Image Image Image Image

Could Soriano have gotten a HR today ala Dawson in 1989?

User avatar
puma0821
Senior
Posts: 724
And1: 4
Joined: Feb 14, 2009
Location: Des Moines, IA

Could Soriano have gotten a HR today ala Dawson in 1989? 

Post#1 » by puma0821 » Mon Aug 2, 2010 3:56 am

So that play today in the ninth got me to thinking of back when I was an 8 yr old watching Andre Dawson hit his 21ts HR of the season in a very bizarre way:

http://www.tommcmahon.net/2008/08/in-baseball-its.html

[quote=]In Baseball, It's Not Enough For A Fielder To Catch The Ball. He Also Must Effect A Voluntary And Intentional Release Of The Ball

From Rich Marazzi in Baseball Digest:

When determining a catch of batted or thrown balls to record a putout, the fielder must have secure possession of the ball and the release of the ball must be "voluntary and intentional" (2.00). What is that all about?

Umpire Jim Evans explained, "So many people interpret release as something you do with the throwing arm, but in order to get possession of the ball in your throwing hand, you have to release it from the glove." Therefore it appears that slight movement of the glove hand might be all that is necessary to meet the voluntary release requirement as tong as a fielder has control of the ball. ...

Consider the following play that occurred on September 25, 1989, at Montreal where the Expos hosted the Cubs. In the top of the seventh inning, Andre Dawson of the Cubs hit a fly ball to left center that appeared to be caught by Dave Martinez.

The Expos' flychaser fell to the ground after making the catch and despite having the ball in his possession for up to five seconds, Martinez let it roll away and umpire Paul Runge ruled "no catch." Montreal outfielder Tim Raines picked up the ball and retrieved it while Dawson was circling the bases en route to an inside-the-park home run.

There is no doubt that Martinez satisfied the secure possession part of the rule, but since he fell down and dropped the ball despite holding on to it for five seconds, it was not ruled a legal catch because he was unable to voluntarily release the ball.

Oddly enough if Raines was able to take the ball out of Martinez's glove before it rolled away, that would have satisfied the voluntary release aspect of the rule.

Veteran umpire Joe Brinkman said, "We teach the students at my umpires' school that if you see a ball is in a (injured or fallen) player's glove, tell his teammate to pick the ball out of his glove."

I saw this play on TV and remembered it all these years because it was so odd. [quote=]

So I went back and looked at the play and after catching it Fowler falls to the ground and and keeps the ball in his glove for along time while rolling around on the ground. His teammates never take the ball out of his hand. Finally as he is getting up it looks like the ball just drops out of his glove then he drops his glove to the ground.

So my question is should this weird rule have applied today and more importantly did Soriano run it out all the way through home?

They didn't show it but my guess is that Soriano just walked back to the dugout rendering the rule moot.

I know since the beginning, I was yelling at the TV "Keep running! Keep running!" :D

Thoughts?
Mc Nutt in ya face, biatch!
SportsWorld
RealGM
Posts: 51,601
And1: 133
Joined: Dec 03, 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:
       

Re: Could Soriano have gotten a HR today ala Dawson in 1989? 

Post#2 » by SportsWorld » Mon Aug 2, 2010 4:08 am

Yeah I doubt Soriano rounded the bases. On the FSN Rocky Mountain coverage on mlb.com it looks like he clearly caught it and held on.
User avatar
puma0821
Senior
Posts: 724
And1: 4
Joined: Feb 14, 2009
Location: Des Moines, IA

Re: Could Soriano have gotten a HR today ala Dawson in 1989? 

Post#3 » by puma0821 » Mon Aug 2, 2010 4:25 am

SportsWorld wrote:Yeah I doubt Soriano rounded the bases. On the FSN Rocky Mountain coverage on mlb.com it looks like he clearly caught it and held on.


He did hold on (for like 30 seconds) but the key is whether he voluntarily released it? The camera on CSN didn't get a clear look but it almost looks like he lets the ball roll out of his glove right before he drops the glove as he rolls over. If he doesn't intetionally "flick" it but lets it roll out., then it seems involuntary. According to that article it seems it doesn't matter how long the player holds it for; he has to volunatarily release the ball.

Of course many things could have been different, Soriano runs and everyone notices so then they notify Fowler and he flips the ball out or someone takes it from the glove.
Mc Nutt in ya face, biatch!
goose102977
Ballboy
Posts: 1
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 02, 2010

Re: Could Soriano have gotten a HR today ala Dawson in 1989? 

Post#4 » by goose102977 » Tue Aug 3, 2010 5:21 pm

I am so happy someone else wondered this same thing. I have never forgotten that play in Montreal and thought the exact same thing when Fowler made that play on Sunday. I have asked many "experts" this question over the last 2 days to no avail. There is no doubt in my mind that Soriano could have rounded the bases for the inside the park home run, but expecting Soriano to know that rule...well, I doubt he was aware.

Return to Chicago Cubs