telfair will get a chance to prove himself. Telfair had some good showings in his half-season here but he was nothing more than an expiring contract to the Cavs with the amount of point guards they have.

Now onto what the Cavs got.

Ramon (ra-MAHN) Sessions is an interesting player. The key for him will be to prove which season was the fluke season: last year with the T’Wolves or his ‘08-’09 season with the Milwaukee Bucks. The Ramon Sessions that played in Minnesota put up close to a 13 PER, had close to a 23% assist rate, put up a +0.4 WARP (Wins Above Replacement Player) and had a +0.9 Roland Rating. The Ramon Sessions that played in Milwaukee put up close to a 18 PER, had close to a 35% assist rate, put up a +7.1 WARP and had a +4.0 Roland Rating. Putting it into simpler terms: if Sessions was on the team last year and played like he did in Minnesota, he would have made no more of an impact than Jamario Moon did. If Sessions was on the team last year and played like he did in Milwaukee, he arguably would have been the best player on the team outside of LeCheat. So what’s the deal?

Milwaukee and Minnesota were at the opposite of end of the spectrum for Sessions, fit wise. In Milwaukee he saw a bigger role with Mo Williams gone, more minutes and the offense was a lot more in his hands. In Minnesota he saw a decreased role with the drafting of Jonny Flynn, less minutes and he was a poor fit in the triangle offense.

Straying away from the stats and breaking down his game, the best comparison that I could make would be to Andre Miller.

Offensively, Sessions is as much of a true point guard as the Cavs have had since Miller left. Sessions is a pass-first point guard who can score and create at a good rate (PTS/40 hover around mid-high teen’s; USG rate hovers around 20) but would much rather set up his teammates first. He’s more of a slasher who gets to the line a lot because he has to make up for his lack of a jump shot (10 3’s in his career and poor eFG%’s on jumpers). He’s not on the Eric Snow level but it is a major weakness in his game.

Defensively, Sessions was billed as a good defender coming out of Nevada a few years back but it’s been a mixed bag ever since. Last year in Minnesota his defensive +/- and OPP PER were much better than in Milwaukee but his defensive rating and defensive win shares were better in Milwaukee than they were in Minnesota. Considering the mixed bag and my limited knowledge of his defensive abilities, I’ll refer to the always reliable John Hollinger: “Defensively, Sessions experienced some trouble fighting through screens but otherwise excelled. He applies good ball pressure and has excellent size, plus he helps out on the glass.”

The Cavs are hoping Session can play like he did in Milwaukee.

Sessions should benefit playing under Coach Scott, where I feel he will be more free than he was in Minnesota and more like he was in Milwaukee. Coach Scott has mentioned a lot this summer of using a 2-guard backcourt, which he did a lot of in New Orleans with Jannero Pargo and Chris Paul. It should be interesting to see how that works with with Mo Williams, who Sessions is very close to.

The other player the Cavs received in the deal is Ryan Hollins. Unlike Sessions, Hollins wasn’t a key component to this deal and was more of a throw-in. He is someone the Cavs were interested in because of their lack of size upfront. By just looking at Hollins, he definitely passes the eye test. He’s tall, he’s long, he’s super-athletic, he runs the floor like a deer and he has good hops (remember him posterizing Anderson Varejao in a late blow-out win with the Mavs a couple years ago?). The problem is Hollins hasn’t shown anything more than that to this point in the NBA. He got more minutes and a bigger role last year in Minnesota but he showed why he never got those minutes or that role elsewhere.

Offensively, he’s not going to contribute much. Most, if not all, of his points will either come off lobs, put-backs, running the floor or offensive rebounds. He’s not someone who can spot-up, he’s not someone who you run plays for and he’s not someone who can create his own shot. With all that said, the advantage he does have is he is a good pick-and-roll partner considering his athleticism and hops. In P&R situations last year, he scored 1.16 PPP (points per possession) which ranked as 28th best in the NBA among big men. His athleticism also helped in transition as his 1.33 PPP was good for 45th best in the NBA. So bottom line: don’t expect much from Hollins on offense, unless it relies on him using his athletic ability.

Defensively, Hollins may look like he has the frame, hops and ability to be a good defender but he never really has developed into one. Just like his offensive game, his defensive game relies on athletic ability. Anything in regards to his athletic ability he can do well defensively: he’s good on P&R rolls, he can block shots, he’s good in transition and good in isolation situations. Unfortunately he doesn’t rebound well, struggles in post-up situations and isn’t a good team defender. His advanced defensive stats have never been good so don’t look for much out of him defensively.

The good news for Hollins will be Coach Scott’s up-tempo offense should help him take advantage of his athletic ability, which so much of his game relies on. Hollins will likely be the back-up 5 to Varejao and eat up some minutes against centers.

