Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success?

[DonYon]

That type of attitude isn't to be questioned. You can change his statistical results without having him be a 'selfish player'

[Scott Carefoot]

I'm not particularly interested in weighing in on the whole Bargnani debate again, but if he can continue to shoot in the 38-40% range from beyond the arc, he can shoot as many treys as he wants. Some people like to rag on him for that part of his game for some reason, even though that's his biggest strength. It's his rebounding and help defence that concern me, especially if he's going to continue to play center.

[Ari]

Actually, this is the misconception. Bargnani made Bosh's life so much easier in a LOT of ways.

1. On offense, by stretching centers away from the basket, he allowed Bosh to work one on one on the wing/block area. By doing this, Bosh would generally see help from wings, not shot-blocking bigs. He would either take a jumper when the help came early enough or he would drive one on one if it came late... all the while Andrea has the opposing center at the free throw line ready to leak out to 3.

2. By being at the 3-point line, Andrea was generally back quickly on defense. Theoretically, big men are often last up and down the floor, but Andrea was often the first player back because he plays so far from the basket on offense. This allowed Bosh to work with a little less pressure.

3. Yes, he didn't quite rebound, but he did block out a lot. I'm not saying he did it always, I'm not saying he did it very well, but he tried to keep his man from getting the ball. This means Bosh.. again.. was not battling 2 people for rebounds, he was going 1-1 against the big Bargnani wasn't blocking out. Now, once in a while when the block out failed.. the Raptors would surrender a rebound because then .. yes.. Bargnani was a rebounding liability.. and I think he's just bad at tracking so he's opted to block his man out so Bosh can grab it. To see him however admittedly come out and say he's bad at it, and he needs to rebound more for someone with his body.. it makes me think he CAN and will make a dramatic jump next season.

This post is so ridiculous I'm only responding to it because it's Wednesday night and my kids are already in bed... Did you say Bargnani has really helped Bosh on offense, defense and rebounding or my eyes are lying to me? If you're saying Bargs helped by virtue of being in the line-up - sure I agree, that's better than playing 4 on 5 - but if you're saying this in comparison to how a Nb 1 pick caliber center should be expected to support a PF, you don't know what you're talking about. Bargs is the team C, and they didn't exactly take him off the street, do you understand? He has a role and should be doing more to fufil it. Enough with the excuses.

I have watched more Raptors games than anyone not being paid by the organisation should care to watch and I don't remember seeing much of this phenomenon I hear all the time, where opposing Cs are defending Bargs so tight at the 3-pt line that the defender is not on the defensive board for rebounds. There may be one play or two the whole game where this may seem the case following a made 3 by Bargnani but no team actually employs this strategy because Bargs does not make that shot consistently enough to force that adjustment. Bargs has an average of 4 3-pt attempts, 1.5 makes per game, does this warrant moving your center to contain Bargnani?

You know, that's what I like about the off-season. Most sports fans tend to forget how bad their team or favorite players sucked the previous year. They cling on that 10-game span in February when underachiving elements on their teams were riding a high of success and they think the potential is clearly there to do this over the long term. Let's face it, people. Bargs is a good player, he's probably gonna show a little more now with no clear Nb 1 option on the team (higher scoring avg, a couple more rebounds), but can some of you stop dreaming? The guy is entering his 5th year in the league, you think if we had a Hakeem Olajuwon on our hands, we wouldn't know it by now?

Sheesh. I want to see Bargs succeed, but I wonder what's the excuse will be next year. He struggled because that was his first year being the man. Or Triano still hates him and would rather run plays for Sonny Weems?

Whatever ''it'' is that a star player has when you come across one, Bargs does not have it. He has an interesting skill set for a big man which he could utilize to his advantage against so many Cs not equipped to defend him, but I have seen little so far to tell me he had figured it out. Peace out!

[Schad]

I'm not particularly interested in weighing in on the whole Bargnani debate again, but if he can continue to shoot in the 38-40% range from beyond the arc, he can shoot as many treys as he wants. Some people like to rag on him for that part of his game for some reason, even though that's his biggest strength. It's his rebounding and help defence that concern me, especially if he's going to continue to play center.

That's the problem: the strongest point of his game is shooting threes at a 37.6% career rate. That translates to a .564 TS%, which isn't bad, but it's only marginally above average from a scoring efficiency standpoint...if you're only a one-trick pony, it better be one hell of a trick, and being marginally above-average on catch-and-shoot threes doesn't qualify.

[Nothingface]

What kind of self respecting Canadian bloggist spells "centre", "center"?

