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Wow, this team is good.

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YFZblu
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Re: Wow, this team is good. 

Post#41 » by YFZblu » Fri Aug 6, 2010 9:00 pm

That being said, I do understand your point. Amare is not a good passer out of the double team and a lot of his turnovers come from him going into the ISO and getting stripped. Just the difference in their abilities to pass out of the defense (double or not) would explain the difference in Amare and those player's A:T ratios.


Well yeah, that's essentially my original point. He's extremely vulnerable in situations where he's asked to handle the basketball. I'm not even talking about as a playmaker for the team necessarily, simply handling the basketball for an extended period of time. Upon doing my research, I was actually pleasantly surprised by Amar'e's "Pass to turnover ratio", as reported by 82games.com. According to the site, his pass:to ratio is 2.1:1. Which to me, indicates that it isn't his passing which is the problem, its his ball-handling. Of course, we don't expect him to be performing double cross-overs or hesitation dribbles in transition, but he still needs to take care of the ball when he has it. IMO, he's one of the worse 'stars' in the NBA in that regard, regardless of position. Of course, I mentioned Dwight Howard in that regard earlier. I don't want to look like I'm singling Amar'e out here or that I'm hating. I would put Al Jefferson in the same category as a passer, although he's much improved these days--When guys like Amar'e, Dwight especially have the ball but aren't scoring, offensive cohesion is deteriorating every second they have the ball.

Of course, I do want to give Amar'e credit in respect to moving without the ball. By far and away, Amar'e Stoudemire is the best big man in the NBA at moving without the ball. He often finds himself in the right place at the right time and able to convert Nash's difficult-to-catch passes into points. Nash absolutely spoon feeds lots of guys, but anyone who thinks those zippers are easy to snatch is kidding themselves.

Good conversation--Much better than the board I currently frequent
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Re: Wow, this team is good. 

Post#42 » by lilfishi22 » Sat Aug 7, 2010 5:42 am

YFZblu wrote:Well yeah, that's essentially my original point. He's extremely vulnerable in situations where he's asked to handle the basketball. I'm not even talking about as a playmaker for the team necessarily, simply handling the basketball for an extended period of time. Upon doing my research, I was actually pleasantly surprised by Amar'e's "Pass to turnover ratio", as reported by 82games.com. According to the site, his pass:to ratio is 2.1:1. Which to me, indicates that it isn't his passing which is the problem, its his ball-handling. Of course, we don't expect him to be performing double cross-overs or hesitation dribbles in transition, but he still needs to take care of the ball when he has it. IMO, he's one of the worse 'stars' in the NBA in that regard, regardless of position. Of course, I mentioned Dwight Howard in that regard earlier. I don't want to look like I'm singling Amar'e out here or that I'm hating. I would put Al Jefferson in the same category as a passer, although he's much improved these days--When guys like Amar'e, Dwight especially have the ball but aren't scoring, offensive cohesion is deteriorating every second they have the ball.

Of course, I do want to give Amar'e credit in respect to moving without the ball. By far and away, Amar'e Stoudemire is the best big man in the NBA at moving without the ball. He often finds himself in the right place at the right time and able to convert Nash's difficult-to-catch passes into points. Nash absolutely spoon feeds lots of guys, but anyone who thinks those zippers are easy to snatch is kidding themselves.

Good conversation--Much better than the board I currently frequent


Yeah, it seems so. He's logged more ball-handling turnovers than any other types of turnover at 122. It just shows that when he does commit a turnover, it's more than likely committed when making a move, getting stuck and having the ball stripped, most likely by a help defender. It's a small ample space, but his 3PT assists accounts for close to half of his total assists which tells me when he does get the pass off, it's normally to an open 3 PT shooter. Just how our system was made to work. But sure, it hurts our team when he commits turnovers but even when he's not scoring he's taking it strong and drawing fouls, just how we want it. Amare drew fouls at a rate of 19.1% (fouls drawn/FGA) which is 2nd amongst the better PF in the league. Only Bosh drew fouls at a higher percentage than Amare at 19.5%.

Our offensive flow does suffer when Amare is holding the ball and isn't doing anything. I've noticed that a lot and was one of my biggest criticisms of his game earlier in the season. But as the season wore on, he made decisions quicker and either made the quick pass or made the move. Amare is also the best big man moving off the ball, without a doubt. When you play with Steve Nash you are expected to move and he's almost always in the right spot or where he wants to be when the ball does get to him. Hes quick and he's agile which is why he picks up so many cheap and easy points just slipping the screen. Amare probably also has one of the best hands for a big man in the game and if anyone thinks those Nash passes are easy to catch just because he's spoon-feeding Amare, they don't know basketball. Toe be able to see and catch the ball and reacting straight away after the catch is incredibly difficult. Ask any big man in any league how hard it is to catch a pass near the hoop, know where all the defenders are and where the hoop is exactly and they'll tell you.
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Re: Wow, this team is good. 

Post#43 » by RunDogGun » Sat Aug 7, 2010 7:32 am

YFZblu wrote:
That being said, I do understand your point. Amare is not a good passer out of the double team and a lot of his turnovers come from him going into the ISO and getting stripped. Just the difference in their abilities to pass out of the defense (double or not) would explain the difference in Amare and those player's A:T ratios.


