No Love For Suns

[grumpysaddle]

Since when has Paul Coro been part of the F.O.? His word's never been the be-all-end-all of what ends up happening. Take your doom and gloom on vacation until at least November, please.

[Miklo]

While no news source should be seen as anywhere near fully informed, Coro is definitely one of the better ones out there. Unlike most "twitterers/tweeters/whatever" he doesn't just spew out the first rumor he hears. He's probably the only guy I really listen to. But yeah obviously if he counts something out we can't count it out yet.

[grumpysaddle]

I know he's more credible than most sources, but still... considering how tight-lipped the F.O. has been, it's hard to say what exactly is going on. I'm just getting ultra-tired of Wormwood's posts essentially reiterating the same doom and gloom relentlessly. It's not offering anything new to conversations. Its starting to remind me of why I put hunter on my block list for the same thing over and over and over about Earl Clark.

[WTFsunsFTW]

Ladies, Coro has been on vacation. He isn't hot on the trail of anything. The FO has been in hiding. Coro talked to Blount's agent to confirm the Suns were interested in him, not the FO, which Im sure he only found out because he was talking shop about Amundson with him.

There has been zero indication that the Suns are done this summer. It might be one minimum FA, it might be a JRich trade, but obviously the new theme is no one talks to anyone outside the franchise walls.

We still haven't signed a GM and you guys think this is the roster we are "going to war with"??? Seriously?

All indications? Like an incomplete roster and an empty chair in the front office?

Really?

[Wormwood74]

Coro wasn't on vacation when he wrote that the Suns plan on using Hedo at the 4.

Incomplete roster? We have 11 players under contract, 12 if you count Lawal. Of those 11, 10 are guys who EXPECT rotation minutes. If any one of them gets benched because we pick up another PF who bumps them out, there's going to be some POd people on the bench. Who are we going to add via free agency? If we add via free agency, they're unlikely to supplant any of our current rotation guys. Which means we're going to play with what we've got.

Our payroll is at 65 million, which is the maximum Sarver indicated he wanted to pay. So, using the TPE is just about out.

Which leaves trading JRich, or perhaps Dudley. However, the market has been quiet long enough with FA season being essentially over, that if something was going to happen, it likely would have by now.

[Frank Lee]

.......Of those 11, 10 are guys who EXPECT rotation minutes. If any one of them gets benched because we pick up another PF who bumps them out, there's going to be some POd people on the bench......

Oh no you dont Wormo.... cant circle your wagons with that 'expected minutes po'd bench' routine... Until it happens its just swami smoke. I have faith in our Genie Gentry to manage all the egos.... this is a pretty selfless team.

Your comment raises an interesting point though, when it comes to FA's. Perhaps the delay in inking someone of quality is the fact playing time may be difficult to obtain. If a vet say like Joe Smith wanted to ride the pine, he could sign with Miami.

Which leaves trading JRich, or perhaps Dudley. However, the market has been quiet long enough with FA season being essentially over, that if something was going to happen, it likely would have by now.

May be , may be not... may be loosen up your turbin some

Our payroll is at 65 million, which is the maximum Sarver indicated he wanted to pay. So, using the TPE is just about out.

ugh... the dreaded 'bottom line' reference... thats a backdoor move worm... at least its good for a year. If anything, it should indicate a FA is more likely at this point.

[Village Idiot]

The Suns never get any love. Yeah we lost Amar'e but let's take a look at our team against a team like the Blazers...

Nash/Miller
J-rich/Roy
Hill/Batum
Turk/ Aldridge
Lopez/Oden

Dragic/Bayless
Childress/Fernandez
Dudley/Babbitt
Warrick/Camby
Frye/Pryzbilla

Now, I'm not saying that our team is necessarily better, but how would the Blazers be a clear favorite in this match up? Nash>Miller, Roy>J-Rich, Hill>Batum, and RoLo at this point is better then Oden. The matchup between Turk and Aldridge would be a strange one and our Bench is clearly, clearly superior. How do you count a team like the Blazers in so easily and say the suns should be out?

If it's any consolation the blogger at NBA.com didn't have the Blazers making the playoffs either.

FYI Wesley Matthews will be backing up SG/SF from Portland and Rudy will be traded.

I don't get your contention that the Suns bench vastly superior to Portland's. Marcus Camby is better than either the Suns starting PF or C. Przybilla is a heck of a lot better than Frye too, otherwise Frye would still be a Blazer.

I don't see Hill being any better than Batum either. He's an outstanding defender and an extremely efficient scorer.

Oden was leading the league it FG%, TS%, Reb% and blk% when he got injured. Before he went down Portland was the #2 defensive team in the league and fell down to #11 by the end of the season.

[Frank Lee]

You get Pryz and Oden back 100%... and you have a point. Keep Oden and the rest healthy, and you have a scary team, with no apparent weaknesses (as long as you are content with Miller)

Why dont you even it out some and trade us VanillaG ?

[Village Idiot]

You get Pryz and Oden back 100%... and you have a point. Keep Oden and the rest healthy, and you have a scary team, with no apparent weaknesses (as long as you are content with Miller)

Why dont you even it out some and trade us VanillaG ?

