Official Blue Jays/MLB Trade Deadline thread

[LBJSeizedMyID]

Kudos to AA for standing his ground. By him not moving guys for the sake of moving guys, he's told pretty much all the GM's he will not be played. This in itself should basically win him some respect in future trades. I'm not even sure if what I said made any sense

[aligator]

It makes a lot of sense. Besides that, the compensation draft picks should yield much better talent than anyone received yesterday in trade.

[augustine]

Tim Collins was traded by Atlanta at the deadline. Not sure what to make of that, weren't they high on him?

[Geddy]

it's a shame Pukelis went down after the trade deadline. I wonder if the red sox would have been willing to take Overjay off our hands.

[Hoopstarr]

I didn't like when JP would settle for picks because the team was trying to win, so losing guys like Burnett, Lilly, Escobar, etc, and getting no type of short-term gratification while Halladay was in his prime was a waste. In this case, yes it would have been nice to get a good A+ or Double-A prospect for Buck, Frasor, Gregg, etc, but if that type of offer was not available, then go for the extra picks. As I mentioned before, with the Jays now going overslot and signing many of their picks, the extra draft picks mean a lot more than they would have pre-Anthopoulous. The team is also rebuilding, so extra picks make more sense. They aren't trying to win with an elite pitcher (Roy) anymore.

I'm fine with it.

I think you're way overstating the "win with Roy" angle. MLB teams rarely dictate organizational strategy based on one player, regardless of how good he is. NBA teams do stuff like that, naturally.

[Hoopstarr]

it's a shame Pukelis went down after the trade deadline. I wonder if the red sox would have been willing to take Overjay off our hands.

They still can. In fact, they're more likely to than before. O'Bay will clear waivers easily and I'd just let him go for the salary relief alone. Then again, I bet AA asks for Kelly or something.

[Michael Bradley]

I didn't like when JP would settle for picks because the team was trying to win, so losing guys like Burnett, Lilly, Escobar, etc, and getting no type of short-term gratification while Halladay was in his prime was a waste. In this case, yes it would have been nice to get a good A+ or Double-A prospect for Buck, Frasor, Gregg, etc, but if that type of offer was not available, then go for the extra picks. As I mentioned before, with the Jays now going overslot and signing many of their picks, the extra draft picks mean a lot more than they would have pre-Anthopoulous. The team is also rebuilding, so extra picks make more sense. They aren't trying to win with an elite pitcher (Roy) anymore.

I'm fine with it.

I think you're way overstating the "win with Roy" angle. MLB teams rarely dictate organizational strategy based on one player, regardless of how good he is. NBA teams do stuff like that, naturally.

You can't really rebuild when you have the best pitcher in baseball, and I don't think ownership had any intention of rebuilding after 2005 (spending on Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, etc). Losing quality MLB talent and getting draft picks that are years and years away did not make sense for a team that had every intention to compete. If they wanted to rebuild they should have traded Roy after 2005 and not signed all of those vets to big contracts. Halladay alone was turning 70+ win teams into .500 or better teams.

When the Jays lost Lilly, Catalanotto, Speier, and Burnett since 2006, they got back Justin Jackson, Kevin Ahrens, Brett Cecil, Eric Eiland, Tystan Magnuson, James Paxton, and Jacob Marisnick. Only one guy from that list is contributing in the Majors, and he's doing so after Halladay was traded. Basically, they lost two #2-3 calibre starters and a set-up man and gained a bunch of question marks. None of that helped in an effort to win during their perceived window (2006-10). If they traded Burnett or Lilly or Speier for talent that could have contributed in 2007, 2008, or (in AJ's case) 2009/10, then the team may have been better off short-term. If not, well, they traded Halladay anyway.

In this case, Anthopoulous is in asset building stage. He has the makings of a very good young rotation locked up for two (Marcum) or more (Romero, Cecil, Morrow) years, and some solid offensive pieces, but he is not looking to win next year, so he can go for the draft picks. After 2005, if JPR was still valuing picks while Halladay was rotting away on the MLB roster and long-term contracts attached to veterans were taking up the majority of the team's committed payroll, then he was badly allocating his resources.

