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Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success?

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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#61 » by novi13 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:38 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
I don't mean to sound condescending but people running their mouth off like I've just stated something insane are nothing more than stat-nuts.. which is my point, you define success by how many rebounds he gets, when theoretically, he's happier if while he's on the floor, rebounding improves.. it doesn't seem to matter to him if he's the one grabbing the boards.


Which would be cool, if the rebounding improved with him on the court. It doesn't. It dropped by 1.5% defensively and 3.8% offensively, which means that he's unselfishly allowing the other team to get the ball.


Agreed. I don't deny that his method has not worked and will never work, I'm just identifying why I think he does it and the thought process behind it. People think the guy can't jump. He's the tallest player on the team (now, by about 2 inches), he's long, he's coordinated and he's fairly athletic. It just wasn't until last year when people (management) really got on him about this. Again, I can relate because I was a guard in high school and I was a TERRIBLE rebounder. I just made sure my man never got it because I figured the others can go 4 on 4 provided I box out. It's stupid but it made sense to me. Now that he understands that he has to grab rebounds, it's his job, no more Bosh to grab 12 a night, I think he can easily become a guy who grabs 8-10 most nights. I've seen him grab 8 in a half when he was motivated.

I think he's lazy sometimes yes. Much of his problems however can be blamed on his very passive nature.. his not being vocal.. but as MG once said, there's a lot inside. We've seen it in spurts, we've seen him man up against opposing players like Bosh never could.. so I don't think he's afraid of anyone, I think he just needs a kick in the pants once in a while to correct bad habits.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#62 » by darth_federer » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:40 am

We get it. You dont like Bosh. I think your points about how hes unselfish are off base. Thats just laziness and lack of caring.

As far as this taking over games stuff. He just doesnt have that mentality. Its what distinguishes the great players from the above average ones.

And Bosh makes players less effective? Jamario Moon, Anthony Parker, Mike James and TJ Ford did just fine playing next to the guy.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#63 » by bobbyp3588 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:42 am

LittleOzzy wrote:https://www.blogger.com/start


Man I wish I knew who you were in real life, Ozzy. I'm sure I'd want to punch you out at least 3 times a day. You're such an ass!

You should get a prescription for something that will make you relax and not be such a smart-ass/dick...prozac, maybe...I think the whole world might be a better place for it.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#64 » by Childs » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:54 am

Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success?

The answer is:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDQuBUy1dgo&feature=related[/youtube]
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#65 » by vini_vidi_vici » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:55 am

bobbyp3588 wrote:
LittleOzzy wrote:https://www.blogger.com/start


Man I wish I knew who you were in real life, Ozzy. I'm sure I'd want to punch you out at least 3 times a day. You're such an ass!

You should get a prescription for something that will make you relax and not be such a smart-ass/dick...prozac, maybe...I think the whole world might be a better place for it.



Instead of typing that out and getting banned, you should start a blog about your feelings over a internet NBA forum moderator. It will be as compelling as this thread of rehashed Bargnani debates about his Rebounding, with the added insight into his character. I cant believe it made it to 5 pages, until I saw its the same people talking the same thing over and over again.

Edit: I hate that people are actually speculating that they know his values. You know him from quotes, small interviews, and game footage. Thats your basis on on his supposed "valuing individual success". If you think hes a poor rebounder fine, we all see it. If you think its because of this weak notion he wants to defer because of his personality, thats a big leap. Players play to win, how you interpret that is up to you.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#66 » by Childs » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:57 am

bobbyp3588 wrote:
LittleOzzy wrote:https://www.blogger.com/start


Man I wish I knew who you were in real life, Ozzy. I'm sure I'd want to punch you out at least 3 times a day. You're such an ass!

You should get a prescription for something that will make you relax and not be such a smart-ass/dick...prozac, maybe...I think the whole world might be a better place for it.


Who knew a weblink could hurt so much. Chill
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#67 » by Ripp » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:00 am

Dunno why you are ragging on LittleOzzy....he is right. OP needs to get a blog for his crackpot ideas and random musings
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#68 » by ItsDanger » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:31 am

Well, I've watched plenty of Raps games and the OP is correct about 1 thing, Bargs does let his teammates grab the EASY rebounds (not the ones that are contested). WIth Bossh gone (who ate up those cheap rebounds like no tomorrow), he could get up to 8 rebs. Im more interested in him getting into the contested areas for rebounds rather than padding the stats.