Well yeah, that's essentially my original point. He's extremely vulnerable in situations where he's asked to handle the basketball. I'm not even talking about as a playmaker for the team necessarily, simply handling the basketball for an extended period of time. Upon doing my research, I was actually pleasantly surprised by Amar'e's "Pass to turnover ratio", as reported by 82games.com. According to the site, his pass:to ratio is 2.1:1. Which to me, indicates that it isn't his passing which is the problem, its his ball-handling. Of course, we don't expect him to be performing double cross-overs or hesitation dribbles in transition, but he still needs to take care of the ball when he has it. IMO, he's one of the worse 'stars' in the NBA in that regard, regardless of position. Of course, I mentioned Dwight Howard in that regard earlier. I don't want to look like I'm singling Amar'e out here or that I'm hating. I would put Al Jefferson in the same category as a passer, although he's much improved these days--When guys like Amar'e, Dwight especially have the ball but aren't scoring, offensive cohesion is deteriorating every second they have the ball.

Of course, I do want to give Amar'e credit in respect to moving without the ball. By far and away, Amar'e Stoudemire is the best big man in the NBA at moving without the ball. He often finds himself in the right place at the right time and able to convert Nash's difficult-to-catch passes into points. Nash absolutely spoon feeds lots of guys, but anyone who thinks those zippers are easy to snatch is kidding themselves.

Good conversation--Much better than the board I currently frequent


Good points. I felt last year, the team stood around more when Amare had the ball, but when they would make their occasional cuts to the hoop, Amare would just ignore them. I don't think teams were scared by Amare. The Spurs proved that you can allow Amare to score all he wants, it is Nash and company that are the problem.

I really am excited to see a team that plays smarter. I think we will find a more fluid offense. We have a ton of guys that can score, and knowing that we really don't have any ball stoppers, might make the team work that much harder.

I know I play that way on the court. If I know I will be rewarded for a good screen or a cut, will make me want to continue to do those things. If I set a great screen, and roll properly, and I am ignored for a tougher bad shot, I might not put myself out there the next time. I would say that the average NBA player is more of a baby than I am on the court. :D

We may not have a guy that will command a double team, but with the right screens and cuts, it really won't make a difference. Plus Amare sucked at passing out of that double, so it wouldn't matter if a shooter is wide open, if they never received the ball. :roll:

Now the defensive end will be the battle. If we have the whole team committing to play defense, we will do just as well as last year. Amare was often late to a perimeter shooter in our zone. Plus out of the zone, Amare would allow his man to set up too well for rebounds and put backs. If Hedo can keep his man from setting up too close, or boxout better than Amare (which isn't too hard, I can boxout better than Amare), we will see a better team rebounding than with Amare.

We'll have to wait and see. But we know for sure that this team lost two of the lowest basketball IQ players on the team, and added at least two smarter players.
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Re: Wow, this team is good. 

Post#44 » by janquinn » Sat Aug 7, 2010 5:47 pm

Biff wrote:What exactly did Amare give us in the Lakers series that our current crop won't be able to give? He was a damn bum that series.

How about 42points in a game
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Re: Wow, this team is good. 

Post#45 » by JMac1 » Sat Aug 7, 2010 10:15 pm

janquinn wrote:
Biff wrote:What exactly did Amare give us in the Lakers series that our current crop won't be able to give? He was a damn bum that series.

How about 42points in a game


How many did JRich put up against Portland??? Thats right. The Suns went as JRich went, not Amare. Shaq left, JRich got better, with Amare gone, JRich may be the man.

We need scoring, period. Doesn't matter where it comes from, inside or out. Amare defense will not be missed. LB's defense, shucking and jiving won't be missed. If the zone is effective throughout the season, Hedo won't hurt us at the 4. If not, start Frye or Warrick there.

Proven
Nash
JRich
Hedo
Frye
Lopez
Hill
Chill
Duds
Dragic
Warrick

Hopeful
Lawal
Clark
Janning

Tell me how this post isn't spot on.
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Re: Wow, this team is good. 

Post#46 » by DRK » Sun Aug 8, 2010 10:01 am

YFZblu wrote:
Da_Reel_Kboy wrote:I guess its not so much the output Amare has, but the psychological impact he has on other teams. Other team's defense know its AMARE STOUDEMIRE, a multiple All-Star and All-NBA Team member, which will make them a little scared.

Teams wont get scared by hearing the name "Hakim Warrick" or "Hedo Turkoglu." Amare's presence is as much felt in the basketball aspect of the game, as well as the psychological aspect of the game


Your sig indicates that you're considering a UserID change. Does this site permit that without resetting the post count? Not that I have many posts to preserve or boast about, I guess I'm just wondering for future reference...


Apparently name changing tool is suspended at the moment.. But I cant be bothered to change my sig.
MrMiyagi wrote:Lob to DA for the win
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Re: Wow, this team is good. 

Post#47 » by JasonDaPsycho » Sun Aug 8, 2010 10:32 am

Da_Reel_Kboy wrote:
YFZblu wrote:
Da_Reel_Kboy wrote:I guess its not so much the output Amare has, but the psychological impact he has on other teams. Other team's defense know its AMARE STOUDEMIRE, a multiple All-Star and All-NBA Team member, which will make them a little scared.

Teams wont get scared by hearing the name "Hakim Warrick" or "Hedo Turkoglu." Amare's presence is as much felt in the basketball aspect of the game, as well as the psychological aspect of the game


Your sig indicates that you're considering a UserID change. Does this site permit that without resetting the post count? Not that I have many posts to preserve or boast about, I guess I'm just wondering for future reference...


Apparently name changing tool is suspended at the moment.. But I cant be bothered to change my sig.

Change your name to HardlyEC if you have the chance. :lol:

OK, not funny...
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