Shaq S&T for Marvin Williams?

mcfly1204 · Post #21 » by **mcfly1204** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:44 pm

Why not wait to post until you have something more than hearsay? You are like an impulsive, giddy, wannabe know-it-all child.

Pula_86 · Post #22 » by **Pula_86** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:16 pm

Heath balked at the idea that the Knicks have interest in a sign and trade for Shaq while believing that Shaq would almost certainly head to Atlanta. I think it makes sense for both teams as the Knicks and Hawks are thin at center.

I would love to sign and trade with the Knicks and add a player such as Chandler and perhaps a draft pick (although that would be a windfall for the Cavs). Lets hope that we are able to get some assets whether it be draft picks or young developmental players.

heathmalc · Post #23 » by **heathmalc** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:32 pm

Pula_86 wrote:Heath balked at the idea that the Knicks have interest in a sign and trade for Shaq while believing that Shaq would almost certainly head to Atlanta. I think it makes sense for both teams as the Knicks and Hawks are thin at center.

I would love to sign and trade with the Knicks and add a player such as Chandler and perhaps a draft pick (although that would be a windfall for the Cavs). Lets hope that we are able to get some assets whether it be draft picks or young developmental players.

Don't see where I "balked" at the idea. I just don't think it'd happen. I don't see New York giving up a young player for Shaq... and they have no picks for the next 4 decades. In addition, Shaq wants more than the type of salary that New York can send out in a trade. The Knicks do have $3,864,375 left in cap room, but again, they'd have to add a player to the deal... Chandler makes 2 million, Gallinari makes 3 million, and Douglas makes 1 million (Walker makes about 800K). I just dont see how the Knicks sell that trade to their fans...trading a young guy with potential, for a guy who is 38, wants more $ than they can really give them, and had problems trying to play with Amare in the Dantoni offense in Phoenix.

Yeah, it'd be great to get another young player for Shaq... but I just do not think that New York is a possibility. But who knows, they've made a million crap decisions over the last decade...what's to stop them from making another?

Personally, I think Shaq will either stay in Cleveland, or go to Miami with all the other ring-chasers.

azuresou1 · Post #24 » by **azuresou1** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:45 pm

Marvin Williams deal confirmed to be utter bull ****.

Knicks are not trading for Shaq. Even Isiah wouldn't trade for him.

Post #25 » by **B Mac** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:52 pm

mcfly1204 wrote:Why not wait to post until you have something more than hearsay? You are like an impulsive, giddy, wannabe know-it-all child.

Attack the post, not the poster.

In this case Heath just relayed what was posted on Twitter. Not his fault that a bunch of talk show hosts made up rumors.

mcfly1204 · Post #26 » by **mcfly1204** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:56 pm

B Mac wrote:
mcfly1204 wrote:Why not wait to post until you have something more than hearsay? You are like an impulsive, giddy, wannabe know-it-all child.

Attack the post, not the poster.

In this case Heath just relayed what was posted on Twitter. Not his fault that a bunch of talk show hosts made up rumors.

There is no attacking here. He is literally acting like an impulsive, giddy, wannabe know-it-all child so that he can be the one to "break some news." It is not helpful, it is clutter.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #27 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:41 am

All Heath did was relay information.

mcfly1204 · Post #28 » by **mcfly1204** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:48 pm

cavsfan_osiris wrote:All Heath did was relay information.

Misinformation.

D21 · Post #29 » by **D21** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:19 pm

cavsfan_osiris wrote:
mcfly1204 wrote:
cavsfan_osiris wrote:Are you serious?

I could see 16-18ppg. He seems like he would be a good fit in the system Scott is trying to install. He is big, athletic, a good defender, as well as a decent shooter.

Marvin Williams is not a decent shooter, not sure where you got that opinion from. We must have vastly different views on what a 'decent' shooter is. He's not even a good shooter from 3 point or midrange in my eyes.

He's not a guy who creates for himself and the Cavs don't have a PG who can make things easier for him. Not to mention his contract is terrible for what he has shown over his 5 years in the NBA.

D21 · Post #30 » by **D21** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:38 pm

cavsfan_osiris wrote:
mcfly1204 wrote:
cavsfan_osiris wrote:Are you serious?

I could see 16-18ppg. He seems like he would be a good fit in the system Scott is trying to install. He is big, athletic, a good defender, as well as a decent shooter.

Marvin Williams is not a decent shooter, not sure where you got that opinion from. We must have vastly different views on what a 'decent' shooter is. He's not even a good shooter from 3 point or midrange in my eyes.

He's not a guy who creates for himself and the Cavs don't have a PG who can make things easier for him. Not to mention his contract is terrible for what he has shown over his 5 years in the NBA.

- Not sure you have seen him play, especially on games he has opportunity to get a bigger role, something Woodson never gave him because of Smith and Joe, and even Childress before (Marvin was starting but not had plays for him), then Bibby and Horford.
Then Woodson gave lots of shots to Murray in 08-09 and more to Crawford in 09-10

So Marvin is one of the few high pick who did not come in a team where the coach give you the key, actually it was the 4th role.