Some people need the elephant in the room to leave in order to take charge. Lets see what happens before we condemn everything.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#69 » by strangespot » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:07 am

I don't think thats just a Bargnani "issue" but it translates to european basketball in general which is much more team oriented than NBA. NBA has the superior individual talents wheras more often than not, a teams success depends on the performance of one or maybe two main players.
Europeans do not worry as much about individual stats as north americans and there also aren't defined "franchise players" on euro teams.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#70 » by Kakapato » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:24 am

ItsDanger wrote:Well, I've watched plenty of Raps games and the OP is correct about 1 thing, Bargs does let his teammates grab the EASY rebounds (not the ones that are contested). WIth Bossh gone (who ate up those cheap rebounds like no tomorrow), he could get up to 8 rebs. Im more interested in him getting into the contested areas for rebounds rather than padding the stats.

Some people need the elephant in the room to leave in order to take charge. Lets see what happens before we condemn everything.


During an interview with the Italian press Andrea stated that he only want to grab the "important" rebounds, no the easy ones; he does not care about them.

This interview was made after the game in which Andrea did an awesome job during the last minutes of the match, grabbing some contested rebounds and blocking some shots.

Haters can say what they want (and I really don't care about they are saying) but it's CLEAR that Mr. Bosh had many rebounds served on a plate, above all the ones on FTs.

Finally, many times Andrea stated the he and Bosh helped each other with the spacing: this is an obvious thing then you are big and a good shooter. Andrea has more range than Bosh but of course he can't be double teamed on the 3p line, but this still opens space down low for Bosh. If Bosh is double teamed then he can kick away but usually he's very slow, while Andrea (used to european style of the game) usually recognizes that double team is coming and he moves the ball when it's not too late.

EDIT: during the interviews he usually talks about the team as "WE": he talk about himself only when he want to criticize himself (the "I know I had to improve" thing)
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#71 » by DasKoo » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:50 am

Boogie! wrote:rebounding is just something he sucks at. no hops, not enough effort to get position.

it's not about the hops, as far as white bigs go he's got a (half-) decent vertical — also, the effort level doesn't explain everything.

it's about the timing, and that's something you develop in your teen years. he was too busy playing the shooting guard to learn that, so he'll have to take some remedial courses…

from what I've seen so far in the NT, though, he looks to be focusing on his weaknesses: he's demanding the ball in the post, he's fighting for offensive boards and he's trying to deflect the ball coming from the weak side. his timing is often a split-second off, but that's at least partially due to the conditioning level — in the next few games we'll see if that improves.

by the way, this is the first time in five years he's playing under a real coach. from what I've been told, training sessions are done at a hectic pace… and the dude isn't afraid of getting into his players' faces if the need arises — "stop being a pussy or I'll f*** you in the a**!", quoted verbatim. also, he ate belinelli alive on the first session, who would've guessed he's lazy? ;)

(sadly, my source ended his stage with the NT coaching staff and now… no more sources. :( )
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#72 » by Fairview4Life » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:59 am

Schadenfreude wrote:I'd say that he's 9.10 points/100 on the defensive end away from putting it to rest, personally.


So you're saying there's a chance! I always knew you'd come around.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#73 » by Lionel Messi » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:18 am

novi13 wrote:It's not selfish. He just doesn't seem to care about numbers at all.

He could be at 8 rebounds and he won't start chasing rebounds to get his double double. He could be at 8 points, he won't shoot bad shots to get 10. He doesn't seem to demand the ball. Even when Bosh was out, it's like if you didn't pass to him, he didn't really care. It's almost as if he's running from the fact that he's the best player on his team (when Bosh was out). I'm not a Bargnani apologist. I just don't think people understand European basketball and why Andrea could care less about getting double doubles. Yes, he will battle other teams for rebounds.. but he'll never try and outjump Bosh for a rebound. If Bosh and he are there, 90% of the time, it was like out of "respect" for Bosh he just moved aside and let him take it. It's silly how easily he could shut people up by just averaging 8 rebounds per game.