In addition to both Sessions and Hollins, the Cavs also received Minnesota’s 2013 2nd round pick. While it may not seem like much right now, their 2nd round pick this year was 35th overall (for reference, DeJuan Blair went 37th overall two years ago). Unless the T’Wolves magically get better over the next couple of years, the 2nd round pick will likely be high and will be a nice asset for the Cavs. Whether it nets the Cavs a player who may have fallen out of the 1st round or helps them get back into the 1st, it’s always nice to have high 2nd round picks. This pick also gives the Cavs 6 2nd round picks in the next 3 drafts and what could be 10 picks total within the next 3 drafts.

Enough yapping, I’ll try to finish this up short and sweet. The bottom line to this deal is the Cavs don’t risk much talent wise in this deal as they gave up two players who wouldn’t have worn a Cavs uniform much longer. The Cavs do add on salary over the next couple of years but cap room shouldn’t be a priority with no free agents wanting to play in Cleveland. Cap flexibility is another thing and this deal shouldn’t compromise that. The key to to this deal will be which Ramon Sessions decides to show up. If it’s the one form Minnesota then the Cavs will have your average back-up point guard. I’m hoping that, and I’m sure the Cavs are hoping too, it’s the one from Milwaukee. If it is then Cavs fans will have a lot more faith in Grant than they do right now.

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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#48 » by BucksRUS » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:00 pm

I think Ramon will help the Cavs win more games than if Mo and Telfair were your main point options. He gives the Cavs a PG that can attack the defense. Wouldn't be surprised if he is the starting PG over Mo this year. He fits Scott's offense better.
Trade S. Jackson soon. NJ seems like a nice place for him.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#49 » by AussieBuck » Sun Aug 1, 2010 7:20 am

You'll love Sessions. He's very good running the pick and roll/pop and can get past anyone off the dribble. It's true that he can't shoot the jumper at all but he at least knows that and doesn't put up dumb shots. He's also a decent man defender but is less impressive on help D. Pretty much everyone on the Bucks 08/09 team raved about his passing, he's the reason why CV got paid by Detroit and made Jefferson tradable for us. Hollins on the other hand is possibly the worst player in the league.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#50 » by skones » Mon Aug 2, 2010 1:37 am

B Mac wrote:

Respectfully...

We had Bucks fans telling us after we got Mo Williams how terrible he was and how he would be a bad fit next to LeBron, and was addition by subtraction for the Bucks because now Sessions could take over (ironic), etc... As soon as we got him we had the best record in the league two years in a row and a large part of that was due to Mo. I have been very happy with the way he has played over the last 2 seasons and still think we completely stole him from you guys.

Likewise I remember pretty much the entire Bucks board was livid when Hammond let Sessions walk to the TWolves.


It's one thing to have Mo Williams playing next to Lebron. It's another when he's the guy who's completely running the show for your team as will be the case this season. At the time, with what Mo was being paid, we needed to get rid of him in any way possible. Ridnour worked out for Milwaukee, Mo has worked out for you. This season, however, I think Mo gets exposed more than he has in the past, and you'll be frustrated just as we were.

With that being said, most of the Bucks board was livid, but I was one of the few who had very very little interest in bringing back Sessions. If you don't believe me, I invite you to dig up threads from last summer and see for yourself.

I simply don't think Sessions plays a brand of basketball that will lead to wins.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#51 » by paul » Wed Aug 4, 2010 5:22 am

B Mac wrote:
skones wrote:For those touting Sessions as a pass first point guard, I respectfully disagree. While he was here, he was a very ball dominant point guard, often pounding the ball into the floor for long periods of time making a lot of bail out passes that eventually turned into assists. With that being said, he wasn't running an actual offense and that's one of the reasons I don't think he's a starting caliber point guard on a playoff team. He'll put up good numbers with opportunity though.



Respectfully...

We had Bucks fans telling us after we got Mo Williams how terrible he was and how he would be a bad fit next to LeBron, and was addition by subtraction for the Bucks because now Sessions could take over (ironic), etc... As soon as we got him we had the best record in the league two years in a row and a large part of that was due to Mo. I have been very happy with the way he has played over the last 2 seasons and still think we completely stole him from you guys.

Likewise I remember pretty much the entire Bucks board was livid when Hammond let Sessions walk to the TWolves.


Respectfully back - I think your memory on the Mo situation is blurry. Everyone with half a clue knew he'd be a perfect fit beside Lebron playing in an off-the-ball jumpshooting manner and I remember the majority of the Bucks board agreeing on that point, just as everyone now realizes he'll be more or less below average without him or another ball dominant star (hence this trade).