Health is the one thing all Blazers fans are hoping for. Did you know that our projected starting line-up of Miller, Roy, Batum, Aldridge and Oden have never played a second together and yet dorks like Sekou Smith completely write us off. Same thing with you guys. Any team with Nash is a competitor to make the playoffs.

Good luck to you guys next season.

[The CrucifiXioN]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but if the last three years have proven anything, it's that you almost HAVE to win 50 games in the West to even sniff the playoffs. Without Amar'e, I just can't see us winning nearly as many games as we did last year, so we might not make the playoffs now. They could certainly surprise some people (including myself) much like they did last year, though. We'll see.

[Wormwood74]

Oh no you dont Wormo.... cant circle your wagons with that 'expected minutes po'd bench' routine... Until it happens its just swami smoke. I have faith in our Genie Gentry to manage all the egos.... this is a pretty selfless team.

Sorry, Frank. But right now we have 10 guys who expect to play. Plus one other who might deserve to play more than the guy in front of him. For the sake of argument, let's stick with 10.

A typical NBA rotation is 8-9 players. We were about the only team that ran a 10 deep rotation when healthy. Trying to stretch it to 11 is going to make it tough, particularly if we sign a starting quality PF and have to divide the minutes at SF between Hedo, Dudley, and Hill at SF. 48 minutes divided 3 ways is 16 minutes apiece. Without a doubt, if we land another PF that we intend to play, one of our SFs is going to get hosed on minutes.

Simple math here, not speculation. I can't imagine Hill or Hedo being OK up with riding the pine, and Dudley has earned his minutes, particularly with his performance in the playoffs against Kobe.

The only part of your analysis I agree with is that potentially Hill or Dudley would be professional enough to keep his dissatisfaction from infecting the rest of the lockerroom, but ask yourself: what NBA player is going to be happy not playing when they by all rights be getting some? Answer: not freaking many.

The way I'd expect Hill or Dudley to deal with it is in a closed door meeting with the coach and ask for a trade.

On top of all this: how much of a waste of talent would it be for one of those three not to be seeing regular minutes?

We have too many SFs, and no legit PF's on the team other than Frye and the untested Lawal. Fixing one problem requires fixing the other in kind.

[Frank Lee]

Come on Worm... If we sign a quality pf, they will come here knowing their role is going to be 15 - 18 mins per night. And get away from your typical NBA thinking..... Call JRich a forward and we have ZERO SGs, and will run with a PG/3F/C or PG/4F line up.

Clark wont play but in spot blow outs...
Lawal will play as much in the D-League as for us (may be with reynolds?) ...
Hill will be happy to take back to backs off... and content to start and run 20
Frye and Lopez will split post minutes...

Some nights, the bench may get more mins than the starters.

Gentry will manage these guys. If you dont buy in, you wont be here. Last I checked, our new additions were all very excited to join up. They know the deal. They will play every night. That is much different than being nailed to the pine and uncertain of your minutes and place.

I see the minutes something like this.... of course with fluctuations due to specific match ups.

Nash + Dragic = 48 mins
JRich = 24
JChill = 20
Dudley = 20
Hill = 20
TGlu = 24
Warrick = 18
FA? = 18
Lopez + Frye = 48

Clark sits until he earns court time
Lawal + Reynolds = in a suit

Who is going to b!tc# ? These guys will take Nash, Hill, and JRich's lead on this, and be fresh for the whole F-n yr. I dont think we'll have any issues with Hedu, Hakim, and Chill..... they are all inked long term so there is no pressure to perform for a new deal.



Your concerns are much more assumptive than need be.
Stick to your hard data, let me be the swami.

[lilfishi22]

Oh no you dont Wormo.... cant circle your wagons with that 'expected minutes po'd bench' routine... Until it happens its just swami smoke. I have faith in our Genie Gentry to manage all the egos.... this is a pretty selfless team.

Sorry, Frank. But right now we have 10 guys who expect to play. Plus one other who might deserve to play more than the guy in front of him. For the sake of argument, let's stick with 10.

A typical NBA rotation is 8-9 players. We were about the only team that ran a 10 deep rotation when healthy. Trying to stretch it to 11 is going to make it tough, particularly if we sign a starting quality PF and have to divide the minutes at SF between Hedo, Dudley, and Hill at SF. 48 minutes divided 3 ways is 16 minutes apiece. Without a doubt, if we land another PF that we intend to play, one of our SFs is going to get hosed on minutes.

Simple math here, not speculation. I can't imagine Hill or Hedo being OK up with riding the pine, and Dudley has earned his minutes, particularly with his performance in the playoffs against Kobe.

The only part of your analysis I agree with is that potentially Hill or Dudley would be professional enough to keep his dissatisfaction from infecting the rest of the lockerroom, but ask yourself: what NBA player is going to be happy not playing when they by all rights be getting some? Answer: not freaking many.

The way I'd expect Hill or Dudley to deal with it is in a closed door meeting with the coach and ask for a trade.

