Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good.

jinxed · Post #1 » by **jinxed** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:57 am

-5.8 adjusted plus / minus according to basketball value.

-38 raw plus/minus on the year, despite playing for playoff team.

Not the end all be all of discussion those stats, however, I have my doubts he knows how to run a team. Fast and explosive yes...a smart floor general..? A good shooter? a good defender?

What's more important in a point guard?

britblazerdude · Post #2 » by **britblazerdude** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:58 am

stat mongerer!

joeyAdaMan · Post #3 » by **joeyAdaMan** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:58 am

explain that stat

jinxed · Post #4 » by **jinxed** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:11 am

joeyAdaMan wrote:explain that stat

ADJ plus minus is a stat that says The Chicago Bulls play 6 points worse with Derrick Rose on the floor per 100 posessions than they would if they had an average PG playing in his place.

Kabookalu · Post #5 » by **Kabookalu** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:13 am

Not sure if it's the same stat but wasn't there also a +/- stat that showed Kevin Durant had an impact no better than a role player last year? Look at him now.

Clangus · Post #6 » by **Clangus** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:14 am

Kevin Durant had a bad +/- the season before last, everyone who actually watched those games knew it wasn't because he was a bad player. He just had no backup.

This is exactly the same.

Oh and can you fuggers learn to use the Player Comparison borad PUHLEASE!

Fred Williamson · Post #7 » by **Fred Williamson** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:14 am

Watch a game.

retrospect24 · Post #8 » by **retrospect24** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:15 am

Choker wrote:Not sure if it's the same stat but wasn't there also a +/- stat that showed Kevin Durant had an impact no better than a role player last year? Look at him now.

Exactly. Stats don't tell the whole story.

Clangus · Post #9 » by **Clangus** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:22 am

for future reference

viewforum.php?f=64

Devilzsidewalk · Post #10 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:29 am

Clangus wrote:for future reference

viewforum.php?f=64

not really a player comparison, but I'm super pissed too!!!

mysticbb · Post #11 » by **mysticbb** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:31 am

jinxed wrote:-5.8 adjusted plus / minus according to basketball value.

-38 raw plus/minus on the year, despite playing for playoff team.

Not the end all be all of discussion those stats, however, I have my doubts he knows how to run a team. Fast and explosive yes...a smart floor general..? A good shooter? a good defender?

What's more important in a point guard?

You probably want to use the numbers for the regular season and not for the playoffs. His Net+/- last season was +4, and his APM was -2.1 (+/- 5). Well, seeing the error for APM and the Net+/- numbers, we can easily assume that his APM is just on the lower end of the intervall. 82games.com has Rose with 5.2 Net+/-. I guess that is good enough for a 2nd year point guard.

Clangus · Post #12 » by **Clangus** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:32 am

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
Clangus wrote:for future reference

viewforum.php?f=64

not really a player comparison, but I'm super pissed too!!!

not yet its not

IB4 Westbrook/Reke/Curry Vs Rose comparisons.

Rose is a very good player and I trade Westbrook if we could get Rose

mysticbb · Post #13 » by **mysticbb** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:40 am

Clangus wrote:Kevin Durant had a bad +/- the season before last, everyone who actually watched those games knew it wasn't because he was a bad player. He just had no backup.

That doesn't make much sense, because "having no backup" should have given him better +/- numbers. With a better backup the team can keep the level of play, with a worse backup the performance level of the team is decreasing. That also depends on how well a player fits into the system. Sometimes a good player has just not the skillset to complement the rest of the players. Thus his +/- values will be rather bad. The opposite is seen for average or worse than average players who just have the right skillset. A prime example was always Jason Collins on the Nets, who had several years with really, really good +/- numbers, just because he was the perfect fit next to the other 4 players.

Durant's abilities just didn't fit the system of the Thunder before. He also made a couple of rookie/sophomore mistakes and was used as a SG, which is a bad idea in terms of defense. That explains his really bad +/- numbers.

But those examples show that relying exclusive on one particular stats set can easily be misleading. If you want to judge a player by stats, use the whole available data and try to get a coherent conclusion.

J~Rush · Post #14 » by **J~Rush** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:41 am

I'd rather not.

jax98 · Post #15 » by **jax98** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:57 am

When your best offensive option aside from Derrick Rose is Luol Deng (fine player, but can't create for himself), you're going to have minus stats more often than not. Given that Rose also played games without Noah, Deng and Hinrich, it's easy to see why those numbers came up. His supporting cast SUCKED last year.

With Boozer, Korver, Brewer, Watson and Luol back in a third option role, we should see the +/- numbers improve quite a bit. The scoring droughts will definitely go down.

High0ctane21 · Post #16 » by **High0ctane21** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:00 am

21/4/6 on 49% shooting on a playoff team. Made the allstar team and it was only his second season in the league. If that doesn't show he's good, than there must be only 10 good players in the NBA.

mysticbb · Post #17 » by **mysticbb** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:04 am

Removed

SimonFish · Post #18 » by **SimonFish** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:04 am

Sophomore? LOL

Boognish · Post #19 » by **Boognish** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:23 am

He's a unicorn. :dontknow:

Alex_De_Large · Post #20 » by **Alex_De_Large** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:25 am

who cares about stats? in his second year in da league he was very good in the playoffs and had impact on the game.