- in 07-08, he had mid-range shot :

The long mid-range were good, and the short mid-range bad but mainly due to Marvin attacking the rim and you can see it on his FTs stats in 07-08 : more than 400 FTs in 80 games

then he developed a 3pts shot in 08-09, with only one area at 3pt in blue. Mid-range is also better (except the 4 shots in FTs area)

Still almost 5 FTAs per game

- Last season was not good, but with Woodson playing all ISO Joe or ISO Crawford, Marvin got nothing to play.

I am not saying it to show you he's a very good player, just that he's certainly better than what you said, and that Woodson always fighting for a contract and bad offense did not help Marvin to develop.
I also wouldn't trade him for Shaq. Signing Shaq with the MLE is OK, but not sending Marvin for him.

Post #31 » by **B Mac** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:10 pm

According to W&G Shaq to Atlanta is still very much in the works.

There are working on deals including Marvin Williams and deals without him.

Just thought Id bump this up in case anything breaks.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #32 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:44 pm

This guy is owed $30 million over the next 4 seasons. He's already had 5 seasons in a good situation to show what he can do and he's done nothing. Why in god's name should the Cavs be interested? Is Atl including a pick(s)? This can't be serious.

Pula_86 · Post #33 » by **Pula_86** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:20 pm

I honeslty think there is more incentive for a team such as Boston or even Orlando to go after Shaq. When looking at the East, the way to take out the Heat is with strong post players. Bosh is soft so as many big bodies as you throw out there will give your team an advantage. Boston probably is the best fit as they only have another 1-2 years left in them to make a run. I'm sure the Cavs would take back salary as long as there are future 1st round picks involved.

While a 1st round pick may not have a lot of value next year, if you acquire a pick in 2013 and beyond, that pick could be quite valuable.

tidho · Post #34 » by **tidho** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:56 pm

cavsfan_osiris wrote:This guy is owed $30 million over the next 4 seasons. He's already had 5 seasons in a good situation to show what he can do and he's done nothing. Why in god's name should the Cavs be interested? Is Atl including a pick(s)? This can't be serious.

Because our swing men rotation is Parker, Eyenga, J. Williams, and Moon?

Because we'd be giving up nothing but future cap (which won't attract high level free agents anyway) to get him.

Because he hasn't done 'nothing'. He hasn't lived up to being the #3 pick in theory, but he can play.

Because with his versatility he's a (very) poor man's LeBron in terms of skillset.

Because we're considering giving a contract to Joey Graham.

Because he's young enough to potentially turn it around with a change of scenary.

mcfly1204 · Post #35 » by **mcfly1204** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:46 pm

cavsfan_osiris wrote:This guy is owed $30 million over the next 4 seasons. He's already had 5 seasons in a good situation to show what he can do and he's done nothing. Why in god's name should the Cavs be interested? Is Atl including a pick(s)? This can't be serious.

I do not know if I would call Atlanta a good situation for Marvin. He has been playing with a ball dominate wing with limited offensive touches. He is big, athletic, a good defender, and should thrive in an uptempo offense. Yes, he has been underwhelming over the past 5 seasons, but he is also just 24 years old. He has not lived up to his current contract, but I think he could end up being a steal if he produces.

Hoops23 · Post #36 » by **Hoops23** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:15 am

The report says the Cavs wants Marvin Williams in a package for Shaq. The Hawks will only agree with the trade if the Cavs sweeten the deal.

Post #37 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:06 pm

I see no point in the Cavs sweetening this at all.

mcfly1204 · Post #38 » by **mcfly1204** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:53 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:I see no point in the Cavs sweetening this at all.

I do and I don't. I think there is a good chance that Marvin in Cleveland would turn into the player he was projected to be. That being said, what would be enough to sweeten the deal, cash, a 2nd round pick? He is not worth a first with that contract attached. I would be open to sending Moon with Shaq. It gives Atlanta an athletic SF that can hit some threes, all while being on a short, cheap contract.

azuresou1 · Post #39 » by **azuresou1** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:28 pm

Okay, Marvin will never be the player he was projected to be - a more athletic, bigger prime T-Mac? Yeah, not happening. That said, he still has the chance to develop into a decent second option - very good third option, like a Marion or AK47 a few years back. I don't think Shaq + a 2nd gets it done.

mcfly1204 · Post #40 » by **mcfly1204** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:39 pm

azuresou1 wrote:Okay, Marvin will never be the player he was projected to be - a more athletic, bigger prime T-Mac? Yeah, not happening. That said, he still has the chance to develop into a decent second option - very good third option, like a Marion or AK47 a few years back. I don't think Shaq + a 2nd gets it done.

I was thinking closer to a Danny Granger. 1st option on a bad team, ideally suited to be a second option on a contender.