Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[sfam]

Favors duplicates what we have in McGee (sort of). Blatche duplicates what the Nets have in Lopez (sort of).

I don't see this at all. Favors has the potential to be a Dwight Howard type. He's nothing like McGee. The interesting part about the trade is McGee would be our PF then, and might be able to give us offense from there. But I agree with Nate - the trade doesn't make real sense for either team right now.

[Dat2U]

Thing is we desperately need a guy like Favors. He's projects as an top notch low post defender & rebounder. I would have happily taken Elton Brand and given up McGee for him. I hate the idea of trading Blatche but I would do it for Favors. Yes he's raw, but I can't put enough emphasis on how much low post defense correlates with winning. What Favors brings to the table is more important than what Blatche brings.

Another thing to think about is that Blatche's great contract expires in two years, we'd at least have Favors under a rookie deal for the next four.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I am a huge Cousins fan as you know. Think he's better than Favors and no way would I have drafted Favors ahead of Demarcus. That said, Favors is going to be a stud. Maybe better in the long run than Cousins.

I wouldn't have any problem trading Andray for Derrick Favors because I think Favors will end up a cross between Josh Smith, Al Horford, and Dwight Howard. He's a super-athletic kid who is IIRC one year younger than Cousins. Favors is 5 years younger than Andray.

Favors is better coming out of Ga Tech than Bosh was coming out of Ga Tech.

The main thing Blatche has is his contract for his talent level that would make me reluctant to trade him for Favors.

One reason I pick the Nets to make the playoffs (probably a whack prediction since they won 12 games this past season) I because Favors is a huge upgrade at PF IMO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Favors duplicates what we have in McGee (sort of). Blatche duplicates what the Nets have in Lopez (sort of).

I don't see this at all. Favors has the potential to be a Dwight Howard type. He's nothing like McGee. The interesting part about the trade is McGee would be our PF then, and might be able to give us offense from there. But I agree with Nate - the trade doesn't make real sense for either team right now.

Yep. It is something maybe to revisit in a couple years.

[dangermouse]

Favors duplicates what we have in McGee (sort of). Blatche duplicates what the Nets have in Lopez (sort of).

I don't see this at all. Favors has the potential to be a Dwight Howard type. He's nothing like McGee. The interesting part about the trade is McGee would be our PF then, and might be able to give us offense from there. But I agree with Nate - the trade doesn't make real sense for either team right now.

If McGee bulked up he wouldnt have potential to be a Dwight Howard type?

[nate33]

Thing is we desperately need a guy like Favors. He's projects as an top notch low post defender & rebounder. I would have happily taken Elton Brand and given up McGee for him. I hate the idea of trading Blatche but I would do it for Favors. Yes he's raw, but I can't put enough emphasis on how much low post defense correlates with winning. What Favors brings to the table is more important than what Blatche brings.

I agree that it is essential to have one top notch low post defender, but those guys aren't impossible to find. Next summer, we could try and sign Perkins or Horford via free agency. Heck, even a guy like Dampier, Dalembert or Pryzbilla could be a stopgap solution. I'd rather keep Blatche and try to sign one of those guys.

[verbal8]

Favors duplicates what we have in McGee (sort of). Blatche duplicates what the Nets have in Lopez (sort of).

I don't see this at all. Favors has the potential to be a Dwight Howard type. He's nothing like McGee. The interesting part about the trade is McGee would be our PF then, and might be able to give us offense from there. But I agree with Nate - the trade doesn't make real sense for either team right now.

If McGee bulked up he wouldnt have potential to be a Dwight Howard type?

It is not about bulk, it is about positioning and attitude.

As offensive rebounders they are similar in their per minute production. However Howard is the best defensive rebounder the last 3 years, McGee is merely adequate(similar per minute to Blatche and Yi), which is very disappointing given his length and athletic ability.

Howard is a defender who blocks shots. McGee does block shots, but does not get in good position defensively. I think McGee has more potential than Howard offensively. At this point Howard is more effective because he gets to the line(10 fta/per 36 min), but McGee does not(4.3 fta/per 36 min).

I think there is a lot of potential with McGee, I just don't think at this point he is in the same conversation with Dwight Howard.

Looking at the stats and interesting comparable is Robin Lopez. I think defensively Lopez is a lot better than his stats and McGee is a lot worse. Also Lopez seems to be further along with developing a jumper, although they both take a similar amount.

