Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success?

[novi13]

I think we have witnessed a shift in the NBA over the years. Examples of stat-padding, last second attempts at tripple doubles, 19-rebound games to close out the season by players to even out their "20-10" requirements, All-Star votes, MVP votes. This is what today's superstar seems to be obsessed with. Obviously true stars like Durant, Duncan, Kobe don't spend much time talking about these things, but others like Bosh have come out and admitted these things matter.. to the point where they're actually goals.

I once hated this mentality, but now I'm wondering if this mentality is what Andrea is missing. I'm wondering if this is the reason for hate, bashing, the "he's a bust" talk. Andrea's definition of success is like that of a true role-player..."I don't care if I score 6 points if we win". Bosh obviously would never say something like this because his nose would start to grow on camera!

I've seen Andrea simply let his team mates grab rebounds which were closer to him, I've seen him make passes to Bosh when he had a wide open shot. He's always been the one to pass up the basic shot for the spectacular pass. Is Andrea Bargnani unselfish to a fault? He admitted to being lazy this past season. I would say this is a fair assessment. Perhaps disinterested would be a better word. His thought process is probably "Well, if someone else is jumping for it and they're on my team, why should I waste my energy?". It's a very strange way of thinking but I wonder if this season will be a complete surprise for Raptor fans.

Caliper test results are quite indicative of how individuals operate in terms of emotional reactivity and it gives a good idea of the mental make-up someone has. I think Andrea has shown (after being put into the starting line-up in the middle of his third season) that he has the ability to rise to the standards other set. I think what pisses people off is that he doesn't want that spotlight, doesn't seem to crave the attention like Bosh did.. but I think if he's given the spotlight, he's the type of player (and person) who will probably work harder. It seems he has been a little hesitant at times to talk about life post-Bosh.. is this because unlike Bosh he actually understands that once put in that situation, he'll actually have to be a player who proves he's worth it?

I can't say for sure, much like anyone else, but I see Bosh leaving as the ultimate challenge to Andrea. He no longer gets to hide behind Bosh, no longer gets to make that excuse. He's expected to be the top scorer, the top rebounder, the only guy who has a chance at an All-Star selection, and he's expected to be consistent. A leader. I think he'll actually shock us all. He just seems to rise to the expectations others have.

[Ripp]

I don't understand this. Not grabbing defensive rebounds when there are plenty to be had and your team BADLY needs to control the glass sounds extremely selfish to me, rather than unselfish. Not playing help defense also sounds extremely selfish. Or am I missing something critical, here?

[vini_vidi_vici]

I read all of that, and cant believe I did. When will people start using this forum as a place to talk Raptors stuff not opinions? Get a blog, and post it in the blog thread.

This place is UNBEARABLE in the offseason, save for most Rhett/Sub posts. If im excluding anyone else who actually posts information my apologies.

[raptorsam]

It will be nice to have our scoring bigman just play within the offence and take what the D gives him and not just shoot and let everyone watch like bosh did the last couple years

[Schad]

Bahahaha...yes, Bargnani's problem is that he's too much of a "do the little things" team player. That's definitely the problem.

[Geddy]

does someone still have that list of Bargnani excuses?

Well you can add another one now - he doesn't have good numbers because he's too unselfish.

I guess he will let smaller players on opposing teams rebound over him because he thinks they deserve some stats too.

[LittleOzzy]

https://www.blogger.com/start

[CreaM]

Give it up man...

[Ripp]

In my admittedly limited experience playing basketball, I've found that the two most damaging things for a team are not controlling the defensive glass and not helping each other defensively. These two things make you lose faith in your teammates, and cause discord. It is mindboggling to me that Novi is trying to spin these two weaknesses of Bargnani as...virtues.

[novi13]

It's not selfish. He just doesn't seem to care about numbers at all.

He could be at 8 rebounds and he won't start chasing rebounds to get his double double. He could be at 8 points, he won't shoot bad shots to get 10. He doesn't seem to demand the ball. Even when Bosh was out, it's like if you didn't pass to him, he didn't really care. It's almost as if he's running from the fact that he's the best player on his team (when Bosh was out). I'm not a Bargnani apologist. I just don't think people understand European basketball and why Andrea could care less about getting double doubles. Yes, he will battle other teams for rebounds.. but he'll never try and outjump Bosh for a rebound. If Bosh and he are there, 90% of the time, it was like out of "respect" for Bosh he just moved aside and let him take it. It's silly how easily he could shut people up by just averaging 8 rebounds per game.

[Gold Chain]

He's going to get his first crack 1a or 1b on an NBA team and will be a focus for other team's defensive schemes, attention and double teams.

I like him, but he has a lot to show me next year.

Only time will tell.

[northernlight]

Sounds like psychobabble overanalysis to me. He's about one three pointer (or put back with the foul--HA!) per game and a little over one rebound per half from putting all this to rest.

[Schad]

If Bosh and he are there, 90% of the time, it was like out of "respect" for Bosh he just moved aside and let him take it.

Or move aside and let the opposing power forward have it. Or unselfishly allow someone else to provide the help defense.

Sounds like psychobabble overanalysis to me. He's about one three pointer (or put back with the foul--HA!) per game and a little over one rebound per half from putting all this to rest.