[Hoopstarr]

You can't really rebuild when you have the best pitcher in baseball, and I don't think ownership had any intention of rebuilding after 2005 (spending on Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, etc). Losing quality MLB talent and getting draft picks that are years and years away did not make sense for a team that had every intention to compete.

Trading them away didn't make much sense either because of the whole "illusion of contending" thing they had to maintain. Or maybe they tried trading them and set the asking prices high, as they should have, and weren't blown away, like what they did this year. But anyway, I just don't agree with the idea of pulling out all the stops to build around one player in baseball.

If they wanted to rebuild they should have traded Roy after 2005 and not signed all of those vets to big contracts. Halladay alone was turning 70+ win teams into .500 or better teams.

Trading Roy after 2005 would've been loony. I can't imagine how that would've went over with the fan base. If you get a money infusion with the promise of more to come, then you go for it. I've already shown that the Jays were a top 5 AL team from 06-08, whether with Doc or with an average starter. But even without the stats, just look at this year. This is at least an 80 win team with largely the same roster as last year.

[Michael Bradley]

Trading them away didn't make much sense either because of the whole "illusion of contending" thing they had to maintain. Or maybe they tried trading them and set the asking prices high, as they should have, and weren't blown away, like what they did this year. But anyway, I just don't agree with the idea of pulling out all the stops to build around one player in baseball.

The Jays were pretty much out of it by the trade deadline in 2008 (when they could have moved Burnett) and were very unlikely to make up the 6 game difference at the deadline in 2006 if they stuck with the same roster (they should have either traded for vet help or started selling pieces off). Doing nothing and then losing those players for picks resulted in the team scrambling to replace those vets the following year while only getting picks that would help (if at all) well after Roy's contract was up. Very counter-productive to what they were trying to do.

You can build around one player in baseball as long as that player is elite. It's not as important as in the NBA, but certainly it can be done. The Cardinals, for example, are not going to go on a lengthy rebuilding phase with Pujols on the roster. They'll make short-term moves to win with him because he is so great that the window will always be there as long as he's healthy and performing to his normal production. Same with Roy. You can't have a 2006-10 window to compete and then lose quality players for picks. Unless you have a great farm system to begin with, which the Jays did not. If they were in the AL Central, sure. Not the AL East.

Trading Roy after 2005 would've been loony. I can't imagine how that would've went over with the fan base. If you get a money infusion with the promise of more to come, then you go for it. I've already shown that the Jays were a top 5 AL team from 06-08, whether with Doc or with an average starter. But even without the stats, just look at this year. This is at least an 80 win team with largely the same roster as last year.

Absolutely trading Halladay after 2005 would have been foolish, but not pulling out all the stops to win with him ended up wasting his prime. My theory is either go for it or rebuild. The Jays under Ricciardi did a half-ass rebuild, followed by a half-ass "going for it", and it resulted in half-ass results. If the Jays had a legit chance to make the playoffs and missed out, then I can understand losing players for picks, but they were 6 games out (in July 2006) and 10 games out (in July 2008) and did absolutely nothing. They took the safe route of picks.

I wouldn't say this year is the same as previous years talent-wise. They have more rotation depth this season (basically 1 through 4 are performing like #2-3 starters.....Morrow has a 4.20 ERA since his 2nd start of the season) and have been a lot luckier staying healthy than in previous years (lack of Arnsberg?). They also have an everyday player hitting like an MVP (Bautista). Put Roy on this team and replace Tallet/Litsch/etc and it is a lot better than it is, maybe even up there with Boston. I think the only time Roy's supporting cast was any good was 2006 and 2008. They just needed more help, but never got it.

Regardless, now is a good time to go for picks. They are rebuilding and going overslot. From 2006-09? They should have made trades. Not bad trades, but at least made an attempt to get players that could help right away.