[sfam]

Favors duplicates what we have in McGee (sort of). Blatche duplicates what the Nets have in Lopez (sort of).

I don't see this at all. Favors has the potential to be a Dwight Howard type. He's nothing like McGee. The interesting part about the trade is McGee would be our PF then, and might be able to give us offense from there. But I agree with Nate - the trade doesn't make real sense for either team right now.

If McGee bulked up he wouldnt have potential to be a Dwight Howard type?

Not in a million years. That's just not McGee's game...at all. And honestly, I don't see how it would be possible for him to bulk up to Howard size. He's more the jumping bean type. But if he can figure out when to jump and when to fight for position, he has the potential to be pretty special. Unfortunately, this problem isn't his athletics; its that gray stuff between his ears.

[dangermouse]

Hence the inclusion of the adjective 'potential'. I know what McGee's game is like now. I dont know why, if he were to bulk up, learn how to box out, develop some sort of instinct when it comes to rebounding, and learn when to try for the block instead of biting on every pump fake he sees, that he couldnt then be considered Howard-esque. He already has the hops, the height (slightly taller even) and like 1.5 post moves to utilize, offensive rebounding. I guess thats all the similarities now. You cant teach height and hops, but the rest you can teach.

Hes got a long way to go but I think things wil be a lot easier for him to learn and put into practice when he gets some meat on those bones in a couple of years.

As for now, someone just needs to sit him down with game tape and be like, "dude, youre 7'1" and i dont even know how long those beanpole arms are, you dont need to jump every time you think someones about to shoot. you barely need to jump at all. jam those lanky branches in the air and in their face, you might not get on the top ten plays every night but you will start effecting shooting perentages."

[LyricalRico]

I dont know why, if he were to bulk up, learn how to box out, develop some sort of instinct when it comes to rebounding, and learn when to try for the block instead of biting on every pump fake he sees, that he couldnt then be considered Howard-esque.

I'll tell you why - because that would be the most dramatic shift in a player's game in the history of sports. That's like saying Yi could be just like Charles Oakley if he hit the weights, worked on getting better position for more rebounds, became more aggressive and physical on defense, and got a really deep tan. I mean, he's already got the size and shooting touch. The rest of the stuff you can teach, right? Wrong.

I understand you're just thinking out loud and wondering what the possibilities are. But that really is wishful thinking. I think many folks around here are coming to grips with the fact that, regardless of what his physical gifts may be, JaVale McGee has limitations to his game and also likely has limits on how much he's going to improve due to factors regarding his attitude and the influence of his mother.

For those reasons, I don't ever expect him to be a "great" player. I think "capable starter" is probably his ceiling, with some sick highlights sprinkled in. And that's still darn good for #18 pick.

[doclinkin]

someone just needs to sit him down with game tape and be like, "dude, youre 7'1" and i dont even know how long those beanpole arms are, you dont need to jump every time you think someones about to shoot. you barely need to jump at all. jam those lanky branches in the air and in their face, you might not get on the top ten plays every night but you will start effecting shooting perentages."

Somebody (Sammy) clearly already has. He blocked few shots in summerleague, didn't even try for them much, and thus posted far fewer fouls than he had in years past. I suspect Cassell has been riding him on the topic for some time. Can't tune out Sam Cassell, dude will not let go of a topic and he ain't gonna forget. He takes it personally if you don't pay attention.

Hes got a long way to go but I think things wil be a lot easier for him to learn and put into practice when he gets some meat on those bones in a couple of years.

I agree with this. I think he's scared of the paint because until relatively recently he's always been scrawny, with a high center of gravity. Dumptruck powerforwards have been a danger to him, able to leverage him out of position and providing a fulcrum for him to topple over if he goes up for a board. That's a long way to fall.

But he's not congenitally permanently underweight like Shawn Bradley or many beanpole bigs. He's the child of two tall sturdy athletes, his frame will take muscle weight, his legs will thicken and he'll begin to build real man muscle once he's done getting tall. You can already see it happen compared to his freshman year playing behind Nick Fazekas.

Once he gets bully strength I predict he'll begin to appreciate the idea that he's bigger than most, and can occasionally hold position or step through an opponent to knock 'em out the way. That's when you start to enjoy the battle underneath. When you can make the other guy nervous.