On top of all this: how much of a waste of talent would it be for one of those three not to be seeing regular minutes?

We have too many SFs, and no legit PF's on the team other than Frye and the untested Lawal. Fixing one problem requires fixing the other in kind.

Solid post WW74.

I see the same problem you do. We have too many guys who play better when they play out of their position and not enough guys who play their position particularly well. Turkeyglue is a good player and is listed as a PF but he's really a 6-10 SF. Frye is likely to come off the bench for Lopez (a true C) but his game makes him more of a PF (even a SF) rather than a C.

On the other hand, now that we have Turkeyglue possibly playing minutes at the 3, the SF position is going to be even more stacked with Hill, Dudley, JChill and EC all trying to get minutes. This means we'll likely see guys like Dudley, JChill and Dudley playing out of position at the 2, maybe even some 1, just to get minutes. They can play those positions but it's not their natural positions.

What we needed was a legit PF, not half-arsed PF "options" like Turkeyglue and Warrick. Gentry is going to have a lot on his hands, trying to give minutes to the "big time FA's" we signed.

[Wormwood74]

Frank,

You're assuming giving significant burn to Hedo at the 4 is a good idea that doesn't get us killed with your minutes calculation.

Also assuming JRich will be cool with 24 minutes a night...in a contract year. This I really don't see happening.

Hedo only playing 24 mpg? He hasn't played less than 30 mpg since 2004-2005, and hasn't played 24 or less since 2002-2003. You're thinking we can give our 2nd and 3rd highest played players on the team 24 mpg each, and they'll be cool with it?

You're also assuming Frye doesn't turn out to be our best option at PF, which probably is true ATM (Hedo, Warrick, or Frye at the 4? Only Frye has the size, defense, and track record to suggest he's a good choice at the position.) If he is our best option, especially down the stretch, his minutes at the position have to be bumped up (assuming winning is a high priority). Again, this cuts into Warrick and/or Hedo's minutes.

In order to make a substitution pattern happen with the minutes you describe, Gentry will have to make substitutions very frequently. This makes it hard to build a rythm with a particular unit on the floor, or what do you do when a group on the floor is really clicking? Someone gets hosed for that game.

Building a viable rotation with 11 players is extremely difficult, because there's always going to be one position where you go 3 deep.

So, back to the original point: I think we're done with changing the roster until either we're getting killed all through November with Warrick and Hedo at the 4, or we're floundering and looking for someone at the trade deadline in February.

Or, it just might work with our current 10. I still don't see us getting out of the first round under mst circumstances, though. Not enough D or defensive rebounding.

[Frank Lee]

Put your crystal ball down wormo... What I said will happen is what Gentry has said he'll do. I am not predicting it, nor judging it. Yet, you've been blowing that same old horn for the past 2 - 3 weeks.... a Wormuzela droning out an anti 'Hedu/Warrick at PF' tune with a doomsday melody.

And why would JRich complain ? Because YOU think he will ? He was ballin hard last yr, and I would imagine will continue. If he's hot, he'll play more... oh, but then you think someone else will complain.... like we have a bi+ch domino effect ? JRich sat and watched the second unit right along side Nash and Hill last yr. May be these guys are not as petty as what you think.

Yes, Hedu will play 24 minutes, minimum. I don't give a rats rearend what he did in the past. He's here now. This is how we do it, and 24 here is far better than 30 in Tor. Dont you think he'd agree ?

We are running basically 2 teams worm, just like last yr. Why cant you get that through your segmented head ? Everybody is playing. If we add a PF/C, he'll get 15 mins too. Hedu will play a whoppin 12 minutes at PF...leaving 18 for Warrick and 18 for a FA...

Thats if you continue to think in terms you are familiar with. We are Zoning it 50% of the time ... wouldn't you agree ? ... it makes even more sense now. Step out of the box statman.

You have to discard the labels SG, SF, and PF.... they no longer exist, so there really isn't any point to your viscous assumptions concerning too many SFs.

Gentry has his plan, and you think it will fail because of infighting over minutes (really?) and no true PF....

What were your thoughts when we had a PF playing C, a SF playing PF, 2 SGs and a PG ... ? Sure, its not the same, but just because you can't quantify it with numbers doesn't mean it is as doomed as you say.

As far as the infighting goes, where is your faith in Nash ? This whole 'chemistry' lesson is his creation, with his lab assistant GHill. They and Gentry are not about to let it fizzle out over a few minutes here or there. These guys know they are going to play every night... and the better they play, the more burn they'll get, even at the expense of the starters.

I am sure Alvin did his due diligence in selecting Hedu, Hakim, and JChill... and made it clear how HE was going to do things. BTW, you did see where he and his staff requested them right ? and how Sarver obliged?

The key of course is winning.... that is the penicillin to all what you say. After the last couple of years, I am not doubting this team. I've doomed them and gloomed them out of the gate, based on what they 'lacked'... and more times than not, Nash houdini-ed out a successful season, putting us in position to keep playing.

Perhaps that is our main difference. I look forward to this experiment.... and you look away.