I'd say that he's 9.10 points/100 on the defensive end away from putting it to rest, personally.

[Ripp]

It's not selfish. He just doesn't seem to care about numbers at all.

He could be at 8 rebounds and he won't start chasing rebounds to get his double double. He could be at 8 points, he won't shoot bad shots to get 10. He doesn't seem to demand the ball. Even when Bosh was out, it's like if you didn't pass to him, he didn't really care. It's almost as if he's running from the fact that he's the best player on his team (when Bosh was out). I'm not a Bargnani apologist. I just don't think people understand European basketball and why Andrea could care less about getting double doubles. Yes, he will battle other teams for rebounds.. but he'll never try and outjump Bosh for a rebound. If Bosh and he are there, 90% of the time, it was like out of "respect" for Bosh he just moved aside and let him take it. It's silly how easily he could shut people up by just averaging 8 rebounds per game.

But this is an extremely moronic viewpoint, if this is what he believes. The defensive possession does not end until the rebound is secured. By not fighting for a rebound, he substantially reduces the probability that his own team will grab it. That is just dumb or lazy.

[Boogie!]

i agree with some of your ideas. you're right, he doesn't care about stats and is too team oriented instead of trying to take over games by himself. at the same time, rebounding is just something he sucks at. no hops, not enough effort to get position. but like you, i do believe that if the organization pretty much says to him, "listen you have to be 'the man' on this team now," he will rise to the challenge.

[novi13]

It's not selfish. He just doesn't seem to care about numbers at all.

He could be at 8 rebounds and he won't start chasing rebounds to get his double double. He could be at 8 points, he won't shoot bad shots to get 10. He doesn't seem to demand the ball. Even when Bosh was out, it's like if you didn't pass to him, he didn't really care. It's almost as if he's running from the fact that he's the best player on his team (when Bosh was out). I'm not a Bargnani apologist. I just don't think people understand European basketball and why Andrea could care less about getting double doubles. Yes, he will battle other teams for rebounds.. but he'll never try and outjump Bosh for a rebound. If Bosh and he are there, 90% of the time, it was like out of "respect" for Bosh he just moved aside and let him take it. It's silly how easily he could shut people up by just averaging 8 rebounds per game.

But this is an extremely moronic viewpoint, if this is what he believes. The defensive possession does not end until the rebound is secured. By not fighting for a rebound, he substantially reduces the probability that his own team will grab it. That is just dumb or lazy.

Bad habits die hard. You know Andrea was a 3 for the majority of his young life playing basketball. I don't think wing players have much of a rebounding responsibility in Italy (maybe).

[springz]

I see him take lots of quick bad pull ups

[novi13]

Plus to top it off, he over-commits to his man, no matter who it is. He is therefore more or less useless as a help defender and takes himself out of the picture as a rebounder. He actually has decent hops, he's quick, I don't think he has much of a second jump, and perhaps he lacks the potential to average 11-12 a game, but he can hit 9-10 very easily if he just moves a little closer to the basket and starts trying to bring that number up. We've seen 6 block games, 12 rebound games.. just need to see 2+9 CONSISTENTLY. If he gives us 19 points, 9 rebounds and 2 blocks per game, I would say he earns his right to have been number one overall.

[Ripp]

Bad habits die hard. You know Andrea was a 3 for the majority of his young life playing basketball. I don't think wing players have much of a rebounding responsibility in Italy (maybe).

Regardless of the reason, it is still a very stupid and selfish thing to do. When the ball goes up, all 10 players have a chance of getting the ball. By removing himself completely from the competition (perhaps out of some misplaced sense that someone else will get it), he puts additional pressure on the rest of his teammates to secure the rebound. Like, playing with a guy who refuses to rebound is extremely stressful and frustrating. I have no clue why you are trying to spin this as a virtue. I assume you have played basketball before and understand this dynamic, and thus strongly question your motives behind this.

[shmito17]

It's not selfish. He just doesn't seem to care about numbers at all.

He could be at 8 rebounds and he won't start chasing rebounds to get his double double. He could be at 8 points, he won't shoot bad shots to get 10. He doesn't seem to demand the ball. Even when Bosh was out, it's like if you didn't pass to him, he didn't really care. It's almost as if he's running from the fact that he's the best player on his team (when Bosh was out). I'm not a Bargnani apologist. I just don't think people understand European basketball and why Andrea could care less about getting double doubles. Yes, he will battle other teams for rebounds.. but he'll never try and outjump Bosh for a rebound. If Bosh and he are there, 90% of the time, it was like out of "respect" for Bosh he just moved aside and let him take it. It's silly how easily he could shut people up by just averaging 8 rebounds per game.

He doesn't seem to demand the ball? I wouldn't be so sure of that. By watching the games last year, I could definitely see him try to get in the post and ask for the ball. The problem was that there were no set plays to get him the ball. The ball would either go to Bosh in the post, or the ball would mysteriously get into the hands of Reggie which was mind-boggling.

Also, I don't get this "euro' mentality or 'nice guy' approach being attached to Bargnani. There is NO such thing as shoving yourself aside, out of respect, to let another teammate get a rebound. For his position, he damned well better get those rebounds. It comes down to a lack of will and determination. And just because Bosh is gone, does not necessarily mean he'll average those 8 boards/game. Let's just see if he's up to the challenge.