Remember, everybody admires Brendan Haywood now, and appreciates his contribution to the team, but early on he earned the Brenda epithet by shying away from contact. I recall watching him realize that he was bigger than everybody (in part I think from playing against Etan in practice) and deciding to throw his weight around a bit. No momma's boy. I suspect we'll see JaVale enjoy his advantages in the post as well, but it may not come until he loses some of his aerial ability in favor of more power in the legs, and discovers that with extra muscle he can finish after contact. Pick up highlights in the low block, not just in the open court.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I believe Wizard camp will be the start of the transformation with McGee. doc, I don't see how McGee can avoid contact now.

Javale's going to realize he's taller and the encumbent to Seraphin. McGee going to try to give a tough Seraphin the rookie treatment. He's going to bring it in practice against Yi. That guy is one McGee won't shy away from. Hamady is his size but Javale appears to be stronger and is much more explosive. Armstrong's a journeyman. Javale will dunk on Bookers head.

McGee is having all kinds of success this summer and when camp starts he's probably going to try to be the bully, which will be a good thing. Things were different last season with Haywood as a gruff bastard Javale had to be a bit scared of. Oberto also had the edge in guile and international tough play. Those guys being older, wiser, and tougher; along with Andray Blatche took it to McGee I believe for sure.

This season, Javale's the veteran and the star compared to the newbies.

[Induveca]

Bulking up for these guys is extremely difficult for most due to the massive amounts of cardio they put in daily. Hard to gain muscle in that scenario no matter how much weight you lift.

That level of card is catabolic by nature. The only time they can bulk up is in the offseason with little card, tons of protein, daily hardcore weight lifting sessions and a damn good trainer. If the Wiz provided this for him it could happen, if he was left to do it on his own.....unlikely.

Eating tons of pasta and bench presses isn't enough. All about protein/good carbs and rest.....zero alcohol etc. In all honesty the more serious I've become about training the more convinced I am Karl Malone was on some serious steroids. Doing 15-20 hours of basketball type cardio a week and still having that size is really unnatural. Same with LeBron James.

If I layoff weight training for elliptical or jogging for just a week the differences are apparent.

[Illuminaire]

I've always wondered why more teams don't have full-time nutritional specialists and a trainer who is basically on call for the first and second year players. If I ran a team, I'd be telling those boys how to eat and workout every day of the week.

[Bickerstaff]

I've always wondered why more teams don't have full-time nutritional specialists and a trainer who is basically on call for the first and second year players. If I ran a team, I'd be telling those boys how to eat and workout every day of the week.

True, but if I were a professional athlete, I think I'd make it a priority on my own, too.

[montestewart]

I've always wondered why more teams don't have full-time nutritional specialists and a trainer who is basically on call for the first and second year players. If I ran a team, I'd be telling those boys how to eat and workout every day of the week.

True, but if I were a professional athlete, I think I'd make it a priority on my own, too.

Yep, and the best ones generally are out in front as far as training and nutrition, the occasional Shaq notwithstanding. When teams are drafting for potential, however, sometimes it seems like they don't do as much as they could after the draft to try and maximize that potential by giving closer guidance to young players that are often quite immature in basketball and life. Protecting the investment, so to speak. I don't follow the Capitals, but I wouldn't be surprised if Leonsis is already attuned to that kind of thinking.

[nate33]

Yup, Leonsis get it. I remember reading an article recently that said that Leonsis has already added a kitchen to the training facility. The players can now get good, healthy meals on demand. I'm sure that the kitchen has consulted with the training staff to make available the right kind of high protein food.

[Illuminaire]

Yep, and the best ones generally are out in front as far as training and nutrition, the occasional Shaq notwithstanding. When teams are drafting for potential, however, sometimes it seems like they don't do as much as they could after the draft to try and maximize that potential by giving closer guidance to young players that are often quite immature in basketball and life. Protecting the investment, so to speak. I don't follow the Capitals, but I wouldn't be surprised if Leonsis is already attuned to that kind of thinking.

This. Even well intentioned young players simply won't know HOW to take care of their bodies properly, even if they want to. Equipping them to succeed on the highest level should include training them in off-court maintenance too.

Nate - Really? Excellent. I hadn't heard that. Any news on our much maligned medical team?

[Hoopalotta]

Any news on our much maligned medical team?

New blade for the bone-saw is what I heard.

[sfam]

Any news on our much maligned medical team?

New blade for the bone-saw is what I heard.

I heard they upgraded the leeches to the more productive East Asian variety. They should be able to bleed out the injuries far faster now.