As for Sessions, I for one wanted Ramon to be kept by the Bucks, but describing it as 'pretty much the entire Bucks board was livid' is just rubbish. Sessions is a player who divided Bucks fans from day one. I'm a huge fan (though it has to be said I soured on him a little last season and not just because of the triangle) but he has some huge and painfully obvious flaws in his game, that go along with a great deal of talent and some real positives. There's pretty much no one who he can't penetrate by and his passing in transition can be a feature but at the same time he's awful defensively, can't soot from 3 to save his life and can get stuck pounding the air out of the ball a little. Still you guys will have a lot of fun watching him and it will be nice for me to actually want one of your players to do well :wink:

As to an earlier post in this thread, if Mo and Ramon start together you will have the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA by a very, very long way. I'm guessing this trade signals the beginning of the end of Mo's time as a Cav, the same way Ramon's emergence did for him as a Buck.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#52 » by heathmalc » Wed Aug 4, 2010 7:21 am

Wow.

A lot of different opinions on this trade. And, since I haven't posted in about a week or so, I thought I'd add my two cents. :P

Hollins: Hollins is one of those extremely frustrating players, that after watching him play, you sometimes feel like beating him to a bloody pulp. He has the frame and athletic ability to be an all-NBA defender. However, he has one little hitch - He is dumber than a box of rocks! The one silver lining in this, is that Byron's offense will take advantage of Hollins' strengths...much like his (Byron's) offense took advantage of Chandler's strengths in New Orleans. If Hollins listens to what Byron wants done, and does a passable job, there is a decent chance that Ryan could see some starter minutes - maybe even sooner than later, as Byron loves the versatility of Varejao off the bench (who doesn't?), and would prefer to use him in that capacity. At any rate, the Cavs needed another big body in the front court, and Hollins is a legit 7-footer, who only makes about 2.3 million and will be an expiring next year. So Hollins was a nice pick-up when you figure that the Cavs didn't need to use any of the MLE to sign a big man, and that there is a chance the guy may actually excel in Byron's offense.

Sessions: Sessions is a bit of an enigma for me. One day he looks like a guy who could be an all-star starter, and the next day I'm wondering if he'd start on a team of YMCAers. That being said, he does have some talent, and he is young. Byron will likely use him frequently with Mo Williams, who is one of his best friends; and the two will have excellent chemistry. In Scotts' offense, they should do very well, and depending on who's on the floor with them, they may even look great...on offense. Defensively, Sessions is an above average player, who can put a lot of pressure on the guy he's defending. However, he frequently takes chances, and has problems with screens. If he's on the floor with Mo...that could mean a lot of problems. If he's paired with Gibson, then they'll likely play better on both ends.

The 2nd round pick: Some of you are complaining about the pick being in 2013. Why???? Do you not pay ANY attention to the NBA? There is likely going to be a lockout next summer. That means that players in college who would normally come out, wont. They'll stay in college an extra year, which will make the 2012 class a lot stronger than it'd be if no lockout took place. Because of the players that stay the extra year in 2011; there will be players that stay an extra season in 2012, and declare in 2013 because there will be a better chance of them getting picked higher than if they come out in 2012 when essentially the best players from 2011 & 2012 will be declaring. 2011 will be one of those extremely weak classes that have maybe 3-4 real good keepers.

Delonte West: I really hate to see Delonte leave. He was a heck of a locker-room guy, and is an extremely talented player. I really wish the guy well, and hope that he gets his life in order & his medical problems under control. He'll be missed, but it was something that was inevitable.

Telfair Sebastian actually played decent in the few minutes he saw on the court in a Cavaliers' uniform. However, despite that, his past has scarred his career, and it is very unlikely that he ever recovers from it. He never had a chance in Cleveland, and really doesn't have one in Minnesota - even with Flynn injured.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#53 » by AussieBuck » Wed Aug 4, 2010 8:00 am

paul wrote: but at the same time he's awful defensively,

Since when? He was a solid defender after his rookie season. Certainly better than Ridnour who I don't recall you ever calling awful.
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Re: Official: Cavs trade for Session/Hollins/2nd Round Pick 

Post#54 » by paul » Thu Aug 5, 2010 5:28 am

AussieBuck wrote:
paul wrote: but at the same time he's awful defensively,

Since when? He was a solid defender after his rookie season. Certainly better than Ridnour who I don't recall you ever calling awful.


I thought he improved a bit defensively his second season when playing under Skiles but then regressed badly on that end last season - certainly in the games I saw, and I'd say Ridour was very easily better defensively than Ramon last seaon. It was one of my biggest disappointments with Sessions last season.

Ramon's got all the physical tools to be good defensively, he just doesn't seem all that interested in it. Maybe Scott can turn him around defensively.

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