I'm not particularly interested in weighing in on the whole Bargnani debate again, but if he can continue to shoot in the 38-40% range from beyond the arc, he can shoot as many treys as he wants. Some people like to rag on him for that part of his game for some reason, even though that's his biggest strength. It's his rebounding and help defence that concern me, especially if he's going to continue to play center.

[Nothingface]

I'm not particularly interested in weighing in on the whole Bargnani debate again, but if he can continue to shoot in the 38-40% range from beyond the arc, he can shoot as many treys as he wants. Some people like to rag on him for that part of his game for some reason, even though that's his biggest strength. It's his rebounding and help defence that concern me, especially if he's going to continue to play center.

That's the problem: the strongest point of his game is shooting threes at a 37.6% career rate. That translates to a .564 TS%, which isn't bad, but it's only marginally above average from a scoring efficiency standpoint...if you're only a one-trick pony, it better be one hell of a trick, and being marginally above-average on catch-and-shoot threes doesn't qualify.

You would rather he shot .560 TS% on two pointers? That would be a pretty good percentage...

A point is a point is a point.

[HeyJoe]

i'm a proud bargs basher and i think this thread is stupid

[Scott Carefoot]

What kind of self respecting Canadian bloggist spells "centre", "center"?

Surprisingly, you're the first person to call me on that after spelling it that way for eight years. I don't buy into a lot of the English/Canadian rules on spelling. I'll gladly type "Air Canada Centre" because that's the proper name. I don't dig on "centre" for the basketball or hockey position because I like to distinguish between buildings and sports positions. I'm also not a fan of the unnecessary extra "u" in "favourite" and "neighbour" and whatnot. Basically, I've had my own style guide since I started trying to create my own voice online. It's incredibly arrogant of me, but until an employer tells me to stop, I'm not going to change.

[HeyJoe]

What kind of self respecting Canadian bloggist spells "centre", "center"?

Surprisingly, you're the first person to call me on that after spelling it that way for eight years. I don't buy into a lot of the English/Canadian rules on spelling. I'll gladly type "Air Canada Centre" because that's the proper name. I don't dig on "centre" for the basketball or hockey position because I like to distinguish between buildings and sports positions. I'm also not a fan of the unnecessary extra "u" in "favourite" and "neighbour" and whatnot. Basically, I've had my own style guide since I started trying to create my own voice online. It's incredibly arrogant of me, but until an employer tells me to stop, I'm not going to change.

centre sounds too french

i use center

[MEDIC]

I don't agree that Bargnani's biggest strength is the 3 point shot. His most accurate jump shot seemed to be between 10-15 feet.

His 3 pointer is highly overrated. He's like a rollercoaster with it. He's either really hot for a while, or stone cold.

I remember there was a pretty good stretch last season when he couldn't hit a damn 3 pointer if his life depended on it. If was frustrating to watch. He was hitting 10 - 12 foot jumpshots with ease, driving to the basket & making layups with ease, but too often he was camping out at the 3 point line missing shots.

He has the ability to be a very efficient scorer within 15 feet. He doesn't need the 3 point shot.

[dagger]

What kind of self respecting Canadian bloggist spells "centre", "center"?

Surprisingly, you're the first person to call me on that after spelling it that way for eight years. I don't buy into a lot of the English/Canadian rules on spelling. I'll gladly type "Air Canada Centre" because that's the proper name. I don't dig on "centre" for the basketball or hockey position because I like to distinguish between buildings and sports positions. I'm also not a fan of the unnecessary extra "u" in "favourite" and "neighbour" and whatnot. Basically, I've had my own style guide since I started trying to create my own voice online. It's incredibly arrogant of me, but until an employer tells me to stop, I'm not going to change.

centre sounds too french

i use center

If you think it's French, you're ignorant. Even the US media spells it Air Canada Centre.

[Schad]

You would rather he shot .560 TS% on two pointers? That would be a pretty good percentage...

A point is a point is a point.

TS% =/= FG%. A field goal percentage of .560 is very good...a TS% for a big man of .560 isn't that good, because they tend to get a combination of easy buckets and free throw attempts. Bargs doesn't, and thus he's actually considerably less efficient inside the arc than outside. And that's a bad thing if he's to be a lead scorer.

[D-Wins-RingsIMO]

is OP serious? seriously gtfo.

You can't say he "gets out of the way so teammates can stat stuff defensive rebounds" when year in year out we're one of the **** rebounding teams in the league.

Fact - his DRB% sucks

you can't say he's always passing to Bosh instead of shooting

Fact - his AST% is pathetic

Likewise I don't understand why ppl bitch that he shoots so many 3's? He's a good 3pt shooter, he should be playing to his strengths. I never have a problem with him putting up a 3 ball.

[onemanwolfpack]

is OP serious? seriously gtfo.