Passive =/= Unselfish
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#74 » by supersub15 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:25 am

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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#75 » by Reignman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:29 pm

The title of this thread should be changed to "Will Bargnani ever learn to value team success?" and the OP should be deleted.

Bottom line, if Bargs valued team success he'd help his teammates by making a consistent effort on the glass and he'd reach out to the appropriate parties to learn the concept of help defense.

BTW, Bargnani himself stated that with his height/weight he should be grabbing 10 rebounds a game and that the only thing stopping him is a lack of effort / laziness.

The OP used to reach under his last alias and clearly he's still just as delusional as ever.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#76 » by Blade_Runner » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:36 pm

Reignman wrote:The title of this thread should be changed to "Will Bargnani ever learn to value team success?" and the OP should be deleted.

Bottom line, if Bargs valued team success he'd help his teammates by making a consistent effort on the glass and he'd reach out to the appropriate parties to learn the concept of help defense.

BTW, Bargnani himself stated that with his height/weight he should be grabbing 10 rebounds a game and that the only thing stopping him is a lack of effort / laziness.

The OP used to reach under his last alias and clearly he's still just as delusional as ever.


IMO individual success in the NBA is mainly measued with a nod to play in the ASG. So, what (miracle) is needed for AB to get there?
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#77 » by Reignman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:03 pm

Blade_Runner wrote:
Reignman wrote:The title of this thread should be changed to "Will Bargnani ever learn to value team success?" and the OP should be deleted.

Bottom line, if Bargs valued team success he'd help his teammates by making a consistent effort on the glass and he'd reach out to the appropriate parties to learn the concept of help defense.

BTW, Bargnani himself stated that with his height/weight he should be grabbing 10 rebounds a game and that the only thing stopping him is a lack of effort / laziness.

The OP used to reach under his last alias and clearly he's still just as delusional as ever.


IMO individual success in the NBA is mainly measued with a nod to play in the ASG. So, what (miracle) is needed for AB to get there?


For Bargnani to get in to the all-star game it's going to have to happen via the coaches pick. In order to impress the coaches he's going to have to improve his weakside defense and rebounding.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#78 » by strangespot » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:06 pm

Reignman wrote:The title of this thread should be changed to "Will Bargnani ever learn to value team success?" and the OP should be deleted.



Was it a team ? I saw lots of Raptor games the past few years... and surely didnt look like a team anyway, was all about one player.

Bargnani at least (compared to lots of his former and actual teammates in Toronto) has a championship to be proud of... and even if it was "only" the italian championship, he was part of a TEAM back then
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#79 » by Reignman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:12 pm

strangespot wrote:
Reignman wrote:The title of this thread should be changed to "Will Bargnani ever learn to value team success?" and the OP should be deleted.



Was it a team ? I saw lots of Raptor games the past few years... and surely didnt look like a team anyway, was all about one player.

Bargnani at least (compared to lots of his former and actual teammates in Toronto) has a championship to be proud of... and even if it was "only" the italian championship, he was part of a TEAM back then


Come on, aren't we reaching a bit here? I could say Bosh won a State HS Championship going 40-0 for Lincoln. Hell, he has an Olympic gold medal playing a key role.

Bottom line, a team is composed of a bunch of individuals. Each individual has to carry his weight / play his role in order for the team to succeed.
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Re: Will Bargnani ever learn to value individual success? 

Post#80 » by JN » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:27 pm

Blade_Runner wrote:
Reignman wrote:The title of this thread should be changed to "Will Bargnani ever learn to value team success?" and the OP should be deleted.

Bottom line, if Bargs valued team success he'd help his teammates by making a consistent effort on the glass and he'd reach out to the appropriate parties to learn the concept of help defense.

BTW, Bargnani himself stated that with his height/weight he should be grabbing 10 rebounds a game and that the only thing stopping him is a lack of effort / laziness.

The OP used to reach under his last alias and clearly he's still just as delusional as ever.


IMO individual success in the NBA is mainly measued with a nod to play in the ASG. So, what (miracle) is needed for AB to get there?


He needs to help the team win games. And many advances stats, show that he does not help teams win games, but instead lose more.

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