You can't say he "gets out of the way so teammates can stat stuff defensive rebounds" when year in year out we're one of the **** rebounding teams in the league.

Fact - his DRB% sucks

you can't say he's always passing to Bosh instead of shooting

Fact - his AST% is pathetic

Likewise I don't understand why ppl bitch that he shoots so many 3's? He's a good 3pt shooter, he should be playing to his strengths. I never have a problem with him putting up a 3 ball.

FACT: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts9geuPWQvs[/youtube]

[JN]

Actually he would qualify as a selfish player. He is willing to do NONE of the intangible and unmeasurable things that help a team win, and being lazy on a team, is a very selfish attribute.

[springz]

Is it actually "Centre"?

[novi13]

This thread has once again become a Bargnani bash-fest.

People seem to forget the people that had to be removed from Bosh's path (ROSE, Mike James, Carter) for him to show some damn pride in individual accolades. Otherwise, he was pretty content differing as well. DeMar for instance wants it more than either of these 2 guys ever did in their first year.

It's what seperates a guy like Bosh and a guy like DeMarcus Cousins. A belief that "I have to play a certain way, or up to a certain standard, or within a certain role or I'm not happy". Bosh, if he had for instance averaged 18/8 would have probably been unhappy.. and would have voiced it.

People fail to understand how much this "reaching" for individual success inspires people to play better bball.. Now I know Andrea tips out more offensive rebounds where a lot of players just go up and get it with 2 hands and thus get the offensive rebound. I know he makes the pass that leads to the pass a lot as well. For a guy who get's dogged for doing none of the intangible things, you can say he does more of the not-so-big-man intangible things..such as ball movement. When was the last time the ball stuck in his hand. It always moves with a purpose.

I don't mean to sound condescending but people running their mouth off like I've just stated something insane are nothing more than stat-nuts.. which is my point, you define success by how many rebounds he gets, when theoretically, he's happier if while he's on the floor, rebounding improves.. it doesn't seem to matter to him if he's the one grabbing the boards.

I think he is a team player.. he seems to give the ball to the person with the hot hand, knows when to shoot/when to pass..as in he has good shot-selection, and yes, despite what some of you say, he's made more of an effort to play with his back to the basket than Bosh ever did.. he's aware of his weaknesses, may they have been defense, rebounding or something else.

I think he'll be close to an All-Star this season, just because he'll no longer view himself as a second banana. He'll be thrust into the same damn situation Bosh was in, in year 2.. except he's better than Bosh was in year 2, and older to boot, so he'll probably be thrust really into Bosh year 3 mode..and luckily for him he has enough talent around that he could be an MIP candidate. You can't expect to run plays for only ONE player and have all of the others just make plays off of broken plays.

Yes, I think Andrea did make Bosh's life easier. Had Bosh played next to a good rebounder, he would have never gotten to 20/10 a year ago..

Every player plays for something. Some play for money, some play for shoe deals, all star votes, some play to win. Some play for legacy.. a place among the greats.

To play like Garbo, Rasho..Anthony Parker.. these guys could give a **** less if they scored 2 points and the team won. You have seen these players and feel free to object. Andrea seems to be like them. Very reluctant to "get his". That's my point. When you get into the "I'm taking over, I'm going to get 20.10 tonight, I'm going to be an All-Star.." you fill up the stat sheet a bit better if you have some talent. Hopefully, if you're like Kobe/Durant.. your elevating your game also elevates the play of others around you. If you are like Bosh.. maybe you make others around you less effective, but the point is, there has to be a "PERSONAL" goal,and it seems Andrea's goals are all team oriented, with the occasional "i have to do this better".

I would just like him to set a few statistical goals to work towards. I know it's ridiculous but it's hard to hear about a guy getting bashed about being unsuccessful when his definition of success hasn't quite made it through customs yet.

[Kayjay]

I'm not the biggest proponent of Bargnani's game, but I wouldn't worry about his scoring efficiency next season. He's shooting fewer threes than ever and switching to a fairly money midpost game. I expect that trend to continue as the elbows free up with Bosh's departure.

He's a pretty comprehensive breakdown of his offensive stats for **** and giggles.

[Schad]

I don't mean to sound condescending but people running their mouth off like I've just stated something insane are nothing more than stat-nuts.. which is my point, you define success by how many rebounds he gets, when theoretically, he's happier if while he's on the floor, rebounding improves.. it doesn't seem to matter to him if he's the one grabbing the boards.

Which would be cool, if the rebounding improved with him on the court. It doesn't. It dropped by 1.5% defensively and 3.8% offensively, which means that he's unselfishly allowing the other team to get the ball.

[Kayjay]

That's not nearly as bad as I'd thought, actually.